As to your radio, yes it's possible, and yes, it will be a moot point to check without an ESC (unless you have another MM/MMM just to try it). Definitely something to look into once you get a new/repaired ESC.

Yes, the 1515 is a very powerful motor, but the ESC controls the amount of brake force in proportion to the radio brake input. What you describe sounds like it was all or nothing, and that's not how it should act, no matter what size motor you have. Again, I suspect a radio/ESC calibration issue, or the throttle channel was reversed in the radio. It's gotta be one or the other unless the MMM brains circuit was totally goofy (and I suspect you'd have had other issues if that was the case).

Yes, the 1/8 scale diffs do make a difference. IIRC, the stock diff ratio is ~2.6:1 or 2.8:1, and the hybrids are either 3.3:1 or 4.3:1 depending on if you got the buggy or truggy version. So yes, it was "geared down" just from the diffs. But, a large tire can add substantial amount of speed, more than you'd think. Go into my calc (link in the sig) and enter all your data and see what the speed is.

At any rate, if speeds were in the 35-45mph ballpark, you're fine gearing-wise. Something just happened to the ESC to make it go poof, and we'll probably never know. I would look over the driveline (particularly the center area) to make sure there aren't any rocks or anything that might cause it to jam; just because it rolls freely on the bench doesn't mean it will when running because a rock or something may be in a position where it makes occasional contact enough to jam. I frequently get this on my CRT.5; a rock will jam between the axle and a-arm and I'll suddenly be doing donuts. Since the ERBE doesn't have a center diff, I would look at the center drive line as that is the only area that will actually stall the motor (the individual axles would diff out).

jpoprock, I haven't much to add as it has already been said, but I like your attitude! :yipi: More people should take things on a forum with a grain of salt. Why let written word :rules: on an internet forum from a person you don't know get you riled? :diablo:

As for neil, he just needs to get laid. :surprised: It is fun watching him call people out though.......:yes:

I'd like say I agree,You have a better attitude than most and it exceeds mine for sure ! Linc ruffled my feathers a few days ago and I got pissed off but quickly realized that it's a 2 way street and I can shoot right back without letting anger and emotions get in the way. After all were here to help each other and hopefully have some fun in the process.

kinda on topic but... does lowering the braking power 30% lets say, would that lower the braking amperage spikes? pertaining to the mgm way over my head write up

hmmm.. my MM in my .5 has been doing the same thing. I'll have to check this.

and how big are thoes tyres? what gearing?
6s!!!???
sounds like you did push it too hard after all to me :(

I've had my chocolate sponge cake & custard, Im all better now :yes: (sorry about that, it was a long day at work and yes I do need to get laid thanks, anyone got a spare 16-25 y/o daughter I can borrow?).

When using larger diameter tires, especially heavy ones (relatively speaking), gearing down cures most ills; 40-45mph is a nice zone to be in for any given combo/setup, controllable speed and lots of power still given a decent electrical setup (good lipos and torquey motor). Anything faster than that and gping lightweight is important to reduce the load on the esc and batts, since tall gearing will pull alot of current, so the less strain the better.

16 huh, you must have different laws in the UK.:lol::lol: that would get me a free trip to jail

hence why they invented 'get out of jail free' cards:lol:

If it wasn't for the pictures of the melted monster, I probably wouldn't have believed it. Until today when mine burst into flames just after arming!:cry:

Muted: WTF???? Whu happon? Just after arming? That's wild!

You know what guys... I remembered the other day that this last run where my MMM melted was NOT the first time I ran my Moabs. I ran them about a week before, on fine gravel, and ran it hard. It was sliding and skidding like mad. It was insane fun! I ran it much harder that time, then I did when it smoked. When it smoked, it was like half speed driving.

I still haven't looked in the tranny area, but I suppose there could some gravel lodged in there somewhere, causing binding maybe. I need to look still. But my MMM is off to Castle, so we'll see.

this is only what i have heard...i may have got it wrong but i'm sure one of the pro's will correct me...


i think your issue and muted's issue are related.

it isnt always the amp draw, it can sometimes be the braking that kills them.
when you use the breaks, power flows back through the MMM and into the battery, if the battery isnt a high enough AMP rating (say 80A cont or something rather than the recomended 150A) then the resistance causes the voltage inside the ESC to rize, in some cases this can destroy or damage the phase caps.
now when the phase caps die they seem to go quietly, like just before you finish off a battery pack and put it away.
the blown up caps wont always prevent it from running straight away, and the ESC can soldier on for a bit longer.

but next time you turn it on and it's armed itself, it trys to use hte caps and...oh no they arnt there...so BOOM :cry:
these problems seem to happen more often on 6s operation...because the voltage is already high so it is already getting closer to the 40v MAX braking voltage rating.

i belive the problem you guys both have might be related with the caps, jpoprock might have used the car a bit longer after hte caps went pop and as soon as the ESC needed the caps again...well....
but as for muted, i think his caps may have gone just before he brought her in for the day at the end of the pack or something, hence when he turned it on next time and hte caps were needed...fire:oh:

hope one of the more experienced guys can clear up weather i am right or weather i completely fecked up:lol:
sorry for the loss.
shaun

Yea it was crazy. I just got it out of the car, connected the battery, turned it on, it made all the right noises, then when I pushed the throttle on, it cogged a bit, then started smoking, then snap crackle pop! A little fire shot out of it.
I disconnected the battery before even thinking about it, and my mate just started ripping the wires out of it. The wires ended up about 10 feet away!

Just turning it on, then 5 secs later turning it off, it shouldn't of even started to warm the battery, but even after 5 minutes, when we came back after searching for the wires, it was warm to the touch. Must of drawn some serious amperage!

When I took it out for a run the day before it ran perfectly, then the last bit before I went home it was cogging something severely. Took it home expecting to find some rocks caught in the transmission but nothing at all.

could be a motor problem. if something bad happens in the motor (ie a coil shorting) it will cause cogging and massive current draw like that.

Was this on 4 or 6s lipo?

You cooked and de-magged your motor, then the next time you used it > cooked esc.

Unless the motor wasnt hot after the last run, temps?

did you even read what i wrote?

Not all of them did. some of the earlier ones still had the removable wires. As did my first v3 replacement.

Yes, you talk about blown caps due to over voltage, I talk about a dem-magged motor due to excessive heat, that then causes massive current draw trying to get the motor spinning; that much current will cook the fets.

Blown caps due to over voltage seems unlikely as:

A) Its a 25v esc, the caps are spec'd for 35v- I dont know where you're getting 40v from, but it aint happening. The voltage being put back into the batts as a result of regenerative braking is no more than a few mV, as proven by a nice eagletree graph someone did back along as a practicle test.

B) I dont need a B as my A was so great :rules:

The hot lipo packs would seem to support the 'massive current draw as a result of trying to turn over a dead motor theory'. Could be something else that is going pop though, but aparently castle (and HPI...) can access some sort of data recording chip inside the esc to do an autopsy....

lol, an ESC "black box" (like they have in airplanes). :smile:

Thats what I thought.. Mind you, that is according to the numpty on the HPI forum who blew up his flux the other week, so it'd be nice to hear from a Castle dude about said data recorder.

Better hush hush on the black box or the unmarked black suv's will be pulling in front of your house soon......

Honestly... I think that run I did on the gravel, with the Moabs... is what did the ESC in. I shut it off in the nick of time (unknowing anything was wrong), then when I drove lightly around the yard in grass, the caps let loose from braking. Not OVER braking, but just regular braking. The ESC just couldn't take it.

A friend of mine fried two MMM V3's (not fire), from driving them in sand he thinks. So, I gather that sand is NOT your friend with a BL system huh? I can't believe how touchy these MMM's are. Overgeared, too much braking, sand, low C rating, etc causes failure. I get it that there are certain basic rules that have to be followed.... esp when you're pumping 6s thru the thing. But now I'm going to be all paranoid when I get my new one back, and I should have to feel that way.

TBH: I don't like running ESCs to their max voltage value. There just isn't enough headroom for me. The TVS on the MMM is rated for 26v IIRC, and at 6s, a system can generate enough EMF when braking to stress it and blow it. And when the TVS blows (which is probably not noticeable to the user), all that EMF energy is no longer being clamped and the FETs, caps, and batteries have to cope with it instead. I like to run 1s below the rating, so, for the MMM, that's 5s. No problems so far on either of my two MMMs. Even on a Quark (which is rated for 6s too), I run 5s max in any of those systems, and those have been solid.

The only ESC I run at over it's advertised spec is the MM (on 4s), but that is because I feel it is underrated. 25v caps and 30v FETs. The only limiting factor IMO is the built-in linear BEC, which is easily remedied with an external switching BEC.

Should the MMM be totally reliable up to its rated spec? Sure, but as said, everything has to be "ideal" when running that close to the edge. Any one thing out of whack can cause "issues" as we've seen. Why is it that some people (maybe the majority) can run fine all day long on 6s? I dunno, maybe they are lucky, happen to have cream of the crop components, or simply not as hard their stuff.

¸¸¸¸ I don't like running ESCs to their max voltage value. There just isn't enough headroom for me. The TVS on the MMM is rated for 26v IIRC, and at 6s, a system can generate enough EMF when braking to stress it and blow it<<<<<<.





castle should put a higher devise to prevent some failure????

FYI back voltage is a lot more than that the HV BEC can take 50v input for non braking air use but only 6s in cars due to voltage spikes under braking...

these type of failures MUST be caused by setups:oh:
i cant get my MMM over 150 (fan is on very briefly after stopping) under HARD load and on 6s.
but i also USE the punch control and the throttle curve so no standing backflips for me, it will wheelie if i mash the throttle but i avoid that cause the tyres cant take it:rofl: (center diff)
my motoer never even hits 120 and it's geared for 45mph on 6s.

i wanted to go up to 40 series on the reace truck...but needless to say gearing down is on order, but then regen brake load is increased from the extra enertia.

and personaly i have never heard on anyone killing one of the castle/neu 2200's from overheating:neutral:

kinda need a recomended setup in the boxes of traxxas and HPI since both company's are speed obsessed but in reality, unless treated nicely and you are running great lipo's then the future looks overcast...
and the standing backflip video's on HPI's forum...they cant have possibly done that geared for 70mph:gasp:

It's like anything else that is high-performace; cars, computers, audio, etc. The closer you run to the edge of the envelope, the more chances for failure. Most people who fit this category understand this and expect failures, but these systems are made available to the average joe who thinks they can open the box, plug in any old battery, and gear to the moon for subsonic speeds. And those same people wonder why things fail.

I agree though, TRX and HPI should definitely provide recommendations for various uses along with warnings if the user departs from those recommendations. The trouble is that there are so many variables to account for; tire size, drive style, ESC settings, battery quality (real-world, not whatever sticker the manufacturer decides to slap on to improve sales), voltage, and so on. Would make recommendations either too general to be effective, or too detailed for people to follow.

It's nice that HPI and Trx has these systems available right out of the box, but I don't think the masses are ready for it TBH.

Hey guys... I can't take any pix, cuz my camera is at the in-laws! But I pulled my Neu the other day to take a look at it, and noticed something peculiar. Here is a picture from Neu's site showing the copper wires:

http://www.neumotors.com/Site/Picture_gallery.html#1

Well, on MY Neu 1515 2.5d /f, a particular section of winding is much darker... almost brownish black in color, and the other section of windings is the copper color. Like a 1/4" braid. If you took both colors and wrapped them like the picture shown. 1/4" section is copper, the next brown, the next copper, the next brown.

What could this mean?? Could that ESC fire have somehow burnt up my motor? Or did something go wrong w/ the motor causing the ESC fire??

I NEED MY CAMERA!

Bad motor > dead esc, not the other way in 99% of cases I've seen around here. Seems more like you may have gotten something nasty inside your motor, that caused a shorted phase > cooked esc. Running in gravel you say? With a motor that has lots of holes in both ends?... (Im a bastard, but at least I try to be humerous at the same time....:mdr:).

I have been running my MMM on 4S and 5S for a while now with no issues with all types of batteries, motors and configurations. I do a lot of hard starting and stopping and havent had any issues, mostly bashing. I decided to try some 6S setups conservatively geared just to test and have now gone thru 2 controllers in 3 weeks. The same controllers that were operating perfectly at 4S and 5S did not work on 6S for to long. In both cases the controllers failed while the truck was coming to a stop. The second failure took out one of my lipos. I will be sending the second one in this week, but I am pretty sure that if you are using the MMM on 6S and using the ESC for braking, I think the probability of failure goes up quite a bit. Maybe I am just unlucky twice this month, but it just seems like to much coincidence that this would happen. My solder connections were solid in both cases, no binding on the truck, I really have no other explanation as to why this could happen. AFter reading Brians post above it makes sense. On the second controller I could see puffs of smoke coming out as it came to a stop at my feet. I was braking hard as always with the 40 percent brake setting so the truck doesnt flip over going forward.

I managed to kill mine in my Muggy under really hard braking. 80mm Medusa, 16/46 gearing with 40 series wheels/tires, 4s lipo, and it took repeated hard braking for it to finally stop working. No drama, it just stopped working right as if I had burned out a phase. Got my replacement and it's still going strong ~4 months later.

Maybe, but that would involve a total redesign. Not sure if they are willing or see the need for it. As long as people understand the limitations, 6s should be ok.

Besides, the reasons I stated are just MY opinions/theory. It doesn't mean they are correct. But, the evidence sure supports it. How many 4s or 5s setups have you heard of flaming up vs 6s setups? I'm sure there are some, but those are probably just the normal statistical failures.

When I get my controllers back, I will be going back to 4S and 5S setups, but I agree, Castle should maybe look into this to see if there is anything to your theory. It may help to explain why they get some of their controllers back for warranty work. After my experiences this week, I think you are on to something too. So basically this would also apply to heavy vehicles on 4 and 5S setups.

Yep it was on 4s. The battery is a Zippy 4s1p 3500mAh. Stickered as 30c

you must have had 2 of thoes packs wired in parellel right?


and as for the vast magority of 6s setups going bacg, yeah i guess it is pushing the envolope.
i run/race with 6s in my revo.
never had an issue but my setup isnt crazy either...not even trying to get speed runs.
geared 16/68 on a 3905 tranny and that equades to 40mph on std MTR tyres.
it just seems that people see 6s, and steriotypicaly assume it's ultimate speed and power with no drawbacks.

MABEY there should be a note in hte manual stating that 6s operation is recomended for advanced users only.

5s lipo or 6s2p A123 ftw :yipi:

ON another note, yeah, I hope there were two of those Zippies in parallel, as 3500mah x 30c = 105amps at best, and as much as I like the Zippies, I prefer lipos that can do 120amps plus, hence why I use a pair of 5s 25-35c 4000mah zippy-Hs in parallel to get me 200amps continuous for my hefty setup (lots of hard braking and violent acceleration and no dead esc yet).

Pardon my ignorance... but is there ANOTHER way you can brake without relying on the ESC?

Ha ha. Touche. I'm nearly positive that nothing got inside my can. I was running on gravel yes, but it wasn't like rocks were bouncing off the chassis. They were being thrown 20ft from the rear. Now... DUST was flying around, but dust shouldn't cause a motor to konk out should it? I mean... people race on DIRT which is far worse then the 10min gravel session I had!

I have a crap camera here I'll try and use to get a pic. But I have a feeling it ain't gonna be good news. I'm going to contact Neu as well.

Also, I think I might go ahead and buy a couple Flightmax 2s packs that are 30C or higher and go down to 4s rather than 6s just to be safe.

UNLESS you feel that if I gear down considerably on 6s, that would be just as safe. I'm just wondering... what gearing? 68/18?