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-   -   Lipo Battery Standards, open discussion (https://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11737)

BrianG 01.20.2009 04:43 PM

On the topic of physical size: It would be nice to know the exact dimensions of the packs. I've seen a couple of times where the pack is spec'd at X mm, but when they arrive, they are actually X+2 mm. I understand the end where the connections are can vary somewhat, but at the very least, round UP. I would much rather add a thin piece of foam to make them fit right than to rebuild (or re-order) a new tray.

johnrobholmes 01.20.2009 05:06 PM

I had that happen with some packs recently. Ordered the Elite packs, had Mike make a tray, and the pack was about 3mm wider than stated.

BrianG 01.20.2009 06:34 PM

In my case, it was the end where the connections are. Like I said, that can be accepted I suppose, but to be off on the width?? Did they use extra thick heatshrink or something? That is unacceptable, especially that much; 3mm is just about 1/8"!

Of course all packs can't be measured, but come on! Just measure the largest one, and add 1 or 2 mm just to be safe.

Funny you should mention Elite, I just got my 3s 3300mAh packs in today. They are advertised as being 135 X 45 X 19.5. They measure at 140 X 48 X 22. Hmm, that's quite a bit off! Luckily my tray will allow this discrepancy! Then again, these were supposed to be 30C cells, but the packs I got say 35C. They don't have 35C 3300mAh cells on their site, so these are either new versions, or they just bumped the rating...

FireWire79 01.20.2009 08:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianG (Post 167857)
Results

Using the results from these tests/graphs, manufacturers could then rate batteries using something like:

This pack is rated for 20C continous with no less than 3.4v (for 90% of the cycle) @ no higher than 120*F temperature.
This pack is rated for 30C burst with no less than 3.2v (for 90% of the cycle) @ no higher than 130*F temperature.

As a calibrator (someone who measures things, like voltages, for a living to test for accuracy and consistency) I really like the sound of that. Precise, consistent, and most importantly, repeatable.

BrianG 01.20.2009 10:02 PM

@FireWire79: A little off topic, but can you calibrate a multimeter? I have a Fluke 97 that needs to be calibrated as it's been a few years.

I then use this calibrated meter to in turn calibrate my other cheaper meters. Not perfect, but better than nothing.

FireWire79 01.20.2009 10:56 PM

As I matter of fact I can, and do. I'm glad to know that you know that multimeters need to be calibrated. Sorry for being off track, I was still on page one and didn't really bother to read the rest of the post. That is really unusual for me, sorry about that.

I just wish that NIST would get involved in determining "C" ratings. There needs to be some sort of international standard to determine what a "C" is and how its measured. Otherwise I am going to start buying 15C cells and selling them a 1.5H cells and just say that H is better than C. Until there is some sort of standard as to what a "C" really is, we need to be using accepted standards like voltage, watts, internal resistance, and mAH capacity. These can be tested by anyone with accepted standards and are quantifiable.

Sorry, I go on rants sometimes. I know that people generally don't know who/what NIST is, and what the deuce is a standard. BTW a standard is a piece of equipment that is used to measure other measuring devices. IE a really specific multimeter that is used to test other multimeters. Something like I use reads 1.002493mA when the multimeter you use reads 1.0ma. This ensures that your multimeter is accurate. And that is what I do for a living.

BTW, if I can get some standards that are accepted I would love to start doing some empirical testing on LiPo batteries.

FireWire79 01.20.2009 11:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianG (Post 167924)
I could make the time, but don't have the resources.

If I was to do it, I'd probably get a bunch of dummy loads and put them in combinations of parallel configs to get the approximate load needed. Then, hook the cell up to an Eagletree (or something similar) and measure voltages and temps in 10 second intervals for the continuous test, and 10-50 milli-second intervals for the burst test (to capture the 0.5s pulse readings). This is assuming the ET device can be modded to handle higher currents without insertion losses (only being used for voltage). Also, I assume the raw data can be saved? Need those for custom calculations and graphs.

That said, what reseller is going to go on the word of just some dude doing these tests in their basement? I was thinking more of an already established third party testing company.

Just an afterthought. Look into a calibration company to do the testing that you are looking for. They are certified and inspected by NIST on a regular basis, have extensive, and expensive test equipment, and tons of dummy loads, as well as be able to provide you the raw data and what their findings are.

Not a lot of people know about calibration so it is overlooked. But this may be the way to go. Like I said, just an afterthought.


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