I am not trying to change anyones mine if anything I want you guys to change my mind I am open minded. I am just wanting to see all the nitro haters back up their claims. Nothing personal to anyone but if your going to bash nitro at least be the winner of the race. Right?

You are right, talk is cheap. There really is no way to describe the difference between nitro and electric.

I honestly belive that nitro will always be around because companies like traxxas made it easy. Unless there is a severe temp extreme most nitro vehicles will start reasonably easily, and after that they can be played with. People who just want to play and do not have much technical ability or lintelligence can operate a nitro. Maybe not to the fullest extent of the design, but it still drives and produces grins!

Brushless electric requires more intimate knowledge of batteries and chargers and setup, plus motors, escs and gearing. If you like making stuff and tinkering (like most of us here do) then electric has more options than nitro. Consider what the rock crawling crowd do, and FE boat guys, and all of the electric heli and plane people.

I will go as far to say that electric is more difficult than nitro. I can tune a nitro motor, and a clutch. I have fixed tons of nitro vehicles for the LHS and the owners usually have no idea what they are doing save for pulling the trigger.

As far as racing, electric is not really popular due to strange sanctioning bodies rules and the general lack of proven "systems". The top drivers like what they are doing, and the change to electric would require a huge amount of money and time to get working. Plius most mfgs make nitro stuff, so that is what is raced. Not too many off the shelf brushless vehicles yet. Brushless has been around for a while, but it is a delicate equation to balance to make it work.

If you are the kind of guy who likes a challenge, and has some manual dexterity you will enjoy brushless electric. Get ready to learn alot, as doing bl right takes a fair amount of knowledge.

As far as vids and proof, you just need to look around, it is there. No doubt brushless has more power, torque and gearing potential than nitro. It also has lower maintenance and is cleaner. And don't forget that Nitro is cheaper, and that is why it is still around... Admittedly a comparable bl setup to a nitro vehicle for speed and power would be pretty cheap, a bk esc and a l can feigao on 2 1500 nicd stickpacks in series should do...

whats the argument, if you don't get it you may never. Can't make a depressed person stop wanting to eat a bullet. Can't make Ghandi eat. Some are set in their ways and the earth still revolves with or without them LOL stuff is and can be better, just LOOK ......brushless

Whats the saying "Put up or shut up" So far nic case is the only one who can walk the walk and talk the talk. heres a link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PLOGAvhyJ84 Now that is awesome!!.

Nic spoke, he begged us to put up and we all wussed, you put up...next year maybe if obama gives me the $5000 for being a loser fund he promised

I've had all BL cars for several years now, but got my 1st nitro in a Savage XL. First I intended to convert it, but had a spare 427 motor, so threw it in and ran it for a bit. Way slower than a BL, so much less TQ, and a pain in a lot of ways (as described.) The biggest pain was having to carry so much crap around, starter, wrench, temp gun, screwdriver and glow starter. Plus the fuel is fookin expensive and goes fast. $40 of nitro goes way faster than you would guess. Plus the radio batts runs down fast w/ big servos.

But... it was still a lot of fun. So much I got a LRP .28 for it.
Faster, but still not as much as BL. Break-in sucks, and its a bit messy, but the savvy TVPs keeps it pretty clean. (pan chassis are a disaster tho.) Its a pull start, usually starts in a couple pulls.

Why did I get a nitro motor for it?
1.) for something different. Plus should learn about nitros to really appreciate how better BL is.
2.) It still is a lot of fun. Yes its slower, but for a huge MT like the XL, is still fast enough.
The nice thing about nitro is that its a bit easier to just grab and go out if you haven't driven in a while. You got to keep lipos stored @ 50% charge, so in my busy house, if I get a few mins to go play, it get wrecked by having to wait for batts.
IDK about realism, but it is fun making racket w/ the XL while trashing thru the grass and bushes.

Now, I would never ever race a nitro! They are a freaking pain, and need so much attention to get them running right. W/ a basher, as long as it runs decently its fine. I don't get too hung up on the tune (as long as its not too hot) and pipes and all that crap. Whatever, it just works.
So much of nitro racing seems on just tuning the motor. BL frees you from this to focus on tuning the rest of the car. The races tend be less about who stalls out first to lose.

and there you have it, stall meisters LOL

River, hurry up with your conversion. I bet after running your first brushless motor that you'll be hook into it more than you'll realize. Speed challenge threads in the trx forum are just a way to boost the ego of those kids. Just look at the quality of posts they're making. I would like to do speed runs too but theyre is not enough space to do it safely here. I wish I was still stationed in Hawaii so I can do speed runs at the runway of the old Barber's Point air station.

Anyway, I can't remember who has this signature. It goes something like this:

I love nitro, I start it, run it for 50 feet. It dies, walk to it, perfect exercise.

Why should I "put up" I never said one bad thing about any brushless setups . In fact I believe I praised nic case for his acheivments. Maybe you guys who have had bad experiences with nitro are buying crap nitro engines. A cheap<$200 chinese 427 or a lrp.28 dont have nothing as far as power and reliabilty compared to a good $300- $500 OS, RB or Novarossi engine. It like comparing hyundai's to a ferrari. Lito you are probably right I probably will love the brushless setup I get. I just want to see the guys bashing nitro show their stuff.

I have a feeling you will find quite a few people on here who dislike nitro, as this is a mainly brushless electric forum...

Kinda like the guys on the traxxas forum bashing hpi stuff...

And a 500 dollar nitro engine will still not keep up with the $300 castle 2200 system on 6s lipo. It may run better and last longer than a cheaper big block but it will still only make so much power and rev so high. Nitro motors cannot compete with elctric in power or torque production, or rpm...

And before someone metions the battery cost... A decent 6s lipo can be had for around 250 bucks, and should get about 200 cycles if treated properly. So that equates to about 67 hours of use (asuming 20 min runtime, which is very a very low estimate for a 6s setup).

Now nitro costs 30-35 bucks a gallon, so 250 bucks will get you about 8 gallons. That is around 30,000cc so about 200 tanks of fuel (150cc tank). Now most big blocks can go thru a tank of fuel faster than 20mins... So the lipo is cheaper than the nitro fuel over the lifetime of the setup. Not sure if a nitro engine can do 8 hrs without rebuild, so you might want to factor in some parts.

In any case I think you will enjoy electric almost as much as you enjoy arguing....

The amt spent could be said for anything in any hobby, but the point is why spend $500 on a nitro motor when you can get more for less w/ BL? In fact why would you put a $500 motor (don't forget the $70+ pipe) in a stock Savage?
You can get a castle setup for cheap and it takes all the work out of picking setups out. Get some inexpensive good lipos, like Mike's, Neus or Zippies and you are ready to rock for less than that, and it will run for years.

Check out my simple Crt.5 video. 60mph easy, yet easy to tune down for the track or backyard driving. The setup is a bit diff now, but just as fast. A <$80 sidewinder esc, a $100 medusa motor, and a $35 lipo. I'm getting two years + of great use out of my lipos. I dare you to find a nitro that can do that and for that price.

I'm really not into crazy speed runs, but all my setups are more than fast enough. Plenty of vids if you care to browse. My first BL revo did wheelies to 50 mph and was a cheap chinese $50 feigao XL and a $120 MM. I still have the $110 trueRc lipo, motor and esc (in crt.5 sometimes :) ) nearly 3 years later.

Dui
 

Yes but at least they cannot arrest you for DUI driving the nitro.:na:

Here is your videos!!!!!!
 

Rivermaxx,

here is just a couple of videos to whet your appetite (you ever seen a nitro throw a 10lb muggy in the air like that from sheer torque? i doubt it!). and if i could get my DVD camcorder mini dvd's to download i could show you more. my bare bones setup not even geared for speed that does 55-60mph. if i threw in some gearing like a 22/45 like i am sure your friend did who has the 66mph revo my truggy would be doing like 100mph. (i run 13/46 and 15/48 by the way.) go look at the RC calculator and do the math. and plus, i started this thread simply saying that Nitro cars are dirty as hell and that i love brushless. i can't help it if everyone who has passion for the brushless wants to express their opinion. its a forum, what do you expect??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85v85Pn3DMk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo7GdkNpKAY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MR-6d...next=1&index=3

ps. i only posted the boat racing link cuz boat racing seems to be at the forefront of speed technology in the RC indsustry....and they dont run nitro.

I GUARANTEE when you convert your first kit you will never look back. then no one will need to "back it up" or "walk the walk". you will have convinced yourself. that is the only one who can convince you anyway. no matter how much i tell you about my 60mph truggies (3 of them) or my 70 mph Schumacher you wont believe it until you build/drive one yourself. we are already walking the walk. we do what we love!! what more is there???

OH, AND LEST WE FORGET, THIS IS ALL JUST FRIENDLY BANTER. NOT ACTUAL HEATED DEBATE. AT LEAST IT IS FOR ME. I DONT THINK ANYONE HERE ACTUALLY "HATES" NITRO. WE JUST HAVE A MUCH DEEPER APPRECIATION FOR THE FINER THINGS IN LIFE. :wink::lol:

I do have to comment on the nitro motors

You all know im a BL freak, so...

I personally race nitro TC, and my MTX4R paired up with a RB R3, and a Ninja Ti pipe is AMAZING. The RB ALWAYS starts, I mean ALWAYS. You guys make it sound like there is a ton of stuff to carry, if your at the track then you move it once to the pits, I carry a starter box (with lipos in it lmao) glow ignitor, fuel bottle, temp gun, screw driver. Temp gun and screwdriver in my pocket, fuel bottle, starter box, car, and radio. Its not horrible

BUT, NEVER, I mean NEVER will I take nitro over electric, nitro racing is fun, pit stops and messing with your motor and everything adds to the challenge of racing, keeps the blood moving, and fun factor high.

Will be cool to see what electric 8th does for 09, and coming years. Personally I will be wheeling a nitro, and BL buggy this summer. More classes, more practice right?

No worries Ryu James. I think if anyone should take my opinions personally then they should just sit down with a good beer or drink and relax a bit.

I can see the need for some hard evidence behind certain statements but as far as "back it up" or "walk the walk"... I "put my money where my mouth is" and thats all things electric :intello:

Anyway, debates are usually a good thing (heated or otherwise) as they can lead to a better understanding and additional insight to points of view you may not have been privey to before. Just don't get carried away with personal attacks when someone doesn't agree with you. We all know the "Golden Rule" which you won't find in the ROAR rule book :whistle:

Though I really do dislike Nitro with a vengence but then again I cant stand cigaret smoke either :na:
Its not the smoker I don't like its the damn smoke...

Guys! Guys! You are preaching to the choir! Rivermaxx is saying hes on board.

Rivermaxx- you missed post 19 somehow, but here's the video link of jzemaxx driving a large xtm mammoth monster truck 80.4 mph. Put up or what?:surprised:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERY9_TLF86M&feature=user

Obviouslly You've never been to the barn and raced the owner of this site, Mike Cronen! I'm sure he could put any nitro to shame with his conversions, wait...He has!!! At the RC-M bash in September the only class that wasn't mixed was truggy. Every other class wasm mixed and I'm pretty sure that electrics won everytime! I know Chris, Arct1k won the long jump and at least placed in buggy and I think MT, Mike won truggy and MT I think. Most of us on here would put out BL vehicles up against a Nitro anyday!! I know I will!!! I'm still waiting to put my E-REVO up againgst a 1/8th nitro buggy with the guy I work with. If I can't beat him, I'll just run him over!!!:lol:

hello??? Rivermaxx?? where are you?? i wanted to hear your thoughts on the videos that have been posted now. what do you think? you wanted some proof and we have delivered. just curious what you think.

ps. be sure to post your conversion when you build. would love to see it. good luck. what did you say you want to convert? any exact plans of when you will start?

Pretty impressive, anyone else? how about jayjay? since he was the first too challenge me. Lets see what what you got.

I only converted my cars to BL due to the blood clots in my lungs as I couldn't cope with the fumes.
Now that I've had the op to fix me up to 3/4 healthy, nitro fumes are no longer a problem, but, I will never convert my cars back.
I have to race a nitro truggy for work reasons & I'm not allowed to run at the local club with my BL's. They keep telling me that it's unfair as mine is faster & I have ALL the power settings on the lowest!

Electric is the way of the future.

Way to go.
 

Way to go Mozzy. It is nice to see BL guys shoving nitro up someones butt. Also nice challenge attitude RiverMaxx. Lets keep it healthy and push towards proving the BL point to the world, even if you may not totally agree just yet. Lets all just have some fun in here and on the R/C tracks around the world. Truly River welcome to the world of BL power. We just want to have some fun.:lol::yes::yipi:

Very True but for most of us here, Electric is most importantly the way of the present :intello:

Very true...

Brushless lipo is just so much more.... satisfying, mathmatically mind challenging. Was at one point kind of hard to figure out, getting easier for all I hope. The challenge to conquer it was part of it, now I just love the fun. Hard to find a smile some days, the brulshless always does it. Nitro stink pumps didnt do it.

I have both nitro and brushless trucks and I took my emaxx 7xl MMM and raced an upgraded tmaxx with a .32 on 30%. The nitro truck was impressive, but on pavement I had instant accelleration and torque. I could not get over how much more initial power I had and that was on just about the cheapest BL setup you can get.

Who make the .32 engine? If its an axial which it probably is. That is the cheapest .32 engine you can get also.

All I know is I can't stop converting them. I have three, all I really want is to have one but can't decide on which one. When I'm at the track I'm hammered with questions about, and people can't believe how fast and long they run. :lol:

In a lot of the major races and championships and some smaller events (depending on the track officials), brushless isn't allowed to compete with the nitro's, so they won't be on the podium even if they're fast enough. That's also why it's rare to see pro drivers competing with brushless 1/8th's, because they won't be allowed to compete in some of the major events.

Esactly right sir.
 

Thats right Patrick. ROAR officails keep the Brushless competitors out of the races, why is that you ask? It is because they know that BL is comming and will over run the nitros if they open the door and let them in. Lets look at this even closer. WHO controls the ROAR rulebook? Thats right, the major nitro equipment suppliers. It is just like why don't we already have electric cars flooding the highways?? Because the oil companies are keeping the technology down in order to sell their oil. Greedy bastards. I guess the same sort of thinking applies to racing R/C's. Have a nice day. Don't be a hater...

if the fuel and nitro companies had half a brain they would see this as an opportunity to fill a void for a relentless need in the market. take some of their capital and dedicate it to R&D and produce some electric products and be one of the first to get a piece of the pie and build a reputation as a hero; one who risked tons of capital to bring the world what it has been waiting for.

what was it Neos nemesis said in "the Matrix"? "the sound of inevitibility"

like i said before, nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come. (quote from some smart guy). an idea that the world is ready for cannot be stopped. period. especially not by some stupid ROAR regulations. those idiots will face the sad reality when 80% of all RC sales will be for brushless products. give it 5-10 more years. it is going to happen. all it is right now is like someone threw a snowball with their hand down the mountain and its been rolling for 3 seconds, only the size of an orange. wait til this thing has been rolling longer and gets to be the size of a truck. the growth is really starting to be exponential now. with traxxas and losi releasing 1/8 brushless factory kits it has only just begun. the seed has been planted.

there is no stopping the tsunami of brushless in the RC world or electric in the real world. if the big corps werent such dumbasses they would be riding this wave already. instead, its going to hit the masses with such force and they will finally realize, "oh, we want to come up with some electric products to make some money. it turns out we couldnt stop it from coming so i guess we should jump on board." but by then they will have missed the wave and its already crested. dumba$$e$

Excerpt from Hi Torque's R/C Car magazine page 118
 

Here is an excerpt from R/C Car this month in their article on the Losi 8E on page 118.

"Electric powered vehicles ruled the road in all forms of RC for years, as the nitro engine technology of the time couldnt match the plug-and-play ease of batteries and motors. However, the simultaneous improvement of nitro engines across the board along with electric racers feeling priced out of competition by rapidly-released updates in electric motor and battery tech caused a huge shift to nitro racing. And now, with the superior reliability of brushless motors and LiPo batteries, the tide is changing once again."

i dont think anyone realizes how much brushless is going to dominate the market though. unless nitro comes up some amazing new technology it is going to be a thing of the past. brushless will continue to get better whereas nitro has seen its limits already. as soon as the first quick-change battery trays come out and 1/8 brushless starts running in ROAR races, its over. and i have talked with owners of major RC companies who tell me their quick-change LiPo trays are being developed and tested now and will be out this year. in fact, several companies are working on this now including Losi, Tekno, and RC Product Designs just to name a few. nitro will become more of a sub-hobby within the hobby where only a few "nitro-purists" will stick with it because of their passion for the lifelike resemablance and sound of real cars. but as soon as real 1/1 cars start turning more to electric that will only throw more fuel to the fire.
anyway, i predict that brushless technology will dominate the RC scene for many decades to come. it is going to be amazing to see the new advancements in motor, esc, and lipo technology. things will get smaller and more powerful. it is so exciting to be involved in this movement and to be enjoying RC during this time.

oh, i wanted to post this vid since i posted one earlier in this thread of the brushless muggy on a neu 1521 throwing around the muggy like a rag doll. well i found a twin motor nitro MT that is doing the same thing. i have never seen a nitro setup like this. its pretty impressive but it doesnt change anything i have just said. just cool to watch.

twin motor nitro MT
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwm8y8jcwGM

Neu 1521 brushless muggy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bo7GdkNpKAY


and then there is this. someone in this thread said that the fastest MT was a nitro powered Revo and it did 66mph. well they never saw this then. a brushless MT doing 78.6mph

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1-XCew1rCk

80.4mph
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERY9_TLF86M&NR=1

There is more nitro can do to get more power like more agressive porting and higher nitro percentages like 50%. Heres a heavier savage with Novarrosi 528 xrp wheelies at speed and instant acceleration. Kinda like a brushless with noise and smoke lol. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...12325975034856
Top speed run with a os.28 xz http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uUJluk2DGU4

those are pretty cool vids. i hate it when people hold the radar gun in front of the camera the whole time though so you can never see the car. i would rather see the car run than the radar getting a reading. nonetheless, those are some fast nitros. that mt sounded pretty sweet.

I seen one of a buggy or truggy with a ab modded OS.28xz buggy and it was insanely fast and would impress anyone even the haters. It had such throttle response it would pull 30 mph wheelies just awesome. I cant seem to find it though but I will keep looking.

Sorry to say.
 

There is more nitro can do to get more power like more agressive porting and higher nitro percentages like 50%. Heres a heavier savage with Novarrosi 528 xrp wheelies at speed and instant acceleration. Kinda like a brushless with noise and smoke

Sorry to say but that is exactly the point. BL is pretty much plug and play once you get the wiring hooked up correctly. Even with two nitro engines that thing could not compete with the single BL setup. Sure nitro is fun for the averge Joe who just loves playing with tiny little replicas of real 1:1 cars, but brushless is just a better way to go all around. Now the challenge is to find the right wheel/tire setup that will hold up to the kinds of power that we are putting our trucks under. Nice share on all the videos guys. 84mph is not a bad showing for an MT.

Funny thing is that those 2 pos sts engines in that MT is not as good as 1 good novarossi or os.28xz. It really all comes down to putting the power to the ground. Brushless have instant torque right? but what good is it when you cant use it because it over powers your traction or just flips on the lid. Why is it that nobody with a brusless revo has beaten the current 66mph nitro record on the traxxas forum Been going on for 3 weeks . Current record is 62.8 revo with a mmm combo. I thought for sure sombody on this forum would break it by now. Maybe it cant be done.:wink:

I liked that vid. He has some nice power. I'm sure keeping it running isnt a picnic and I thought I read he has $4,000 into it. OUCH.

Rivermaxx, I think one of the reasons Over revo's record (for the Revo) is not broken yet is due to the fact that people here are more matured compared to those attention-seeking-wanna-be's from the traxxas forum. Just look at the threads they are posting. Over revo spent a lot of time working on his setup. He didn't say anything until after his succesful initial run. In addition to that, he's a factory driver for AB mods so he has access to better stuff.

Only a handful of people here are speed freaks. I tried it with my gmaxx but did not fare well due to uncontrollability at high speeds in addition to not having a safe place to do the speed runs. I'm content doing 50-55 mph runs and double flips.

Anyway, it can be done. It just a matter of time. Let those noobs post and talk about there setups. In the end, someone will be able to do it.

This really isnt rocket science. I'm sure all anyone has to do is get one of those 80mm medusas on 6S and an MMM and the record could be broken. Or one of those Pletty Maximums or two. Whats really the point? Its not going to be driveable with that much power and its probably going to heat up after a couple of passes.

I don't think nitro will ever go away. Both nitro and BL can be powerful. What is nice is that they have both got to a point where neither suck.

That's really what its come down to. Choices. If you like nitro, great. Run that and have fun. Prefer elec? You can now have a killer setup with that too. Both are fun and have diff adv/disadv.

Ironically I think Rivermaxx is doing the best in making the case against nitro. Basically he has said all along that all engines besides his personal favorite brand X are chitty, and even then require extensive and professional modding and setup to really even compete with basic and inexpensive off the shelf BL parts that can even be operated by beginners.

Well whatever. Have fun with that.

Personally I very much enjoy my near stock Sav XL w/ a "POS sport" (lol) LRP.28 and my various "mild" BL trucks that do a mere 50+mph. Thank god I'm not hungup on records and hyper-competitivism or it sounds like I'd never be having fun.