I think that you also have to consider is this: Reverse engineering still costs money and time, and you have to commit a CNC machine to an amount of that time as well. You'll get wastage and allsorts of setbacks.
Now, to us die-hard enthusiasts that doen't seem like an obstacle because "If you make them we will buy", but we are just a few guys. To recover costs and to make this stuff actually pay, UE, RCM, whomever, have to sell A LOT.
This is why Robin got into trouble and said it wasn't paying. His gear is/was so high quality and used the best materials that his prices were understandably high and therefore an easy target to be ousted by cheapo outfits like GPM etc. Now of course you have a whole raft of companies selling MAxx stuff so now the average man/boy on the street who wants alloy for his Maxx Wouldn't buy UE if it was in stock. Why would he ? Even if he knows the stuff is the best, the price was just toooo much for him to justify it.

I know UE is the best, what I'm saying is that it's not as easy to make this stuff sell as you would think. If we RCM Maxx owners all committed to buying a full set of setback suspension from Mike if he made them, he'd still lose out. It's mainstream sales that's needed... The market isn't there.

The SAME THING happened with the EK4 and MSJ. MSJ made superb stuff for the EK4 which was inherently weak (as weak as the T/E-maxx) but despite their stuff regenarating the EK4 community, the mainstream market thinned out and the modellers wouldn't pay the price. Somebody bought the CAD files for the parts and tried to restart production but closed their doors within months. Now I know that there are CAD files bouncing around for sale but nobody wants them.

All good points. But there are millions more maxx's than ek4's, and maxx's are still being produced. And a percentage of those maxx owners want the best of the best. Maybe I'll go to school for machining and have the state buy me a cnc mill or waterjet. I'm getting pretty tired of just talking...................

I accept your point about the number of Maxx's although it's been out for sooo long the army of third party hopups for it is without end.

Also bear in mind visibility. We know of UE, RCM, FLM. But ask any Maxx owner you happen to see in a shop, on the street etc. They will not.

We search for the best, we do research, therefore we are here.

90% of Maxx owners run them stock and the rest buy their hopups [by recommendation] over the counter or through Ebay.

Just my 2cents

Robin had a third party make UE parts. I'm shopping around for prices, people are looking for work right now! I can't imagine gathering gears and making super 6's or otb's would be that hard either. You can call me R/C Mafia

Caution....
 

You crack me up Harold. You better check your wheelchair brakes before you go anywhere. You know how emotional people tend to get on this subject. I am happy to see you motivated and in forward motion with your latest quest Sir. I wish you luck and success on your adventure. Did you see the "track/tread wheelchair" I posted up on Shaun's wheelchair thread? You need to get you one of those and mount some cannons to it for defensive measures. Let us know if there is anything that we can help with for idea with your CNC inquiries. Have a good day Sir.

Harold,

I have a contact here in Houston who does excellent work and already has a product line for the rc plane market. LMK. Their work has always been top notch and pricing fair.

I am behind you. If one doesn't patent and/or copyright there work, then it's stupid of them to think someone else won't use it.

I believe robin(UE) is taking legal action on this against Billy Trucks at least thats what he says. I have had many dealings with scott (billy trucks) and he is a real stand up guy never sent me a bad part.. But him selling copies of ue items .Well I really dont agree with this. Unless UE gave him permission which is not the case.

I absolutely do not agree with selling parts under the UE name that did not come from Robin Oury. What Billy Trucks did was wrong. What I want to do is offer 7075 parts for the maxx line of trucks. If this ever happens they would be clearly marked (R/C Mafia perhaps:lol:) so as to avoid any confusion as to whether or not they are UE parts. I enjoy polishing parts, it's therapeutic (mind numbing) to me. So why not......

Liking the RC Mafia name... Just UE having those 1/8 diffs in my hand is like having my bawlz in full grip. You just know you have the best stuff out there lol.. Make a name for yourself. Ill support ya, and Plett making that chassis, good stuff, if Robin wont do it why not

I agree.
 

I agree with you JayJay. I hope Harold goes big in his quest. What Billytrucks did wrong was to put the UE name to his counterfit parts. Claiming that they have anything to do with UE is definitely a no no. Putting out a like copy of similar part is done every single day in this world even if someone does have a patent. It all depends on how the patent is written, what provisions are made in the paperwork, and lastly how it is advertised.

If Harold can come up with a good product that is fairly priced then I for one will support him and purchase his work, not to mention help him with suggestions along the way. I will still make buys from RCM and even UE if Robin ever gets off of his butt and makes any. That is what we have been trying to tell him all along. If he spent some money and made parts then he would not be wasting his money fighting people like Billytrucks in the first place. Billytrucks is not thet only one fueling this problem. He is merely a symptom to this issue.

UE robin not making parts(or getting parts made)I believe has alot to do with his people skills. I will leave it at that. I was pretty neutral on the whole thing that happen and posted what Billy truck had to say on the UE forum and robin went in and changed everything around so people couldnt see the what the accused had too say. And then took away my editing abilities. Now thats messed up! Whats he got too hide unless their is some truth to what billytrucks had to say. Ever hear that saying that "the truth hurts" I am not saying what billy did was right in any way but for robin to go and edit my posting is really childish thing to do.

Harold if you got the skills to make billet parts you go for it. As long as you dont copy anyones designs and make a good product I dont see any problems.

Correct.
 

You hit the nail on the head RiverMaxx. Robin could use some lessons in introducing some TACT in his conversational skills. He is old school and tends to be a bit brash even in the simplest conversations. He has a right to be proud of his work with the UE Maxx line of products, but if he feels just the least bit threatened by a conversation he shuts you down. He controls the UE site like a little kid who does not want anyone to play with his toys, unless they do it his way. We have already seen his temper on UE. If you post one little thing that does not agree with his opinion he will lock up the thread and banish you from the site, not to mention change your words in a way to promote his own thoughts or feelings. BUT the UE forum is his site, and you have to play by his rules. Meaning that his opinion is the only one that counts. Reality bites.

that about sums it up Jerry. I was worried about getting him( robin) mad and never see my parts, so I kissed butt. I worried about that with Mike too, as I bought 20 pinions 1 at a time not knowing how to gear my truck, that would anger me something fierce having to ship out 1 pinion at a time to a retard, but Mike shipped them to me and didn't stab me in the eye with a fork. Good folks

Difference.
 

CORRECT JayJay. That is the difference between Robin and Mike. Mike may even think that way at some point because we can all be a pain in the ass at times, but he believes in good customer service and treats us with respect for the good of the RCM business. I really tried to like Robin and understand him because he had a nice thing going at UE, but when you bang your head against the wall for so long you have to finally give that up for your own health and well being. He is just too hard headed for his own good. I do respect Robin for what he tried to do with the R/C community as a whole, and his products are top notch for sure, but for some reason he can only see things one way. HIS WAY. He refuses to compromise or even concied that there may be a better way to do things. That is just too bad for us.

After seeing a thread about you guys getting together and getting Mike a nice christmas present like the custom made body and a digital frame to put all of your trucks pictures in. That says alot how everyone feels about mike. I can allready say I like this forum alot and only been on here for a little over a week. I am looking foward to building my conversion and taking in all the information and knowledge you guys have to offer about brushless setups. Thanks in advance all you guys!

I did not read the whole thread so I am hoping this is not a re-post.

The classy way to make knock off parts is to get a license. That way the original designer still gets a piece of the pie, The new guy is upstanding and does not hurt his reputation. Plus gets true design data and good marketing positioning.

Think about it. Would you pay 25.00 more for they chassis if it was to cover the license fee?

Highflier

That is exactly what Robin did to me. I typed up a short opinion that was fairly well written then he banned me, changed it, and lied claiming he didn't believe my credentials (and never gave me the chance to prove it). I tried to do business with him back in 2001. I made multiple attempts by phone and email and when I got in touch Robin came across as a jerk and would not answer simple questions.

Now you too River??? You, Lito, myself, Duster... The UE family is moving... :lol: we have all entered the dark side... :party:

I think so lol I am still keeping my nitros still though. This new mmm combo got me excited to build a brushless though. Its all litos fault for posting his brushless revo conversion on the UE forum. Not too mention you know who changing my post too say something totally different ( Stealing my Intellectual postings). Btw there is one guy on here looking for a sweetstrobe setup. Darkside??? I thought I was going too the light!!! LOL

Not to worry
 

Not to worry RiverMaxx once you get your first BL conversion running you will begin to wondeer why you even have nitro stuff laying around:yes:. Most within a year of starting BL begin to get rid of all their nitro stuff, but hang on to at least one just so they can lie to themselves about not abandoning teh nitro's all together. This is a much cleaner, and less labor intensive side. They call it the dark side because you get more sleep when all you have to do is plug em in and go for it.:lol::rofl:

^^+1. I'm working on a trade for two lst's, one with a brand new stock engine, and one with a brand new surefire .32. Nitro got me into r/c, but the first thing I will do if I get the lst's is sell the smelly oily stinky nitro engines and paraphernalia, and convert them to brushless! Join the revolution!

Sounds like.
 

Hey Harold that sounds kind of like a hate crime. A little predjudicial don't you think? We do not want any racial fighting going on in here between BL and nitro do we? Smelly, Dirty, Oily may be a little harsh.:lol::rofl::yes::intello:

That is so true :lol::lol:.

Rivermaxx, just keep in mind that I started with one electric truck (old 3906 emaxx) and now have 3 brushless trucks. If I can convert the supermaxx and predator (i can if I really wanted to), everything will be brushless.

Less mess, tuning headache etc. etc.

can 7075 be machined with standard tools? what specifically should I be looking at for material? should I be worried now about safeguarding my intellectual properties?

If i were you.
 

Well if I were you I would start by just shooting an email to MonsterMike and asking to discuss things with him as a friend. He may be able to shed some light on the subject from an owner perspective which could help you get things off the ground. He at lease knows the ins and outs of doing this sort of thing. Plus he can give you advice on materials, machining, and even legal business.

You can ask sweet also he has brought back the strobe braces for ga bulks from years back and sold them too alot of guys on rc forums and ebay. I believe he got the plans and premission from the originator. He got with a cnc machinest and made a batch of them. It took a while for him too sell all of them but he eventually did.

Yeah it is a time consuming process, but I saw a demand for an item and wanted to help people out. I didn't really make much if any money but I feel I made a quality product. I had most of them made out of 6061 t6 stock and a very small few (3 sets) made out of 7075 t6 stock. Machining 6061 and 7075 is similiar 7075 is harder and any good machinist will now how they "feel" different. :yes:

Feel free to PM me if you have any other questions... I'm more than happy to help. I can get you in touch with a good aluminum house with good stock and prices. :mdr:

Who got the 7075 ones are they marked in some way?

Kenny got them and I think he sold a set to Lito/or Eric (Duh Engineering) you can tell by weight.

I didn't get as et of 7075 :neutral:. I wish I did:whistle:.

Typically 7075 machines better than 6061. Being harder the tools tend to gum up less with 7075 and you can machine faster. Typically we could machine 7075 30% faster than 6061 in my shop using the same end mills and tooling. It was easier for us to get a cleaner finish with 7075 as well.

I will say 6061 welds much easier than 7075. 7075 can be welded but the welder really needs to know what they are doing.........

Intellectual Property is just that...property. If you have an original idea, then that idea belongs to you, because you thought of it first, before anyone else did, so it's yours. The legal side of this is a gray area, but it still can be fought, as long as you can prove that you had the idea first. Robib thought up some amazing designs, completely different than any other designs out there, so those designs do, in fact, belong to him, and him only.


Robin does have some fancy degrees, he is a trained engineer, versed in design, strength, the whole science behind his designs and why they are so good, and what it takes to make them so good.


He did use state of the art software to design, model, test, and develope his parts. He used AutoCad, SolidWorks, CAD/CAM, and many other applications to help him design his parts to be the strongest, most durable, lightest, best performing, and overall best and most radical parts ever created.


Robin's parts are far from just hunks of aluminum...he didn't just think of a design, draw it on paper, and then have a CNC machine mill it out...there was actual science and engineering involved in the design of his parts, science that less than 1% of the population even understands. And no, not everyone could have just come up with the designs he came up with, there is far more to it than that. Like I said, his parts aren't just shapes milled out of aluminum, they are designs that have been scientifically engineered to be the strongest, most durable, lightest, and highest performing of any ever created...his hi-impact designs are some of the most radical ever created, and have never been replicated, and probably never will. The man is crazy-smart, and gave us scientifically engineering, tested, and proven parts that will never be created by anyone else, unless he sells his designs.


The Cobra replicas were not stolen from Carol, they were licensed and endorsed by him, and he gave the replicators permission to make them...and to this day, he still gets paid royalties for every single one produced. There used to be a manufacturer across town from me that built them from scratch, and Carol himself actually came down to check the shop and the cars out back in the late 80s/early 90s. Like I said, Carol Shelby endorsed those replicas, the design was not stolen, it was licensed to them.


The reason it would take away from Robin is simple...if a company started reproducing Robin's parts, but they just weren't as good as Robin's originals, when they broke, people would start a firestorm blaming Robin for making crappy parts, even though he didn't actualy produce the replicas...because they were his design, any problems with them would fall on Robin, and that is not something he wants to deal with.


I agree that Robin isn't handling the situation properly, but it's his business and his reputation, he can do with them what he pleases. Fact is, he made the best parts ever made, PERIOD...and we will never see anything like it ever again. Even if a company created their own designs that were just as good as UE designs, they would always get compared to UE, and people would always label them not as good as UE, simply because UE was first, and will always be the Holy Grail of RC parts.


Just my $0.02...

Wow, talk about beating a dead horse. You do realize this thread is 6 months old and the subject has been dropped?

Yep, but I just now read it and wanted to add my $0.02.

lol....that's more like adding your 15 bucks.

Come on guys, he makes a few valid points. But keep in mind these are toy car parts... If Robin wants to bitch, complain, or just speak his mind that is his prerogative. No one should try to call him out for that.

Sucks that other companies are stealing his designs, why not just make something better? It is easy to steal his look, and that is what the general populous are buying - lookalikes. So the people in the know will buy the genuine UE and the posers/dumbasses will buy the knock offs.

I do agree that this subject has been beaten to death. Lets get back to showcasing our projects and leave the BS for someone else on another forum. We seem to have a lack of builds here recently, so get creative guys!

I am currently building two BL Supermaxxes...

[1] Gorillamaxx G2 aluminum chassis with UE mono-block, UE VBS with Ti skids stuffed with Ofna 8-Spider diffs, custom center-diff & motor-mount (by me), Ofna 8-Spider CD, UE Racer-X suspension with real UE Setbacks and real UE single-shock Hi-Impacts, UE Racer-X shocks, UE 6mm Ti CVDs, DD wing-mount, MBX5T wing-stay, JConcepts Revo wing, Dace 23mm hex-adapters, JConcepts Rulux ½" off-set Half-Ups, Pro-Line MT Badlands, Pro-Line Crowd Pleazer 2.0 Revo 3.3 body, Tony's Screws, Acer Racing ceramic bearings, UE Ti pillow-balls, two Zippy Flightmax 30C 4S 2650mAh LiPos (14.8v @ 5300mAh & 159A), MMM/2200kV combo...I think that's it.

[2] Hardcore Racing Mutant Maxx titanium truggy conversion chassis, GA 7075 bulks and braces, Hardcore 2mm Ti skids, UE Ultralites stuffed with Ofna 8-Spider diffs, Mike's RCM GS Storm motor-mount, Ofna 8-Spider CD, UE Racer-X suspension with real UE Setbacks and real UE single-shock Hi-Impacts, UE Racer-X shocks, UE Knucklehead shock towers, UE 6mm steel CVDs, DD wing-mount, MBX5T wing-stay, XRAY 808 wing, Dace 23mm hex-adapters, JConcepts Rulux ½" off-set Half-Ups, Pro-Line LPR Bow-Ties, PROTOform HardDrive Revo 3.3 body, Tony's Screws, Acer Racing ceramic bearings, UE Ti pillow-balls, two Zippy Flightmax 30C 4S 2650mAh LiPos (14.8v @ 5300mAh & 159A), MMM/2200kV combo...I think that's it.

I will start a thread for each of them when the rest of my parts come in...

good luck. wait until you get it built exactly how you want it... then are afraid to run it the way it was designed to be run because of fear of unavailable parts that break.

trust me... i've been there. :yes:
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7595

that shock tower design is amazing clodmaxx. it is unlike anything out there but it looks like it is stronger than anything out there. I am starting to see why everybody thinks this comany is the holy grail of rc parts

I have already built a full-blown Supermaxx, just a nitro version (Thunder), and I beat the snot out of it! The UE stuff is so good that you really don't have to worry about breaking anything, within reason.

I will beat the snot out of these two Supermaxxes as well, because that's what they are being built for! If I break something, I will find a replacement, and thenbeat on it some more!

Here's pics of the nitro SM...

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/ue/chads_sm1.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/ue/chads_sm2.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/supermaxx/sm_01.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/supermaxx/sm_02.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/supermaxx/sm_04.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/supermaxx/sm_05.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/supermaxx/sm_06.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/supermaxx/sm_07.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/supermaxx/sm_08.jpg

http://pics.offroadextremes.com/rc/supermaxx/sm_09.jpg