For anyone to argue that they aren't clones to be honest is ridiculous.

Everything aspect of the motor from the size format to the endbell and fins is an identical clone of Castle. They even used Castle wires!

You can say you didn’t get involved in the other forum’s post as you are just a distributer but by NOT getting involved you were happy to let everyone think they were buying Castle motors. To me this is deceptive a business practice.

Let’s face it you’re just trying to make a few quid selling cheap “cloned” motors in the UK. For many these clones will probably work out ok and you’ll make some money. You’re probably thinking “hell if I don’t do it someone will” – you’re probably right but that doesn’t give you any integrity for selling blatant fakes.

PS As to Punk

noun
a. a youth movement of the late 1970s, characterized by anti-Establishment slogans and outrageous clothes and hairstyles
b. an adherent of punk
c. short for punk rock
d. (as modifier) a punk record

2. an inferior, rotten, or worthless person or thing
3. worthless articles collectively
4. a petty criminal or hoodlum
5. a young male homosexual; catamite
6. a prostitute

Adj.
punk - of very poor quality; flimsy;cheesy, chintzy, crummy, bum, sleazy, tinny, cheap
inferior - of low or inferior quality

I agree (it would be moronic for me to disagree, lol) that these look identical to Castle motors.

I don't know the history between Sirius and Castle, if there is any it just seems odd they use Castle wiring, you wouldn't go to the effort of using their wire, on a motor that isn't branded as as Castle in the first place.

I'm working with Kevin at Sirius and Patrick at Castle to resolve this.

Unlike the majority of Chinese companies out there, I care and so does Kevin,

I don't think the aggression is necessary and have always worked strongly with communities.

I can understand your public affirmation. I would do it to. I've been the middle man in a bad deal before. Would you rather be a pawn in heaven or the king of hell. A question every salesman has to ask himself. Integrity goes a long way in life and even when you are gone and remembered. You know what im saying

You do know that using wire and motor logos that say "castle creations" or "castle" on them is trademark infringement. You cannot sell those in the UK, as they infringe on our copyrights, and are therefore not only clones, but are also counterfeit product.

Thank you,

Patrick

To counterfeit means to illegally imitate something. Counterfeit products are often produced with the intent to take advantage of the superior value of the imitated product. The word counterfeit frequently describes both the forgeries of currency and documents, as well as the imitations of works of art, toys, clothing, software[citation needed], pharmaceuticals, watches, electronics and company logos and brands.

-stolen from Wikipedia

The ones I am selling after checking stock do not have the Castle trademark.

Sirius motors has emailed me several times - they actually offered "Castle Motors" as well as their own branded motors and my own OEM motors if desired. I could have easily gone this route and probably quietly made some money, but this is simply not my way. I have probably been offered clones of just about everything out there from many clone companies. I will buy my Castle motors from Castle or a distributor even if they cost me twice as much and I only sell half as many as the cheaper versions out there. Maybe I am a bad businessman, but if so then so be it. Integrity is more important to me than money and I will not support outright theft of property - intellectual or otherwise. Right is right and wrong is wrong. I support Castle and Castle supports me. In the long run, this is the best way.

Word Mike!

See Mike, this is why your business isn't wildly successful. The terms "right" and "integrity" have no place in today's business (or political) world. Lies, thievery, and the almighty dollar reign supreme in this society. There is no place whatsoever for anything as trivial as morals.

The last post in that thread is sad in many ways... The site admin acknowledges they have no relationship to Castle and then points out they make good products basically dismissing the infringement as a whole... Note the RC he drives and products he uses wouldn't exist if this behavior was condoned.

It's sad to see how him and the others on the thread think it's alright for a company to do this and even worse, for them to consciously take part in it as a consumer.

So that justifies it then?!?!?! :whip:

It's wrong no matter how you choose to sugar coat it.

X2

The great thing about integrity is that it is priceless. Real integrity cannot be bought or sold, no price can bring it down. Those that don't have just makes those that do shine much brighter.

I've been discussing this with Sirius and the design on future motors is being changed to not resemble Castle so closely.

I appreciate your comments.

Well well, interesting info from Mike there.

Changing the design of the motors, and the style of font on the boxes too would be wise. Naughty Sirius... :lol:

Same box structure but cosmetics are completely different really, bright purple and Sirius logo does not resemble that of Castles to be honest, putting them side-by-side, you'd not really notice.

The motors however, yeah, I've said already and that is being changed.

IMO, the damage is done. They have already cloned/copied the licensed design without consent - changing the look and color after the fact doesn't make it alright IMO. I have made dozens of one-off designs to customer's drawings or specs throughout the years - I don't sell someone else's design without consent and/or credit to the designer - making minor cosmetic changes and calling it my own would be shady. Sirius can probably make good motors, but they seem shady to me based on this scenario.

To Sirius's reputation, I'd partially agree Mike but protecting Castle's interests is still a priority, I've already said I am no longer distributing these until the changes are made.

Once they are, they can stand as an independent motor company.

Sure I'm "the bad guy" here but it's maybe a good thing I'm at least trying to resolve these issues rather than it being let run mad by somebody who has no face.

You have made a nice name for yourself in the UK and even to us in the USA and beyond. Don't tarnish it up dealing with wankers.

Better than nothing? I guess it depends on how you look at it. If someone stole your car and painted it before selling it as their own, would that be ok?

everybody have her own opinion ...... but for me, pay 250$ for a motor of 380gr is crazy

overcoat when Im racing using motors of 80$ 370gr 4pole and works great ..... very similar than castle, tekin or other expensive motors

thats an unsecure website, have you actually bought anything from there ?

And when there is a failure of one of those inexpensive motors while you are racing whose products (that look very similar than castle, tekin) get a bad rep?

Besides that if it were not for companies like castle and others that spent money on R&D to design quality (and yes more expensive) products that get copied by others, you would not have any race quality components period. Supporting the manufactures of cheap knockoff products is how good companies get put out of business. And when that happens we all lose.

I maked many orders on this web ...... paypal and 100% warranty

250$ vs 80$ ...... this is the difference for me when the quality of each product is very similar .......... at this moment Im using leopard motors and the design is very different than castle ......... each manufacturer have her R&D for design her products

for me 100-150$ is correct for a motor of quality .......... but 250$ is CRAZY ......

$250 isn't crazy. There are way more expensive motors than that and are about the same size. And lets not talk about ESC's.

x2

The problem is, when you only know the cheap crap, I guess it seems okay.

Worlds of difference between the cheap knock offs and the real deal.

Either way, I won't support thieves no matter what. I can buy some cheap stuff off the black market for much less than retail, but it's still stolen which makes me as bad as the thieves who stole it.

"I can't comment -- legal proceedings pending against this company in Hong Kong and China."

When is the case going to court Patrick?

¿cheap crap? ..... the escs of 150a from hobbywing and leopard only cost 90-100usd and have MUCH BETTER QUALITY than the castle escs for cars .......

in my 7 years in this hobby I had 5 mmm, rx8, 2 mm, mmp, phoenix hv160, 3 xerun150a, 1 leopard 150a and more than 25 motors of all manufacturers ....... and at this moment Im racing in serious races using xerun150a escs and leopard motors simply because are the BETTER manufacturers in quality/price (my opinion)

hobbywing, leopard etc = cheap crap

castle, tekin, novak, lrp = expensive crap

You may be missing the point - of course they are cheaper, as they didn't incur the R&D costs of the companies they cloned. If I stole cars and sold them, I could beat the price of any dealer around in the price/quality equation by virtue of lower costs. The point is that this is a short sighted and selfish way of thinking(supporting the thieves).
You may never truly understand until you have something stolen from you that you poured your heart and soul into(and maybe your life's savings). It is easy to justify when you don't see it for what it truly is(stealing) and it isn't your direct personal loss!
Hopefully you never have to experience this, but maybe you have to in order to really see it.
Don't get it twisted, though - competition is good and absolutely necessary to keep things honest and fair, as well as drive forward. Using/stealing property(intellectual, tangible or otherwise) to do it, however, is counter-productive in the long term and just plain wrong - supporting such activity amounts to tacit approval. Everyone has probably done it at one point or another - perhaps unknowingly and perhaps knowingly. The almighty dollar(or whatever currency you might use) rules and this is never going to change - one might justify and knowingly purchase a clone when they can't afford the real thing or might not recognize that the clone is a thievery to begin with and purchase it - whatever the reason, the innovator is punished for innovating in the long run by virtue of lost sales.

ill second that....well said mike :rules:.
plus the damage to our countries economy by buying from other countries when you should be supporting your own country...the more we import the more money goes out...:diablo:
chris

Whatever you have to tell yourself to justify buying from thieves.

Not to mention you seem determined to advertise for people who also undercut what the owner of this site is doing. Furthermore, your claims of great customer service and quality from these thieves runs counter to what the majority says in turn.

leopard, hobbywing, skyrc, turnigy and other chinese companys ARE NOT THIEVES ...... simply are competitive companies with great quality products and cheap prices ....... without a lot of intermediaries for increase the prices .....

of course everybody have her opinion and everybody buy the thinks he like ....... but for me and for a lot of more people is impossible pay 300-400usd for a combo or 150usd for a lipo ....... we have luck because this "cheap" companys exist ....... without him will be impossible for a lot of people play on this hobby

I've been following this topic for a while now and wanted to chime in... First of all: I bought LOTS of Castle stuff in the past years, from the small 1/18 Mamba-25 ESC and motors to the big Phoenix ICE 120HV. I buy Castle products because I like them. This was my biggest order at Castle when they had that sale about 2 years ago:

http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/9281/laat.png

As you can probably see I like CC, spent lots of $ on their products and only had one problem with the customer service a few months ago.

But I'm not here to bash everyone who not likes Castle like a few people are doing in this topic. And this is the reason why I'm posting. I don't like the attitude to the non-Castle people. Seriously, I can't stand it. Different people have different opinions but some of you obviously don't respect them. It's a shame...

Many of you think everyone is copying from Castle Creations although their designs are very different. Look at it from the other side. As far as I know Hacker, Lehner and Plettenberg were all earlier on the market than Castle with their products. Just like Castle was ahead of Leopard, Turnigy, Hobbywing etc. If I would think just as some of you, I could now determine that Castle copied their stuff from Hacker, Lehner and Plettenberg. This would make no sense, just as saying that every chinese company copies from Castle. Castle Creations didn't invented the brushless motor. I bet they watched how other manufactors made their motors before starting to produce their own.


I'm buying Castle Creations for different reasons: good price/quality ratio and they have customer service. My favorite ESC company is Quark however and my favorite Motor company is Plettenberg. I also got some ESC's and motors from Hacker and MGM. I'll keep buying from CC in the future just like I will do from Turnigy and other Chinese brands.


About 90% of the people who are flaming on anti-Castle people buy Turnigy LiPo's. Shut up and buy Flightpower and Hacker LiPo's.

I personally have no issue with hobbywing or many of the other chinese manufacturers.

I would like to see more stuff made in USA/Europe and would pay extra for it but that's a different thread.

I do think its unfair to copy 100% of someone's design an pass it off as oem when it's a copy aka fake.

Castle didn't invent the four pole motor and didn't design theirs - they licensed the design from Steve nue and pay him for every motor they sell.

Looks like they have my favorite 1520 :mdr:
I would buy castle but cant find those even on ebay now. Guess I'll have to give Sirius:whip: a try once my 1520 dies.

http://www.modelsport.co.uk/?Categor...acturerID=1226

Silly question here: if these aren't Castle motors why does this thread still exist in:
"RC-Monster Forums > Support Forums > Castle Creations"?

So we can inform people that even though they look the same, they are not and do not perform the same.

The weaker, cheaper magnets used in these clones alone can account for up to a 15% loss in efficiency. Cheaper copper and poor technique in the windings can further the losses of efficiency.

Castle is king and you get what you pay for.

You are preaching to the choir here. I agree with all you've posted. But the fact is that by its very existence this thread is pointing others toward a line of possibly/probably knockoff motors that otherwise may not have been considered.

I think that is very unfair, especially in a forum so well supported by the company which will likely damaged the greatest not only by loss of sales but by having other entities associate them with an inferior product.

Well there is a question mark at the end of the thread title.