The number of head was when he my uncle and another guy were in it together. When he sold his part of the ranch they had it went to less than 100. They had hired help that lived on the land and worked the cattle full time of course. I just hated medication, branding, and tagging time. Luckily by the time I was a teenager he had gotten completely out. I still did other work for some people cutting/raking hay and what not. Sometimes I miss riding a tractor around.

On the conspiracy front, I don't not believe that they sometimes happen. I do however not believe when they are offered with outlandish stories and no facts to back them up.

I am with JThiessen on the tankers, so we get rid of them, what else do we use? I am all for alternatives, but we must have viable solutions that do not create new and greater issues than their predecessors. The US is really bad about jumping on the different is better routine without really knowing what they are getting into. I just always have a problem with it's better because it's different or better because it's better routine so prevelent.

Lot's of things are good ideas in theory, but one must remember theory without proper research and testing is still theory.

No, he in fact said container ships, from your thread on GW: "Another tid bit, did you know that the top 15 largest container ships in the world right now put out more emissions than ALL the world vehicles. That's insane"

And I provided the link, post #34.

But yeah, we didn't even consider cruise ships did we?

Sorry if this thread has taken an unwanted turn, but the title is "Electric Cars: the reality", not "Electric Cars: duckies, bunnies and worn out fairy tales".

As plainly as I can put it, if you want unorthodox answers, stop looking for orthodox explanations.

We can make this happen, but the vaunted "conventional wisdom" needs to take a flying leap.

Redshift - Sorry, I must have missed that link - in fact I went back and looked just now, and it only has 27 posts in it, and no linky from you.

So I just did a search for the data on that, and found the EPA report on it. http://www.epa.gov/oig/reports/2009/...-09-P-0125.pdf Nowhere does it say that only 15 ships account for that much pollution.
And further in:
NOTICE: thats ALL Cat 3 (large ocean going size) marine engines, not just 15, only emitted half the total for the US.
There are three main categories of emissions, NOx, SO2, and one other, but only the SOx was more than 50%.


Did anyone see the Monster Garage episode where they powered a drag car using about 400 Milwaulkee Battery Packs? I only got to see the last 20 minutes of it - but after the robot guy got the speed control tuned it turned the 1/4 mile right at 100mph - somewhere in the 14's if I remember correctly.

One thing that is bugging me is the fact the the first automobiles made were electric. What would have been if they would just keep them that way? My head is hurting from trying to figure out what kind of battery we would have today, specially how the electronic technologies are changing at a faster pace then what the IC technology is. If anyone here has the capabilities to put something together like an estimate number, please do so as my little brain is just about to explode :lol:.

JThiessen - There are supposedly ~780 million cars in the world, and what you posted states more NOx pollution than 800 million cars. But then again there are more than 15 container ships in the world, so either one of them is off... or it could just be that the ships have increased in size THAT much over the last 9 years.


Lutach - I know! There were more electrics on the road than gasoline powered at the turn of the 20th century. The baker electric car had a range of 100+ miles and a top speed of 25mph. I too can't even imagine what kind of battery, or more likely exotic power source we would have if electric was the dominating way.

It was all about the Rothschild s, J.P. Morgan, and other powerful families/figures that drastically influenced the course of automotive development (and they were the money changers as well, still controlling from behind the curtain today), as they had all this oil, and nothing to use it in, until gasoline cars were made more convenient than before, as they would have to get out of the car and crank it, not to mention preheating the engine with a fire.

Everything is bull$#!T, seriously, it's all bull$#!T.... almost every sector, every industry, everything is based on a lie.

You nailed it. A lot of things now are either just to get attention and most important, a lot of money. All of the big corp. companies don't give a flying F:oh::gasp::oops:. It's sad, but it's the truth.

There's a good rant on diesel and conspiricies and gov BS in this thread here - http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...brid-7513.html

I'm a bit late to this discussion but as mentioned before, of the techs currently available nuclear is the best option for electricity imo. Just model it after the French system. Not only do we get cheap electric for cars but we can eliminate all the fossil fueled power plants which are a major contributor to greenhouse gases. Nuclear as a standard would be a tough sell in the U.S. though. Too many ignorant/uneducated people combined with special interest groups feeding them the b.s.

As far as electric cars, it will be very interesting to see the evolution of batteries and motors over the next few years. Humans are quite resource and inventive when they have to be.

TDI's and other advanced diesels are awesome. As cool as the elec car could be (a bit biased here obviously) its rediculous we don't have good small diesels here. The few you can get are overpriced VWs (fvcl< VWs btw.)

Really, until battery tech comes along, I don't understand why there are not more small cars w/ diesels. Plus they last forever. I would get one of those way before a hybrid (which just seems too complicated to be reliable long term, esp if it has NIMH batts.)

Another BS move was GM buying out all the commuter rails then ripping them out. Then they get Congress to use our tax dollars to subsidize road building, where rail lines have to build and maintain their own tracks. Totally unfair adv, skewing the system.

I wonder what we could do if we invested more equally in high speed rail across the country, and took a large number of trucks off the road, freeing up the highways quite a bit. Rail is far more efficient than road travel, and does not pose the traffic hazards cranked out semi drivers do trying to make their delivery times. You need trucks on local routes, but driving a truck from LA to STL @ 60mph (not including rest stops, traffic and sleeping) burning up 10X the amt of fuel seems fraking stupid.

Could replace a lot of air travel as well. They are not as fast as a plane, but you waste so much time at an airport (also taxpayer subsidized), it may balance out quite a bit. The east coast is crowded, but in the midwest and west, you can lay tracks all over the place. 250-300mph on land can get you from NYC to LA pretty fast.

I wonder how much we could reduce FF use just by doing things more sensibly.

Don't forget that Amtrak is heavily subsidized by the fed, not too mention that every other passenger rail system in the US is owned by some form of government local, state, or federal. Of course rail would not be here period if it had not been heavily subsidized and influenced via the government.

The only way I support rail is by investing in mag-lev technology. It is the most efficient means for commuter rail today. It's quiet too.

As far as the big companies I hold no harsh feelings for them. They are what got many great things to where they are today. No reason to hate that. Any individual tries to influence things to their best interests as well for the most part. You also most note that most all of these large companies started off small.

In fact the computer you are typing on is made by a large company, the internet, well you had better thank AT&T and Verizon for the lines. It's all big business and we all enjoy it, no reason to hate.

I can tell you this for sure, I have never made a penny nor had my life made better by anyone sitting around ranting about conspiracy theories.

Going back to the big ocean liners, my question again is: How else do you move that much cargo more efficiently? I can guarantee you reap the benefits of their existence in more ways than 1.

I sincerely hope I didn't come across as ranting....

I don't think the container ship pollution was pointed out so much as something to be solved, but more that the focus on cars as the worst source of pollution is really a bit silly.

I'd like to extend a personal thank you to the members who are willing to go out on a limb with unpopular ideas, and who are not afraid to take some flak.

This is how real progress is made and I hope to be a part of it. Even if some people want me to stick my head back in the sand....

Not happenin':no:

Eh, problem with sand is that it still has some air pockets in it!!!:lol:


When discussing problems and solutions, people will tend to get overwhelmed when looking at the bigger picture, and not do anything. I'll use the ships as an example - why bother doing anything with auto's when ships/trucks/trains all put out about as much or more than the cars do? They will get so involved in trying to come up with the impossible solution, they will end up frustrated and defeated and walk away without doing anything. With such a vast issue, we/they gotta hit the easy stuff first (commuter cars, it appears), and put our faith in our ability to take a technology and improve it.

Personally, I've been forcing myself to run some biodiesel in my truck. Mileage is worse, price is higher. Will biofuels ever replace petro? I doubt it, but maybe with me and many others dumping our money into it, they might develop something better down the road - plus it puts some of the money back here in the states.

Mag lev technology is some cool stuff. Did you know that they have developed it as an energy source now? Couple years back we had some folks from our Phantom Works dept (now there's some conspiracy work there!!!) come in and give a demo on it as a power source. I dont think I am allowed to describe the process, but our application was that we were implementing a moving line for the airplanes, and one of the issues was how do we supply power to the mechanics and power the crawlers to move the airplane(s) without having this gigantic extension chord. Well, it turned out that we now have a huge extension chord.....

One solution to the container ships is to not ship it. At least for the "import" side we could bring that manufacturing back here......yeah, right......

Well, truth is I am actually from the planet Ylkhdsbn, (closest phonetic equivalent in the English language) and I do not require your planet's filthy oxygen to survive. In fact our species thrives in a hydrocarbon environment, which is why we have set in place such wonderful technologies that you have mistakenly thought were your own. Foolish naive human. Did you really think you came up with the internal combustion engine?

As you humans say, pffft.

Good one btw JT... but those air pockets don't last long.... at least that is what I am told. :lol:

Well a great alternative, and a replacement to container ships that is more efficient, much lower costs, and more reliable is BLIMP baby! There are designs out there that are over 300m square, and would use a small fraction of the fuel that a container ship uses to move per cargo.

Besides that, if the whole economic system was not a capital type system, then we would be doing all of our own manufacturing, our own work, and not slave labor in some distant land.

I too agree that the new Nuclear power systems are quite good, and should be seriously considered. Although, the cold fusion debate is quite heated right now, and I personally believe that it works. The whole B. Stanley Pons and Martin Fleischmann harassment when it was supposedly 'debunked' in '89 was ridiculous.

Some scientists from here in Canada just recently came up with a very cheap nuclear fusion system. HERE.


Remember, there is a big difference between conspiracy theories , and a conspiracy... a theory has no evidence for, whereas the latter does.

I see a few people bring up environment & don`t realize what it takes to process petroleum.The Province of Alberta supplies alot of the petroleum to North America & the ecological damage is just beginning to show.
To process the tar sands they have physically remove the earth from a open pit mine & then taken to be separated so the Petroleum.Theirs evidence that ground water is being poisoned & wildlife/plant life are being effected.
I guess my point is that for a car to pollute it needs gas & it just more then what comes out the tail pipe of the vehicle that the probelm

Sort of back to the beginning but the last electric car I read about in rc car and driver. Its battery was $16,000 but it could only be used to 50% of burn out rate (1 run for maxamps) doh. j/k but at that rate it could be used to store the solar power for a house for 20 years. resold to housing as that for near $8g. After that of course they didnt talk about. 400lbs of lipo X 500,000 dont even want to think about, but a good short term solution

yeah, it's disgusting what has happened to Fort McMurray, you can see the place from space... looking at north America, on google earth, it stands out like a sore thumb. They want to do the same thing here in Saskatchewan now, makes me sad, destroying our beautiful province.


Also, one of the biggest, if not the biggest concerns that should be at top priority of people is our food. Chemicals can not be used on the land anymore as it is destroying the soil, our health, and our future. My family run a certified organic oil crushing plant, mainly Flax oil (should be apart of everyone's diet), and we buy as much organic foods as possible, and keep processed foods to a minimum. The food people are eating is the main culprit to the rise in cancer these days, and many many other health issues/diseases.

I bring up these other issues because we just don't have one problem of transportation... I could go on, and on, and on, page after page of just a note of the problems in the world. It's everywhere. Something has to change... and I hate to say it, but the world cannot support 6+billion people for much longer, something has to give. I can see something happening soon, as so many things are coming to a crossroads: political, geographical, biological processes, astronomical/ cycles... it's scary really, there are too many coincidences to just say poof poof. Maybe those year 2012 prophecies have something to them?

Back to electric cars... SSC (Shelby SuperCars) of USA have their Ultimate Aero EV coming this year. 1000hp and IIRC, around 3000lbs, that is quite a bit higher power/weight ratio than our powerful Bl R/C's, and it can actually put it down to the ground. :yipi:

Funny thing you mentioned SSC. They did get funds from a company, but I have yet to see the car. I hope they can back what they're saying, it would be nice.

Yeah, would be nice... it's still a mystery as to what they meant at the first announcement about "several years between recharging" ?

Any links to this?

http://www.shelbysupercars.com/news-012209.php

Enjoy. :smile:

Interesting. I initially wasn't going to check out that link - I had presumed this was a division of a Carol Shelby company - and how wrong I was....It seems very wrong to me for them to use that name, especially in this industry - but then I grew up in the Shelby glory days.

Ya, the guy who founded the company a few years ago, his name is Jared Shelby, no relation. They prefer to be known as SSC.

No one seems to know about SSC strangely, because they have the record for fastest road going production car.