i'm in the same boat as you considering lipo's...too finicky, too high-maintenance and too high-risk. i was just looking at cheaper alternatives, and for now i'm considering adding another SLA to get it up to 60v (vs. 48v on it now). i read through your entire thread at ES and i don't want to go through all that just to get more torque and speed (although it was a great learning experience). first i need to get to the guts of mine to see exactly what i'm dealing with. it has a usb-programmable kelly controller, or so they say - so that's a good start. and if their claims are true of 80Ah, it won't be feasible for me to replace them with LiFePO4 as it'll more than triple the cost i paid for the thing in the first place, lol.

so, i opened her up and saw 5 SLCs total.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../403944851.jpg
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../403944852.jpg

the first shot is a bit blurry, but there 12v 20Ah. doing the math, they must have 4 wired in series and 1 in parallel? i'll look closer at how they're wired later, to double check.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../403944854.jpg

here's the controller, alarm, and DC-DC converter - stuffed under the seat. it's all held down by zip ties, so for now i can't check the other size (or rear) of the controller to see what it is. it does seem long though, which matches the images kelly has on their site.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../403944853.jpg

i just checked the mains with a voltometer. 62.3v, freshly charged. so that means all 5 are wired in serial, and that also means 20Ah, NOT 80. now i can go back to saving for that 60v 30Ah LiFePO4 from ping!

i'm also going to email Green Bee that their data is wrong.

I knew it! Those dam liars with their claims! Yeah email them and tell them to wake up and get the real info on the stuff they sell. :whip: And that looks like a generic xiechang Chinese controller. Might be a 72V though. Look inside to see if it has good FETs and the voltage of the caps is more than 63V. Like 100V maybe?

That's your batteries right here

30Ah of lithium will give you a lot more range than 20Ah of SLAs that's for sure. SLAs drop very much in capacity when close to their C rating and that C rating is not very high. 20Ah might be really 12Ah. And when it's really cold, that 12Ah might be as low as 7Ah.

7.1 kg per battery, that's close to 80 pounds of SLAs you have in there. Ping 60V30Ah is 40 pounds. Half the weight and more than three times the power and will last up to 4 times longer than those SLAs. Those SLAs will only have 80% capacity after 400 cycles and dropping fast after that so you have only one year at max to get those lithiums. But no pressure from me :lol: Hope you don't get to much cold weather where you are 'cause those graphs on how the cold affects the capacity are pathetic. :yes: But no pressure :intello: And man! Do they have a C rating? It looks like they have a ton of voltage sag just with a 3 watt light bulb. But no pressure there, take your time :rofl:

i emailed Green Bee and told them their data is wrong (and asked about the status of my replacement charger). at this point, i'm even questioning whether the controller is Kelly or not. i have too much to do outside today to tackle getting that out and tearing it open, so that'll have to wait.

i agree about the SLAs...i'm not looking forward to the performance dropping when it gets cold here, but i have no choice at this point. getting that ping pack is going to be $1700+ (upgrading to a 7.5A charger), which is more than i paid for the dang scooter itself ($1250). i agree it needs to be done, and the biggest plus is that i can bring the ping pack inside to charge. inside to work, so i can use their juice. :) i should have enough by spring to get the ping pack.

Almost 17 months ago, I calculated how much using a 2004 Toyota Sienna was costing me. When the price of gas went over the $1.30 per liter mark and stayed there, including insurance, upkeep and all expenses related to running this car, the total came to close to $375 per month. And that's for a car that was paid for so there was no monthly payment. So by not using it at all (because I sold it to get the scooter) I save $375 per month. Thinking of that money in my pocket, a $1700 battery doesn't seem that expensive. It all depends on how you look at it and how dedicated you are on using this scooter. If it's just a toy to play with then maybe keeping the SLAs is better. If it becomes your only means of transportation to go to work (like I do) then you want the best of everything so that your ride is as much fun as it can be. So before you buy anything, sit down and ask yourself what was the reason to get this scooter. Once you honestly know the answer then you'll know what you need to do. Have fun with it.

while i plan to use it to work as much as possible (even through the cold), it's not replacing my Z. the only thing that can do that is a new 370 Z. :smile:

i just looked at these on ES... if the specs are true (or even close to true), it seems like a better option. i could configure the same setup as what's in it currently (five 12v packs wired in series) and have 36Ah instead of ping's 30Ah. plus the heavy protective casing (i hit some pretty big bumps along the way to work. still trying to find the least-bumpy line).

2 problems i can see:
-it almost seems too good to be true (and you know what they say about that). with all 5 cases plus the cells, i suspect the weight is way off
-i wouldn't be able to take the cells in at night when it's cold.

anyhow, more options than just ping and cell man. (i got an email back from cell man giving a quote. 16S 2P A123 20Ah Pack 1 50V 40Ah 40A BMS $1490)

Too good to be true indeed. Those are starter batteries for ICE vehicles. They are not meant to be used in an EV. They are not 36Ah, they are 36Ah SLA equivalent. Which means a bit more than 20Ah. No BMS to monitor each cells to prevent over charge or over discharge or equalization during charging. Maybe you can get one of those LiFePO starter batteries to shave a few pounds off the new 370 Z you're going to get.

i just got another response from Paul (aka 'cell man' at ES) that he can build 60v 40Ah split packs. that's what i'm going to get come spring. it may fry my controller, DC-DC, heck maybe even my motor. but i'm gonna have a heck of a smile on my face as it goes up in flames :smile:

i tore the scoot apart to get to the controller, opened it up, and was somewhat pleasantly surprised at what i saw. 80v caps!
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../404019619.jpg

i found no writing anywhere to indicate whether it was a kelly controller or not. but it does look solid enough to go possibly up to 72v.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../404019622.jpg

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../404019621.jpg

i just made my first official mod, lol. when i flip the turn signal switch, it made this loud, screeching beep that only turned off when i turned the turn signal off. well, this little sucker was responsible for that. ripped it off the circuit board, and no more beep when the turn signal is activated.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL127.../404025772.jpg