I stand corrected Finnster. At least about the volcano data.

I assure you I am not a member of any oil families, Chavez's buddy or otherwise :)

The points I should have made are as follows....

1. Why is it we are collectively so willing to toe the line whenever media/gov't (I use a slash there because they are practically one in the same) tells us we need to do this or that or the earth will combust beneath our very feet and swallow us up?

2. The vast majority are swayed by theory, and often theory alone, never one giving a thought to the possiblity that we are all being manipulated for someone's gain (namely power) and I will admit that many of the "facts" are simply unproveable... and that goes fo both sides of the fence.

3. Do many of us realize the 'demons' are constantly being morphed to fit someone's agenda... example, communism was once the scourge of the earth, then we had Perestroika. All peace and love once again.... oh no wait, we can't have humans coexisting peacefully... terrorism will become the new communism! And it's so much better cuz you can't put a face on it, the perfect excuse to be at war with anyone we please, because someone within some nations borders might have access to something dangerous....

The same applies to constantly changing enviro-threats, this fire-first, ask questions later attitude that has done just SO much for the planet, you know?

Science has a very nasty habit of reinventing itself periodically when enough people realize the old theories were ludicrous- think flat-earthers, are you going to stake your life on that?

I sure as f*ck ain't.

Finnster, this is in no way directed at you... and you had some great points!

Just stating my peace.

I don't have the answers, that is for sure.

One more quick thing, I am not a GW "denier", it is fairly obvious we are in a warming trend. The question at hand is, are humans to blame- and by that I mean you.

What is the average age of RCMer?

20? 25?

Let's go with 25, you are 25 years old and you are being told that, in your 25 years here you have personally managed to detroy a planet billions of years old!

Nevermind that most thirdworld countries still have no emission standards, or regulations. But it's damn sure YOUR fault. What with that nasty horrible 4 cylinder Hyundai of and your totally unneccesary trips to work, the supermarket, daycare, etc.

YOU YOU YOU!

You buyin it?

Finnster, on average Volcanoes emit 130 million tons of co2 yearly, much less than the 30 billion tons that is said humans emit yearly. But what discovery Chanel wont tell you is that volcanoes produce a cooling effect to the atmosphere. here are three examples:

*in 1991, when Mt. Pinatubo in the Philippines erupted, spewing millions of tons of volcanic gasses into the atmosphere, which caused the world’s average temperatures to fall by about 3.8 degrees Fahrenheit that year.

*1883 eruption of Indonesia’a Krakatoa, produced a similar effect, cooling the globe by about 4.2 degrees and producing spectacular sunsets around the world, such as the one that it said to have inspired Norwegian artist Edvard Munch’s famous series of expressionist paintings titled “The Scream.”

*Mt. Tambora, in 1815. This explosion, thought to be four times larger than Krakatoa’s and the largest eruption in 10,000 years, resulted in snow and frost in New England and Europe in May, June, and July, causing widespread crop failures and famine. That year became known as “The Year Without a Summer.”

So with so much co2 about, why are we still getting hotter?......maybe, just maybe its because co2 is not the leading factor in global warming! according to the statistics I should be shoveling snow in july. look at the graph, temp follows sunspots way more than it does co2

http://www.friendsofscience.org/asse...bal%20temp.jpg

exactly why it's really pointless to do anything. I mean, I prefer to be part of the solution rather than part of the problem, but the majority are sheep and believe what they are spoon fed and are too damn lazy to be part of the solution. there's the thinkers, the majority, and the window lickers.The thinkers are such a minority that no matter how much effort we put forth the rest will suck our resources with no real contribution to anything other than over populating the earth. so what's the answer?:neutral:

JT, NY has had probably the mildest summer I can remember.

Most people who haven't been to NY think it's a cold crappy place (which is mostly true) but our summers can be torturous, and the last few have been.... I find it funny that the locals will strike up a comment about "mussbe that globalwarmin' crap"

I haven't heard any such comments this year, and I'm actally loving the fact we're not being 'saunatized' at all so far.

A very nice change- and believe me I DO know what you're dealing with ath the moment!

Well tried not to get insulting, but did throw in a bit of ironic facetiousness for effect. :)

I know I've done more than my share of contributing to whatever CO2 is up there. I dont think anyone is trying to point fingers in any of the debate, and if they are, shame on them.

Redshift - yeah, I know you guys typically get the extremes in both summer and winter - and yes I saw the report last night about your 70 degree weather that you stole from us!! Enjoy it buddy!

I kinda like the stance that T. Boone Pickins is taking - if you have seen his site on trying to not just get away from dependance on foreign oil, but trying to eliminate our dependance on oil period.

Since someone mentioned age, most you dont know that EVERY single president since Nixon has campaigned with one of his mottos being"eliminate our dependance on foreign oil". Not a one of them has done so - or even improved it yet. Mr. 'Bama has at least put down a line in the sand, and I like that his words were "reduce our dependance on oil...not just foriegn oil."

Someone said that 15 cruise ships create more emissions than we (I assume you meant Americans, or did you mean world wide?). If you meant Americans, that would mean they would have to pollute more than approx 4 million gallons of burned up gas a day (for US only), or 16 million worldwide. I dont think so...

I tend to tune into shows like Frontline to get unbiased reporting on issues - and yes, Discovery/PBS/Science Channel will tell you the whole story - you just have to stay awake through the whole damn show!

I also dont see the conspiracy theory crap either (exception being the carbon credit fauxpaux - and the early investors in that are going to loose thier shorts in that).

Science doesnt change - opinions do. Real science is based on facts and research. Thats why it takes so long to wade through all the crap to find the facts. I think everyone is past the Al Gore hype stage now, and wants the real data.

Global warming or not, our dependance on fossil fuels is going to change - likely more due to price of fuel and availability than anything else. China will come around I believe - thier younger generation will slowly start to influence the political ranks (I hope).

Thank you for mentioning the stance of our 'campaigning' presidents.... and yes that is just sad- more proof that were it really up to us, it would have happened long ago. My god think what a different place this would be if TrickyDick would have made it happen.

JT, public radio and tele are absolutely NOT unbiased. Look at the handful of foundations that contribute the most, Nothing is unbiased, myself included. And yes the bore meter goes straight to coma for most....

I am ALL for alt. energy, and we need to take Tesla's research to task, to name just one of the true pioneers.

I would drop my ICE car and motorcycle like a hot rock, the complexity of our vehicles is insane.

And did we really need another reason to kick nitro to the curb?

:lol:

thats a reaaaly bad example...:neutral:

How so? It just illustrates that few really know the real answer, but it's easy to point fingers once given a convenient scapegoat.

I can see where whitrzac is coming from, but there have been more than one lifetime smoker who has died of old age.....

I took Brian's point to mean that even the most likely scenario, is not automatically the ACTUAL scenario, And if that is what you meant Brian, I wholeheartedly agree......

Yes, that's what I meant.