Quite probable that I'm an idiot, so can you guys enlighten me on this hidden message?

Loved the movies but not sure about the 3D. I'd like to see it in 2D for comparison. I wear glasses and the 3D glasses fit over them but I saw a decent amount of blurring in my peripheral but I am guessing this is glasses related since others have not complained about it. Also some 3D images(such as plants) looked like paper 3D. No real body to them. Others were fantastic.

You have a point, And I understand the parallel story line between American Indians/settlers.

But I didn't like the vibe, that it was wrong to be human at the end of the movie.

I guess I took the meaning a little different, that it bad to be a human acting selfishly/thoughtlessly.
Bit of a spoiler, so highlight below to read:

In the end, two humans were accepted, Jake and Grace. The Col interpreted this as betraying their race, but can also be seen as making different moral choices, that it was wrong to exterminate life for the gain of resources they may have. Right? That was pretty up front IMO. Jake was called stupid for so long as he didn't understand the value of (all) life, but later did, along w/ Grace, and was brought into the clan.

The other humans were still not so enlightened, ex the marine chick and the other avatar guys.
So Cameron managed to setup a story where we root against the humans/cowboys, not unlike Dances with Wolves. DwW I don't think condemns all white people, but views history with a different prospective to challenge assumptions. I think Avatar can be seen doing the same.

I saw another subtext in the movie as anti-imperialism and anti-war for resources vis a vis the Iraq War. There were a number of references to DefSec Rumsfeld ("shock and awe" campaign) and the Col. You could easily substitute "unobtainium" for oil in a lot of ways. Not that I think the movie is supposed to be an anti Bush rant, and one shouldn't get carried away with the metaphors, but it does uses some of that imagery to build its point.

Anyway, might be wrong on some of that, would have to watch again as a lot of things were going on. Def worth watching again tho.

Humm I thought the movie was showing us that we're killing tress and we should stop. :neutral: Great movie tho

In some respects I think he threw the whole kitchen sink in there. I guess waiting 15yrs to make the movie left a guy with a lot on his mind. :lol:

yeah the hidden message...well...not really hidden, was disturbing but is still a good movie when you put that out of your head.

Ahh..... "disturbing" that was the word I was looking for.


Btw how the heck did we get talking about the Ethics of this movie?


Any one want to right a letter to Cameron and ask him wtf is up? :lol:

That movie had a giant monkey? All I saw was a giant di...... Wait a minute, I thought you were talking about King Dong. I knew it did not have a monkey in it, I about wore out my vhs copy with the pause button.

As for King Kong I never really enjoyed it, the original or the recent remake. But alot of movies try to deal with the issue of human "greed". Problem is most movie makes are not philosophers (sp?) so alot of their point is lost on the more intelligent. And stupid people miss everything. So the "target" audience is basically the peers of the director.

I have been meaning to go to this movie, and almost went tonight but I got a quasi-migrane headache and had to sit in a dark room while I pondered the existance of dog (I am dyslexic). Nothing against these "fantasy world" type of movies but they are really not my bag. I love science fiction, but sometimes the plot takes a bachseat to the "impressive visual effects" and I hope that is not the case with this movies.

For the record most movies attempt to highlight human flaws. It is the base of "story" in general. Kind of like modern day fables, entertaining but also trying to impress upon us the importance to see the big picture.

I can just see the lettter:

Deat Cammy, WTF were you thinking??

Love a bunch of fools on a tiny car forum!

Just watch out the movie in the 3D.looks amazing one.:lol:

I finally went to see this movie last night, and was VERY impressed with it! It is probably my favorite movie ever.

lol... glad you liked it Brian.

@ Linc sorta and whomever:

I don't want to be misunderstood in that every movie is/or tries to be existential, and that every little thing has some deep esoterical meaning. Michael Bay movies are about as deep as a Britney Spears autobiography, but with a few less train wrecks and explosions.

However, films are obviously an art form and some are more serious than others.
Its said that there are only 7 basic plots to all human story telling, and some explore the themes more than others. Also, there is a good level of craft going into the films, and sometimes it takes a bit of education to see the devices and intentions the directors are building on and what they are trying to do with them. I'll yammer on below.

Camerons are good IMO as they are a more substantial than just a std blow 'em up movie, but still have enough action to be fun, unlike some artsy fartsy borefest.

EG. Aliens (Ridley Scott did Alien, and his movies tend to have depth and meaning as well.)

On one level its a good action movie vs baddass aliens, with cyborgs, impalements, spaceships, and lots of guns and gore and stuff you can make into toys and sell to kids.
However, there is a lot of subtext in the movie. You see it, but its not always immediately obvious unless you know to look for it, and once you see it, you see alot of it.

On its deepest level, it a movie of hostile masculinity vs feminity, and all the rape fanatasy that goes with it.
The Aliens are giant peens. They have peen heads, with tiny fanged peens that shoot out of thier mouths to stab/impale and kill you. (ie violent rape) Not to mention they are dripping with goo that will also burn and kill you.
http://lh6.ggpht.com/kenny.yeo23/R-d...5BUNSET%5D.jpg

They have tiny babies that fly thru the air, wrap around your face and throat F you all so they can shoot their seed into your belly, so another tiny peen alien will be birthed by stabing thru your gut and again killing you.
http://buelahman.files.wordpress.com...estburster.jpg

Then there is Ripley, a human woman, who battles with the aliens. The director sets up a lot of female imagery around her char. There is a scene where she is soundly sleeping in the ship, locked in a small, bright, all white room, while its all quiet other than the soothing sound of the ship drumming like a heartbeat. Ie, its a womb. Nothing else happens in the scene, and no other point of it being in the film other than to build imagery. Lots of other scenes establishing the ship as maternal, as well as Ripley as a "mother" figure. You get the idea.

They have another scene where a male human cyborg char tries to strangle Ripley after his betrayal is revealed by jamming a porno mag down her throat. (he was thought to be human until then and was injured.) In another scene, a cyborg also secretly betrays the humans, and is eventually destroyed. His body is torn apart so that the inner fluids all spill out, which happens to be a sticky white fluid. Gee, what's the imagery? Human on the outside, a seeming ally, meanwhile a secret betrayer on the inside who happens to have jizz for blood. Righto. Message recieved.

Its been a while since I watched those movies, so some of the stuff is mixed between Alien and Aliens as best I remember. But you get the idea.
Point is, many things are done intentionally. From set design, chars, camera angles & cinematography to every scene. Stating the obvious yes, but its easy to forget while immersed in the film. Somethings are not very noticable or taken for granted until you ask why the director put them there.

Our focus might be in the foreground, but there are things in the background that are saying something. EG Blade Runner (another Ridley Scott film,) there are scenes where Harrison Ford is talking, the focus on him, but just behind him over his shoulder in the bg, there is a huge stuffed owl mounted on the wall with its talons out looking as if its coming down onto its prey. (sry, can't find a pic) Well the story is Ford is a detective hunting down and killing rogue cyborgs. Ie, he's a predator. He's solitary, works in the shadows to track his prey, and comes down on them with lethal efficiency. Not an accident the owl is mounted on the wall, not a coincidence the way the shot is framed. The foreground is off center to make space for the owl to be prominant in the bg. It's building the imagery of Ford's char within the film. (note that this does not mean every meaning and image is supposed to be highly esoteric, pondering the existence of man in the uni. Often it just has meaning with context of the film. Not everything/most things are supposed to be some Freudian headtrip.)

One other last one from Blade Runner, but you see it alot in films:
http://www.brmovie.com/Images/Charac...Batty_Dove.jpg
What is this? You kinda have to know the scene and movie to follow, but basically this is the villan of the film, the cyborg leader near the final death scene.
He's been wounded, and is bleeding from the head, maybe even the side, as well as his hands have been shot and otherwise impaled by Ford (see hole in hand in pic) and knows death is near. Regardless he is holding a dove and boldly faces martyrdom. What's the image here? An obvious Jesus figure.
Cyborg is a man created by another man (immaculate conception?), is rejected by man, and is persecuted. He is not supposed to be Jesus himself tho, but the imagery helps build the story/char. The cyborg finds his creator and kills him iirc. Ford is the one who finds and wounds him, and finally kills him. The cyborg collapses and falls, laying like a crucifix. Lots of other biblical imagery going on too, such as rain like a baptismal.

What all that imagery does then is to confound the story at the end and make it tragic. What starts off as a clear Detective as good guy/ Cyborg as evil murdering robot, by the end we are not so sure of which side is right, and it turns tragic. The cyborg's death is disturbing and not the satisfaction we were looking forward to in the beginning. Perspectives got challenged and turned around on the audience.
Its a good movie regardless if you are not aware of this subtext, and you still get the point really. However, all this artistic work serves to enhance and enrichen the movie, so it can be enjoyed on many levels. Part of the fun of a movie IMO is trying to see all this and understand what it means within the movie.

Wow! You really like to dissect movies, don't you? :smile:

Ive seen it twice now really enjoyed it, one of my top 5 ever! Will be interested to see how it transfers to the small screen if it still holds the same magic

lol.. what can you say. I am very analytical and I can't not see it now I know these things are intentionally there.

I'm really not that bad tho. Not like I'm hanging out at the coffee bars arguing with stoned out art majors on whether the Navi'i's blue skin is a metaphor for man's inner struggle for social acceptance, as influenced by Earnest Bullshinski's 15th century poem about a dead parrot. ;)
They are blue because shit looks cool and goes well with all the other flourescent colors.

Sure Finnster,
Sigourney Weaver was not bad in Alien, But now she's no reason to go see any movie.

Jesus Christ Finn, ya either enjoyed the movie or ya didn't, it doesn't have to turn into a scientific vs theological dissection

lol. I watch/enjoy movies for the sake of escape from reality, not to analyze. At least that's what I try to do - sometimes the movies are so bad it's hard not to pick them apart. I was impressed at the "realistic" alien/world and how the CG blended so well with "reality". Usually, I look at the nuances of the CG to see how realistic it is, but with this movie, I got too caught up in the whole experience. There was just something viscerally appealing.

:) A good friend of mine was a music minor in college (analytical chemist major lol.)
Needless to say he had a large classic music library, played in the ochestra, and we'd talk about things and he'd tell me about the musical structure and different elements in the composition.
He'd play them on the stereo, but I couldn't hear it. It still sounded nice tho and I liked listening to it.

The movie is so good and realistic, its giving people depression or "Avatar Blue's"

http://www.cnn.com/2010/SHOWBIZ/Movi...ues/index.html

Cyborg actually saves Ford's life in the end. I believe Cyborg died because of preprogrammed life span not because of injury. (not to nitpick) ....but interesting analysis.

ditto!!
but i wish they went with the producers icea to film in 30fps rather than the somewhat clunky 24fps. the idea was that we would be awed by the 3D-ness so worry about the "strobing"

I saw this article just now, thought you guys would be interested... "Some see racist theme in alien adventure 'Avatar' (AP)"

"Strange as it may seem for a film that pits greedy, immoral humans against noble denizens of a faraway moon, "Avatar" is being criticized by a small
but vocal group of people who allege it contains racist themes — the white hero once again saving the primitive natives."

Alien

These are probably the the same narrowminded dumbasses who made this

[YOUTUBE]t5OJct6vFJg[/YOUTUBE]

:lol:... that's just wrong...

lol... who's to say the film wasn't racist to whites? The barbaric and warlike white imperialists come to destroy the peaceful and harmonious natives to feed their gluttony. The great white warrior has a trancedent experience, as taught to him by the beautiful native princess, and he turns his back on his wicked ways to overcome his weakness and become their greatest champion. [/sarcasm]

Maybe I can blog that all over the place and Yahoo can write a story about it. Its easy to misconstrue racial themes when they are looked at so simplemindedly. If you wanted to get all radical and hardcore, my sarcastic version is prolly closer to the truth then those dumbasses.
Is it a story told from a white perspective? Well yeah.
If it borrows from the story of the settlement of America by European settlers and war against the Indians, then you wouldn't tell it from an African or Asian perspective, as they were not around.

Hi,
My mom & dad want to take my kids to this movie, so for anyone that has seen it do you think it's OK for a 6 year old boy and 9 year old girl??

Should be fine. I can't recall any obscenities (hard to remember when you aren't specifically listening for them) - even if there is, it's nothing worse than what is said at school (mostly sh*t, hell, that type of thing), and nudity is limited to brief side breast shots of the alien women (its the type of clothing they run around in), and maybe butt cheeks since they wear small loincloth/thong thingies. There is only one "sex" scene between aliens but it's pretty mild. Obviously, there is violence and some blood. Not too sure if the plot will hold a 6 year olds attention, especially since it is over 2 1/2 hour movie.

Other then some foul language that does include the F-bomb, I shouldn't see anything wrong with it.

I just saw it again for the 3rd time this Sunday and I wanna go a 4th!

i thought that was fecking funny!!!:lol:
the tree...not black? umm....LOL
the spider? :rofl:

IDK about a 6yo, watch this re-enactment and see what you think:

<object width="512" height="296"><param name="movie" value="http://www.hulu.com/embed/rqwJ-Vz2BkGf-rC3UBJgrg"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.hulu.com/embed/rqwJ-Vz2BkGf-rC3UBJgrg" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowFullScreen="true" width="512" height="296"></embed></object>

HAHAHAHA! That was the corniest reenactment/spoof I have seen in a long time...but funny none the less:rofl:

Well after a little more research I decided the boy (6 year old) will stay with us. No way can he sit still for over 2.5 hr’s. Thanks for all the advice

Probably a good idea, with the previews its over 3 hours easily

Holy crap Finn:surprised:

I don't watch much t.v. or many movies at all(except for Fight Club, I watch that once a week?:neutral:) I just don't care at all for sensationalism. I'm too literal. But after reading this whole thread I want to see this movie. Looking forward to the side boob:)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBcBD...eature=related

I thought I saw some nip in there too. IDK. I'm dying to watch it again.

Either way, if the chick is 10ft tall, that equates to some massive boobage.


Need to watch FC and Office Space again. Two of my all time favorites.

I am Jack's Flaming Urethra. I get infected, I hurt Jack. lol :)

sweet, office space is once a month. my favorite photoshop jpeg is the office space crew standing above the destroyed copier, but the copier is replaced with a dead horse. damn it feels good to be a gangster!

Peter: "This isn't so bad. Being outside, making some bucks, getting some exercise."

Lawrence: "F---ing A man."

Peter: "F---ing....... A........."




Milton: "I could set the building on fire........"




Micheal: "If we get caught laundering money, were not going to white collar resort prison. No no, were going to federal pound me in the ass prison!"




Peter: "You see Bob, its not that i'm lazy, its that I just don't care"




Tom: "You know that their are people in this world that don't have to put up with all this shit? You know like that guy that made the pet rock, ya see thats what you gotta do, ya gotta use your mind and come up with some really great idea and then you can make millions and never work again!"

Micheal: "You think the pet rock was a really great idea?"

Tom: "Sure it was! I mean the guy made a million dollars. Ya know.....I had an idea like that once....a long time ago"

Peter: "Really, what was it Tom?"

Tom: "Well alright, it was a jump to a conclusion mat!"

Samir: *WTF look*

Tom: "You see it would be this mat and it would have different conclusions written on it, that you could.....jump to!"

Micheal: "That is the worst idea i've ever heard Tom......"

Samir: "Yes....its horrible...horrible......"

it's a red swingline