i still dont agree. id rather slowly damage my pack than have no house.

I hook up my packs to the balancer before I start the charge. If they are really close to being balanced, I start the charge. If they are a little off, I wait until they are really close before starting to charge. Either way, I balance everytime.

I can see where apogee is coming from. I don't balance every time. I think it depends on how many cells that are in the pack. I did see a new esc somewhere that plugged into the balancing plug to use all the cells voltage appropriately or something.

How can Apogee say you never have to balance , doesn't make sense .

I know myself when checking the batteries sometimes they are slightly out of balance and on the rare occasion when not run for a while are more out of balance .

Isn't what they are saying dangerous ?

start rant

Come on guys, did you read this quote or just skim it cuz it doesn't seem like you're getting the point here.

No where in the quote does Apogee state that you don't have to balance un-matched cells sold by other manufacturers as they don't speak for other manufacturers but what they do say is that you don't have to balance Apogee cells. I can attest to this as I have never balanced my Apogee cells and after 25 runs they are still balanced. However, I have Kokam and maxamps packs and I do have to balance them as I too don't want to burn down my house. The point Apogee is making is that other manufacturers either don't know how or won't spend the money to make quality matched packs that won't become unbalanced thus the entire balancing market is basically a big rip off to the end users because the end user must buy extra devices to correct the crappy un-matched packes sold by (enter manufacturer name here).

Another thing to note is that Apogee packs are made of Lithium Manganese which does not cause thermal run away so if you did puff an Apogee pack... oh well.

Apogee packs don't cost much more than other brands and they don't require balancing and they have never caught fire due to thermal run away.

If I had to start over, I would have only bought Apogee packs as I'd rather pay a little more than pay less and constantly worry about my lipo packs bursting into flames from a cell getting over charged/discharged.

/end rant

I thought cell phone batterys were lithium manganese and 3.6v max.. Apogee seem to be 4.2v peak. Strange they dont make anything higher than a 3s and 20c max. Doesnt say anything about weight. How heavy is one of your packs relatively ?

I'm not positive about cell phone batts but I think they are Lithium Ion cells like Laptops. Laptops and cell phones can get away with using lower C capacity cells because they do not require the const current a vehicle does.

As far as the Apogee packs available, it depends on what mAh Apogee packs you're looking at. The 5800 mAh are only available up to 3S but the 2200 mAh and 3800 mAh are both available up to 6S.

I run 2x 4S 2200mAh in series or parrallel depending on the vehicle and each pack weighs approx 8oz.

I may run 6S2P 2200mAh in my 8th scale whenever the MMM shows up.

I run FP packs exclusivly and I use a Hyperion 0610i charger with a builtin balancer so it is no extra effort to balance while charging, but I have tried charging and not balancing for about 3 charges and than tried to balance and only minimal discharging was needed

I use the 610iDuo and charge and balance my collection of Neu 30c 5ah packs each time. Never tried it not balancing. Never tried just balancing after charging. I just stick with whats working lol... those apogee are interesting ! Sound like a safer lipo. Maybe ill try a couple for my nephews who want to get into RC more. As it stands I have to charge/balance, hook it up in the car, turn it on etc. New stuff that makes it easier would be nice to feel better about letting them do it on their own. These kids are complete nintendo generation mindset. I had them mow the back yard and the mowed my hose, an extension cord and eventually the pull cord to the mower. No common sense lol Some apogee with a built in LVC like the trinity lipro's would be a real nice option.

Apogee is spot on for normal use. Even packs that are not very well matched will be in balance when ful if they started out that way.

I won't say that I never balance, but do check my packs at least once or twice a year. If they need it then they get it.

The nice thing about balancing every time is that it desn't hurt anything.

Yah.. don't want to risk expensive $200-500 packs you know.. I balance each/every time I charge... no matter what...:yes:

Exactly!

what is the range to be considered in balance? Example, within 0.0-0.1 volt difference, 0.0-0.05, or 0.0-0.01 between cells?

Also if using a voltmeter to varify the voltage readings on the cells would I touch the red voltmeter probe to the red balance wire and black to each of the black ones?

I'd shoot for 0.01-0.05v between cells. 0.1v is too much.

To measure each cell:
Cell 1-Red probe to red wire and black probe to 1st black wire next to the red one.
Cell 2-Red probe to 1st black wire next to the red one and black probe to 2nd black wire.
Cell 3-Red proble to 2nd blac wire and black probe to 3rd black wire.
And so on...