I know someone said they weight less than NiMH, but more than Lipos of the same voltage/capacity, but how do they compare weight-wise once removed from the case?

Right, which is why we would be worried about power/energy density. Heavy duty is what they need to be, they are going into power tools that have high stall currents and that might get banged around a lot. The A123 cells definitely appear to be good, but how good for RC we will found out.

fishmasterdan, thanks for sharing how these Emoli (sp?) cells fit into battery compartments!

BrianG, it might have been me that said these cells are lower weight than NiMh, but heavier than LiPos. This comparison is with the cells outside of the case. Even with the case, they should still be lighter than NiMh for the same voltage/capacity.

You cannot removed the metal case. They are very similar to NIMH cells. The main difference is 1 lion cell is 3.7v and 1 nimh is 1.2 v.


I just ran a 4s pack for 15 minutes and only drianed off 1 volt. Used in an E maxx 8xl setup. roughly 2000 mah was drained off (still chargeing). Motor was warm batteries did not seem to change temp. cold to the touch.
I can see 35 min run times REAL EASY.
Need 10 pick up a 12v alarm.

could you take a picture of your cells?

Fish master do you have a pic of them out of the case. I like to see what they look like.

I was referring to the plastic case that they come in with the battery, but I'm not sure if BrianG also was.

That runtime you're getting sounds decent. I just hope that the 4s 6600mah 8C pack will work just as well!

So, are they as easily soldered like a NiMh cell, or is there an even greater risk of blowing them up or something?

I think you need to be a little more careful when soldering these than NiMh cells, so that they aren't overloaded with heat. After soldering, it probably wouldn't hurt to stick the cells in front of a fan just to decrease any damage from heat.

Do they have nickel strips like lipo or are they kinda like your Li-Fe whatever cells?

They are exactly like NIMH cells only they are different sizes.

That's kinda what I figured, might be easier to make a pack out of that way.

I own a Rustler about to have RCM-RC chassis. I own a Scorpion 3200 Li-po system and in a bad crash I put a hole in the plastic housing on one of the cells. I examined the cell and the area with the damage smells like denatured alcohol. Is that the electrolyte? If so how do I dispose of the pack? It has almost a full charge. I was thinking about getting the Peak Racing 4800 Li-po. I can purchase an adapter from fmadirect.com to charge the battery, but I don't want to spend the $170 if I don't have to.

I am very interested in these Li-Ion batteries because they look a lot tougher, with M1 can charge in 5 mins (that's 4 times faster than the best time with the scorpion), and are safer. Now what I need to know is will the charger I have work? If not which charger and battery combo would you recommend? (Preferably with M1 tech.) Do the cells need a balancer like Li-Po's?

Also, if i were to purchase the Makita 18v I would have enough cells to do 1 3s2p pack and 1 2s2p right? If wrong please correct me. How would i configure these cells? I know how to do series, but how would I incorporate the other cells for parallel? I am completely lost on that wiring.
Thanks for the help guys. You may have just saved me some cash.
Chris

Could some one get a pic of one to show off? I would like to see one. Please!

Here is what they look like with the outer plastic case removed:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...hmentid=679364

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...hmentid=742874

Thanks metal man. That helped on getting an idea of how they look and big they are. Look like would have to go stick pack form for a gmaxx.

So, to reiterate specs from the first page, they have 3000mah per cell, which would be kinda nice. Still though, how many cells does each Makita pack have?

Here:
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...4&postcount=27

Take a look at this:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508443
Someone made a nice writeup on how to re-make these packs! This person used a Milwaukee V28 battery, but it uses the same cells as the Makita pack linked in the first post.
According to this, each cell is 3000mah (I've read it's more like 2900mah).

My 4s 6600mah 8C battery seems to have developed a bad cell... Maybe it's from when I dropped the pack (slight bulge at the end), but I'm not sure. It doesn't hold its voltage well after a few days. Last week, I found the cell (actually 3 cells in parallel) at 0.08v! I was able to charge it back up at a SLOW rate using the NiMh charge mode, and got it past 3v, at which point I set it to the Lipo charge mode. After that, any slight ballooning there may have been all but disappeared. A few days ago I discharge the cell to about ~3.8v, and today it is at 3.75v, which is very good. I'll use that pack carefully and hope that the bad cell works out all right, but I think I'll be purchasing a couple of the Makita battery packs :). I'll take them apart, and make 4 groups of 2 cells in series. I've attached a picture to show how they'll be set up. You can see 8 cells. The gray curves represent sub-c battery bars, black curved line is a jumper wire, blue lines are wires that will go to a balancer connector, and the red/black lines are obvious. This is probably the easiest way to do it for most RC cars that use dual battery packs.

Found a cheaper source:
http://cgi.ebay.com/2-MAKITA-18V-LXT...QQcmdZViewItem
Only $135 shipped compared to ~$141 shipped from the website linked to on the first post.

So, looks like there's 10 cells each then, and from two of the Makita packs you can make a 5s4p.........amazing what you can find out when you read. :007:

David, looks like 5 cells per pack, and each cell is 3000mah. David, I think that if you actually did read you would actually find something :004:. With two packs, you can make 5s2p, which is 18.5v 6000mah, with a discharge rating of 90amps continous. Total weight would be about 1000g (1kg), or about the weight of 15 NiMh cells. The voltage will be comparable to (but better than) 16 NiMh cells, and runtimes would be much better.

Aw crap, just when I think I have it figured out......maybe I wasn't awake when I read it or something. Oh well, I like the idea of having 10 cells instead of 20 better anyway, and it wouldn't take up as much space.

Anyway, if I went this route, would I need a low voltage cutoff like the lipo's need? And would they need a balancer too?

A LVC would be a good idea, and a balancer would also be good. These devices will allow maximum life/performance.

I just ordered the packs linked to in post #59. Besides that, I also ordered another charger (that I didn't get for my birthday) - a Multiplex LN-5014 from Tower Hobbies (I had a $50 gift certificate there). Soon, I'll be buying a Hyperion LBA6 and some other odds and ends from MaxAmps. The total for all of this stuff is $302 :eek:.

Dang, that's a big hit, I already got the Multiplex at least though. Still toying with the idea of getting those Makita packs though........maybe after some more overtime. ;)

I was informed that the Makita packs are actually 5s2p, and aren't the same as the V28 packs! I should have listened to fishmasterdan! So, don't get the Makita packs, get the Milwaukee V28 packs instead. Only problem is that they are 7s1p, which makes an odd configuration to work with!

Fortunately, the seller of the Makita packs quickly responded saying that my money had been refunded except for the $10 Ebay fees.

Whoa, my whole world has been turned upside down, DON'T get the Makitas? Weird, now I get to go with the brand based outside of my dad's Wisconsin hometown. ;)

But wait, aren't the V28's more expensive? I'm seeing the single packs for about $100 and two packs for $180 on ebay, anything cheaper?

There isn't anything cheaper. This is the the cheapest I have found:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-V28-Li...QQcmdZViewItem

They aren't all that expensive compared to the Makitas. The V28 packs have 2 more cells in series, so the costs come out pretty close.

I think I'm going to wait for the DeWalt 36v system using the A123 systems cells to come out and see how they work, how much they weight, and what the cell dimensions are. Seeing as how it is 36v and 3Ah, I assume it will be made up of 10 x 3Ah cells? Assuming so, I would want to wire it up in a 5s2p configuration for 18v @ 6Ah. Due to where my batteries are going to go, it would be easier to wire up two 5s1p sets in parallel. Is this "safe" or would it be better to wire two cells in parallel, and then place five of these sets in series (so basically I have the equivalent of five sets of 6Ah cells in series)?

What I'm afraid of is if I have two sets of 5s1p in parallel, I won't be able to balance each set unless they are charged individually. And then if they are charged individually, the total voltage on each pack might be slightly different enough for one set to charge the other when they are wired in parallel to each other.

Okay, i've been thinking over these V28 packs and stuff, and have come up with this.......correct me if I'm wrong: each pack is 7s1p with 3000mah cells (7) so with two of those packs you could make two 3s2p packs and use the leftover two cells for a 2s1p pack for 1/10's or something. Combined in series, the two 3s2p packs would basically be a 6s2p with around 22.2v and 6000mah, which would be a nice fit with the 9xl I am going to put in my Savage. Did I think this out right? I have a history of making stuff with numbers more complicated than it needs to be. :005:

I'm also kinda thinking the 2s1p would be fun for running at the local track in my T2 with a stock motor or something, might give it a bit of an unfair advantage though........but that's a whole different issue.

you can only make 1 3s2p and 1 2s1p with one of the V28 packs.

you could get 2 V28 packs and make 2 3s2p and one 2s2p or two 2s1p

boss, there are 7 cells in the V28 packs. A 3s2p pack uses 6 cells, which means one left over. 2 packs will give 6s2p and then 2s1p.

David, that would work perfectly. Just make sure not to use anything more than a stock motor with the 2s1p, since these cells may/may not be able to handle the amp draw.

BrianG, it would be more convieniant to have a pack that is constructed in 2p5s, or two packs with one being 3s2p and the other 2s2p. That way, you don't have two packs "fighting" each other over differences in voltage, although this wouldn't be a problem worth worrying about. But, it would make charging A LOT easier, since electrically you only have 5 cells to balance, as opposed to 2 5s1p packs where there are 10 cells to balance. If you did end up charging the two 5s1p packs in parallel, you'd want to use one balancer per pack. The only downside with this is that if one balancer (on one pack) is balancing a cell, it will drop the voltage of the pack, causing that pack to receive a higher current to make up for the lower voltage it has compared to the other pack that isn't sinking any current (from a cell that needs balancing).
In conclusion, it would be much better to have 5 groups of 2 cells in parallel (IMO).

Hmm, that's kinda what I figured, but it makes things a bit more difficult to set up in my truck. Oh well, I guess it's time to be creative. :)

I was doing some reading and don't you need a li ion charger for these. I think if I read it right if the voltage goes to 4.2 a cell it will damage the cell. I was noticing my charge goes to 4.1 a cell for them.

Well, that makes sense since the nominal voltage for Li-Ion is 3.6v while Lipos are 3.7. I wouldn't think they would be that sensitive to .1v, but it's possible. If I felt especially paranoid, I'm sure the connections on a stock power-tool pack charger could be modified to work with a standard deans connector and balancer connector.

Older Li-Ions charged to 4.1v/cell and have a 3.6v/cell nominal voltage. Most newer Li-Ions go to 4.2v/cell for charge and are 3.7v/cell nominal, including the cells in the Milwaukee V28 pack.

Yay, makes me feel special that I was actually able to crunch all those numbers and not screw up at all! :027:

The main reason I was thinking stock motor is because it would have a real low amp draw, and yeild the most runtime with that pack. I wonder what the rest of the competition would do if they knew I was running Li-Ions......:005:

Have any of you gotten these cells yet?

I haven't. Spent my money on a Tamiya Dark Impact instead. If I do get them, it probably won't be until the summer when I can get more money. But you don't have to wait for anyone to get them first! The helicopter guys are having a lot of success with these cells.

Sorry for the delay.
I think my preference is the more cells you can do alot more with more cells. (Play with weight, add more voltage, add voltage subtract mah ect....).

These cells are from here
http://www.toolsforless.com/product/7364.html
http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...battery002.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...battery001.jpg

http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e2...battery003.jpg