too many people have an "it's just supposed to work" attitude. This is the extreme side of the r/c hobby and you'd think that the hundreds of dollars people spend on this hobby would give them a clue that these aren't "just toys". They modify them and change them and have no real knowledge of what they are doing, rather they're slapping together parts like a lego set, and then expect to drive it off a building at 75mph and think it shouldn't break. shit happens, things break, and sometimes it's nobody's fault.


[end rant]

You're right... That's why everyone should come to RC-Monster and ask questions before they setup.... :mdr:

Even then, it still happens....

Starting to feel I shoulda just bought a fucking Traxxas Stampede VXL as now im so upset and dissapointed im thinking about giving up again on the hobby like my Revo 3.3 did to me two years ago, more work and fustration then fun.

Woah, Take it easy there beefcake, Whats the problem, Your lipos coudln't take the amps everything was pulling from being in the grass. Like everybody said get a HIGHER VOLTAGE setup..

Yeah, you bought some smc lipos on spec alone, and they could not keep up. Happens all the time with maxamps products, and many other mfgs. Get some good solid proven packs and you will be fine. Any enerland 5000mah cell pack will be fine, and the hyperion g3 packs look good too. I have a feeling you could go with a 2 and 3s pack og the g3 lipos for under 200 bucks... That is what you spent on the smc packs. That and a smaller pinion and you will be surprised with the results.

Try to send the smc packs back and at least get some replacements. Sell them off and get something decent...

higher voltage with appropriate gearing and motor selection will give the optimum setup....only reason im running 4s on my NEU maxx is i am using a MM and 4s is already pushing it a bit.


quality differnece in $220 maxcraps (smc may be like maxamps..) and $180 neu packs with enerland 5000mah cells......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp94K0TGfTY

Maybe this was mentioned somewhere in this thread, but it looks like both packs puffed. Maybe it's just the angle of the pic (first one), but the one on the left looks puffed as well, just not as badly.

On a side note, I'm not really sure I like hard-case packs. Sure, they protect the lipos physically, but if they are tied down well enough, that shouldn't be a concern. My beef is that having packs enclosed doesn't exactly promote good airflow. And if they get too hot, they can puff. Maybe they were ok amp-wise, but since there was no cooling, they puffed anyway?

Oh, they both puffed, trust me

....id call em and see if they replace them... but remember to change gearing when taking the grass on. but in the end sounds to me the packs are bad.

sorry for your troubles and trust me i hear your frustration...but once it gets sorted out, its hella fun

I"m so upset I just wanna throw up. First my HDD fails on the 4th with all my data that I didn't back up, then my power supply croaks on my gaming rig last week, now this week my 50" Sony LCD screen has screen imperfection and NOW I can't drive my Flux anymore due to this Lipo shit storm.

I'm glad i'm leaving on vacation in a few days in the mountains, I hate everything tech wise right now.

I'm sorry man, you are having some bad luck lately... more like against all odds bad luck. I feel for ya. :whip:

Okay, if you do not need the 'most powerful' battery pack out there, then you should consider getting an A123 pack for your Flux, I am think a 6s2p pack would be a very good voltage for that motor. Hell man, I will even get the cells and build the packs for you!

You will be able to through EVERYTHING you could get the Flux to muster at the A123 pack and it would not give up on you, they are virtually indestructible, they last and last, and do not loose any performance over their entire life time.

Let us know what you are going to do. :smile:

Unless people have missed the umpteen eagletree graphs I have posted, nothing wrong with his set up at all, stock set up, Savage Flux 4s Lipo, max amp spike is 120 Amps that I have seen on my set up which is pretty much identical. I run 5000mah 30C packs and mine don't puff. Instead of helping we have a bunch of know alls preaching higher voltage, get better packs etc etc yet when he was toying with what packs to buy, people with the same attitude were asserting SMC is a "good brand"

No wonder he feels disenchanted with the hobby right now.

My guess is when the lipos first puffed a bit as you stated some damage may have been done, and it's cascaded from there, as my testing has shown, a 3.2v/cell lipo cut off on the MMM is insufficient and doesn't stop the packs dropping below that under amp load, just another shortfall of a problem plagued ESC.

Query it with SMC, up your LVC to 3.5v/cell and remember that there are some people who just like to bombard you with you should and you shouldn't do's on forums, human nature.

Actually I tried A123 a few yrs back, bought 2 of the 2s2p 4600mah packs for an E-Savage, even the flashy Hypersonic Charger that A123systems brought out.

both packs failed in the first fortnight and got no reply from the company re warranty

Didn't work for me, but obviously working for you, just how it is I guess

That pretty much sums up my feelings.

Both packs failed? WTF were you doing to them? Were you shorting the leads out? lol

I find that very odd that they would fail, even when you only have a 4s2p pack in an E-Savage.

I have been running both a 7s1p and a 7s2p pack in my trucks for the last 3 years and have had none fail on me, the 7s1p pack still goes strong like day one and I have bagged the snot out of it. I now run Hyperion G3 35C packs, these things are truly outrageous... going from the A123 packs to my other 25C Enerland packs was a huge difference, then the G3's are another big jump in craziness again.

You tell me and no, I was not doing that.

Not to kick the cow more, but, I've heard that the Badlands in average, even very short grass can rip pieces out of the ground, seeds, etc.

Now, if tires are this grippy, couldn't this cause more... strain on the drivetrain? Since the badlands are getting so much grip into the soil, it's almost like it's binding.

Or am I just being stupid again?"

Freezebyte, it does sound like you're getting the evil fairy of technology.... Hopefully things will be better... They should be.

I was referring to FastBaja5B.

Kind of like you... That last statement does not really hold much water dude.

I for one would never recommend smc packs, and have not. General consensus is that an enerland cell pack will have the least mfg defects and early deaths. So they are the best bet right now due to them being well proven. I have handles countless puffed lipos, and have seen the least amount of defective cells come from enerland.

The packs puffed for some reason, either being overdrawn, or the voltage pulled too low and then pulled very hard. I think they have been marginal the whole time he has been running them, and they finally gave it up.

I have run countless motors with the MMM in various vehicles and set my lvc to 3.2v per cell. No issues at all, not one, ever. I even ran a completely dead fp 4500 30c 6s lipo (by accident) in the muggy for a few minutes and wondered why the damn thing was stuttering so bad, figured the lipo was cold. It was the lvc kicking in, but the pack was good enough to provide enough juice to pop the voltage back up to rearm the MMM. Put 4700mah back in that pack, no puffing, and no loss of performance since. The MMM lvc works fine, if your cells can't handle the load and dip below the lvc while you are running you have bigger problem, like your cells are not up to the task. Plus the eagletree sampling rate is pretty high, and I am sure the MMM has some amount of flexibility in its measuring.

Plus the 3v per cell thing has a fair amount of saftery window, you can discharge a lipo down to 2v, and unless it was a very high load the cell will charge up fine.

Bottom line is that your graphs may say that he only needs 120 amps, but who is to say the smc lipo ratings are close at all. They puffed, and it does not seem like user error or the fault of the MMM. The tall grass loaded the motor, it asked for more and the lipos failed, not the first time this has happened.

If you are hitting the lvc before the pack is almost empty, then you need a better lipo with a higher rating, no way around that logic.

And FB, keep the language a little more PG... We do have younger members.

I feel your frustration, and have been through this exact lipo issue with maxamps a while back. Weak packs will cause all kinds of grief...

Ermmm, he was talking to fastbaja5b. :whistle:

yeah he was asking me how both A123 packs failed when I had them, and to that, the only thing I can think of is a faulty charger, as they were fine when I used my Lipo - A123 / Nimh charger but failed once I used their proprietory "A123 Hypersonic" charger.

He quotes me, yet was referring to B5B... that's logical.

And Linc put the effort in the make a very good post... listen to what he is saying.

And he is also correct, no one on this forum would 'recommend' SMC packs, we never have, unless you bought them already and then asked if they were okay, and someone may have said "ya, they are okay".... they are unproven, and unknown cells.

If you want reliability and still have plenty of power, go for an A123 pack, I can personally testify to the robustness of these things, I have used them for 3 years now; overcharging them, over discharging them many times, taken them over the rated limits (seen over 60C bursts on my 7s1p pack), and they come back for more.

If you want the best performance and quality in a pack, then go for Hyperion G3's, FP EON X30's, or Neu packs.... or if you are tired of spending money on packs, go for Zippy/Turnigy packs, dirt cheap and they perform, and have a good track record thus far.

But before you decide what pack you want, obviously check with SMC what they can do for you. Maybe tell them your situation. :whistle::smile:

Could very well be the charger, I never liked the looks of those things from day one. I have used a programmable lab quality power supply to charge my A123 packs, very accurate and reliable.

I, for one, don't find anything wrong with your setup freeze. Those things run just fine out of the box on 4s lipo. Running in grass does put added strain on the whole system but as long as nothing was running abnormally hot it should be fine. I go WOT through grass all the time in my Muggy and it heats things up a bit but I keep the temps below my maximums (I stop at 160 on the motor, 110 at the lipos, and on my non-MMM cars 170 on the ESC). See if SMC will replace the lipos, if they do I'd continue doing what you're doing. If not then you'll need to fork over the money for some better lipos, and it might be a good idea to try what linc said and go with a 17T pinion on 5s (2s+3s). It will have more power than it does now, should run cooler, and similar top speed.

4s lipo is just fine for use in MTs and Truggies. My Muggy weighs in around 16 pounds and I've run 4s almost exclusively through it for the past year. Currently my gearing is taller than it should be (I get almost 50 MPH out of it, too fast for something this heavy) and my motor, MMM, and lipos handle it fine--the motor gets a bit hot after about 10 minutes but that's to be expected.

EDIT: If SMC won't cover you, we can give your lipos the same sendoff I gave my old Maxamps pack :wink: I just picked up my new Remington mdl. 870 Super Magnum the other day and I'm itching to try it out on something :party:

setting the LVC down to 3.5V doesn't make any sense... Like Linc said, 3.0 is a lot of safety.. I set my LVC on my PolyQuest packs down to 2.8V per cell whevever I can. But I do stop soon as the LVC kicks in or when the LVA goes off. But different packs needs different parameter. But SMC, i have never bought their packs.. and probably never will, I'm happy with the packs I have. Freeze, I do feel your pain man... "When it rain, it poors!"... I still think it's the batteries...

I have one of those power analyzers, and before I run each setup I test it out. This is what I do, I hold my setup to the ground. I push to full throttle, then down to half throttle, then back up to full throttle slowly, then back down to half, then to full throttle quickly. That is how I test my amp draw. I figure, there's no bigger load, that when the car is on the cement with a 200Lb brick behind it... Just my thoughts. I still thick it's your batteries..

I've run my Flux in several situations where it should have put quite a load on my packs and I've had no issues.

I've run it across low grass on 6S with Badlands on it (53mph on GPS even).
I've run it on a track on 4S and 5S packs with LPR Crimefighters on it.
I've run it on a beach on 5S with big ass Losi 420 Sand Wedges on it.

I have not had a single heat issue with any of my power system components in any of those situations. I run the stock 20T pinion and packs are as follows:

2 X 2S 25C Enerland 5100mAh Hard Case Packs
2S + 3S 25C Thunder Power 5000mAh Packs
3S + 3S 25C Neu 4900mAh Packs

Based on my experiences, I'd just simply say ditch the SMC packs and buy something better. I've seen numerous posts on RCtech lately about puffing SMC packs or disconnected balance tap wires. That's enough for me to stay the heck away from buying them. If I were to go buy any new packs for my Flux right now, they'd be Hyperion G3's without a doubt.

Did you by chance purchase those on Ebay from "hopmeup"? If so, I'm guessing you were one of many who ended up buying old cells. There was a thread on this a year or so back. I bought six packs from them, and ended up with 4 after I rebuilt them and pulled out the bad cells.

Back to the topic at hand - Freeze ya need a break from this. Still not an excuse to use language like that.
I for one have a hard time thinking that both packs puffing at the same time is due to bad cells. If it is, you definitley got some bad mojo going.

I'm quite impressed if you can run 5S on the beach w/ 40s and not fry anything. If I was designing the system from the ground up, I would still use higher voltage/lower kv motor, but whatever works. Its not worth trashing the system tho.

So, it comes down to drving or batts. Unless you are a really rough driver, its gotta be the batts. Best of luck on the next set, but I would really be sure to stick to a known quantity, either Neu, Enerland, Hyperions or the cells Mike sells (the now branded CTech) In fact Mike has a hardcase 2S 5200 pack for the same price you paid for the SMCs. Sucks you are test dummy on these, hope you get some cash or replacement cells back.

I was quite surprised myself with the temps of it. Of course when it just lights up the tires no matter the viscosity of the sand, it's not like the motor is having to pull gobs of current to get going.

Yeah I did actually, likely a contributing factor!

Can you run a 3s and a 2s on the Flux? The manual says both pack needs to be equal. I didn't think I could even run a 5000mah and a 5100mah pack or a 28C and a 30C pack, what I interpreted was both packs must be identical.

Yes, you can run a 2S and 3S in there without an issue. They must be the same brand, capacity and C rating though. I run 2S and 3S 25C Thunder Power 5000's in mine.

Think of it as the cells have to be the same brand, capacity etc., preferably with the same amount of runs. They need to be balanced together and you should be good to go. You could run a 2s and a 6s pack together if they were the same cells..

Everyones suggesting other Lipos, but no ones providing links on where to purchase them.

on a side note: when I started in brushless I fried a very expensive Hacker setup, several hv-maxx setups and countless nimh batteries. For you're first brushless setup you're really not doing too bad. Wrenching and failures are part of the hobby. Think top fuel dragsters that need to rebuild their motor after each run.

link for neu batts: http://www.neumotors.com/Site/Welcome.html

RCM batts (they're all good) http://www.rc-monster.com/batteries.php

your batteries are your power source, the more you spend on batteries the happier you'll be

Google.com

You can get the hyperion G3 packs at all e rc. However support Mike and get some lipos from the RCM store!

Or you can look around like the rest of us do.

Any luck with returning the packs to SMC?

Lots all at the RCM store

But if you need more selection-
Hyperion 35c vx packs - http://www.allerc.com/
C-tech - http://www.rc-monster.com/products.php?cat=120
Zippies (if you're on a budget)- http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...5&ParentCat=85
Polyquest (enerland, cheaper price) - http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...7&ParentCat=85


The flightpowers out now are enerland but the new EON-X packs will be similar to hyperion packs, probably better.

helpmyfingersarebroken.com

:lol: