That would work but it would be less than ideal, it seems Castle wants to get their controlers to a level above MGM, Quark and others. At least that would be a good reason for the MMM taking longer than expected.

I think really that CC's opinion of the E-car market is that its mostly n00bs. This may actually be about right tho. The plane, heli and HP boat market tends to attract more demanding and exp users who can afford the investment in lipos/chargers/good motors etc, and the skill to use them.

Handling 40V batteries is not for the careless or inexperienced, and unfortunately from what I've seen, a good # of Emaxx users fall into this catagory. The HV demand will come up w/ the acceptance of BL into the racing circles. When hi-power elect 'uggy racing becomes less "nitchy" and more pro, you will see more a need for these controllers.

All of the other ESCs have multiple software modes. Not much is needed to convert them from plane to heli to car to boat other than software and HS. There really should be a reason the Hydras or such couldn't be programmed for car use and just swap the HS. My MGM has both car and boat modes I can freely switch between and it just alters the programming profile.

I didn't want to mention the HV and user, but it would be a concern for me. Around 50 volts is when you can short a circuit by just touching it. With sweaty hands the voltage drops even lower. I certainly wouldn't feel safe selling a 5000w 50 volt controller to a kid, they would probably hurt somebody with the battery or vehicle.

That's a very good point...if it was simply a case of reprogramming the Hydra and whacking on a heatsink, Castle would have already done it IMO...or be in the process of doing so. It's probably nowhere near that simple. The MGM controllers are most likely designed around handling what a car dishes out primarily, and then has alternate software for boats. The Hydra controllers are primarily boat controllers, and I'll bet cars put a bigger strain on ESCs than boats do.
As for voltage... around 40V and above can kill a person if they directly contact it. So it's never going to be a setup that a lot of people use...

Look at the Kontronik. They don't have a heat sink. One of mine does and the rest doesn't. Joe said they will have a 60, 120, 180 and 240A versions. This would be fine for a car. My point is they could have gotten a hold of another market by simply adding a car mode to the controller. The only Kontroniks I know that is over 100A is the Power Jazz and those FIA controllers and they don't have a car mode. All the rest does and they work fine. I have a 30A Kontronik that I tried in my touring car a few years back and it ran perfect. If a HV system is set up perfect, it doesn't see spike of 120A+ anyways. If Castle adds a car mode it wouldn't hurt at all. They could benefit from it with sales to us car guys. BTW MGM's 9044 controller can be programmed with a car mode. This information was sent to me from Ing. Grisa Dvorsky. That is a 90A originally for Airplane that can handle 15S lipos. They have the Z series and the EXPERT + available.

No the MGMs and kontronics and all the others are 1st off airplane controllers, then more specialized race boat controllers. The car function is a bit of an afterthought, which explains much of the poor brake programming (for the MGM).

FWIW, I can drive my car well enough in boat mode, but it does a few weird things, like wind the motor down slowly when you let off the throttle. Makes you feel like you are driving a boat :) On the plus side you can order the ESC as waterproof :) The car market is just poorly supported, planes 1st, then boats it seems. The plane thing I can understand. I have yet to met anyone who drives these crazy HP boats. I've met way more that have driven a RC car. I'm not real sure what you do w/ a 100mph boat either. But whatever.

For the record I meant to say "can't". typing gets a bit cutoff sometimes. Its just a matter of tweeking the program profile for the most part if its a robust enough controller it seems. Now to have a good mounting system and all that is harder in a car w/ all the bumping and crashing.

Anyway, the point of my argument was not that I hate CC or anything. I like what the MM has done for the car market, and I enjoyed mine for over a year before I bought the MGM. They are pushing the rest of the market to be more competitive, else we'd be stuck w/ novaks. The new MMM looks very cool as well.

I am generally annoyed w/ them tho how they do their marketing (as are many many others), but what set me off was the begging comment. That's just arrogant and rude, like they are doing us a favor by selling something we want. Perhaps they are just getting a bit testy over the MMM bashing, maybe he was not happy getting ambushed about car ESCs when he's trying to fire up HC hydra's interest on a boat forum. IDK, but that attitude wears on me really fast.

Isn't that pretty much what CC is doing w/ the MMM? :lol:

Good point.

hi

i may have overlooked it. but what exactly is the problem with the boat software to use it in a car?
can the brake not just be programmed with the prog cable and the software?

bye
rhylsadar

The brake on a boat controller is not like the brake on car controllers. On the boat controllers I have the brake is basically automatic. The brakes on my controllers comes on as soon as I let go of the throttle. All I'm saying is Castle could and should add a car mode to the controller. They already have the software from the Mambas.

I think it would take as much time to adapt the Mamba software to the existing Hydra controllers as it would to just start from scratch. I have talked with them about adapting the mamba max startup to the mamba 25 and the time involved made it very cost prohibitive. As they release more ESCs it will all be compatable, the MMM will have the exact same firmware and control board as the MM.

I hope they do something to correct problems in operating multi-pole motors. The original MM isn't very good at it. IMO

In the other forum Joe said that the processor doesnt have the space for a car program. What would Kontronik, Schulze, Actronic and a few other companies that offer all the modes say about this?

They would probably say that there processors have more room for storage of data.

If it is the Silicon Lab's C8051 processoer, they have plenty of space. I spoke with my friend from Flextronics Brasil and he said if a controller with the Atmel's ATMEGA8 can stuff all that info in them he can't understand why a far superior processor can't.

Maybe they have inefficient programs that use a lot more space than they need? Too many sub-routines, maybe?

That is what my friend said as well. I have a ESC for my micros that uses a Silicon Labs processor and it has a lot of the features the Mambas have plus a very interesting setting for those A123 cells with 2V cut off. I posted pictures of this controller and manual in another thread.

Being PC programmable, it would be nice to be able to cut out those unused routines, making the whole system run faster since the processor could run through the program at a higher rate. If you needed them back say if you used different batteries, you could go download that routine from CC's website.

Ok, first off the Hydra does offer the option to remove the brake feature. It is still forward only. Boat controllers have harder startup programmed in than car escs do. Most likely not a problem though.

RC boat guys are crazy, and a 100mph boat is a blast. I haave only driven a boat to about 50mph, and it is alot of fun. More fun that high speed car running cause there is more risk. Plus seeing the boat hull completely out of the water and the prop half in just does it for me.

Now back to the main point:

If you think about it the MMM is a pretty big risk for CC. When they released the MM there were literaly hundreds of rc cars that it could go in. Everyone had some sort of 10th scale electric, and the MM was a bolt in. That is why they sold so many. The price was competitive with the best brushed technology, and it was cheaper and better in every way.

What vehicles are currently available for the MMM to go in? The new Emaxx seems to be the only vehicle that I can think of that could be setup to handle the 6s capability of the MMM. Sure, people will buy it for 1/8 conversions, but there is not a factory ready 1/8 scale anything for the MMM to go in. I am sure that an electric ready 1/8 will be produced, or at least a conversion kit to retrofit an existing nitro vehicle.

I know that most people on this forum will buy a MMM, me included, probably buy a new Emaxx too. But we already know how to handle a semi HV system. Think of how any MM are still being used with stick packs! 90% of the people who bought MM did not even use the pc program feature, and it was included! We are a very small part of the market, plane and boats are bigger, cause they can make more power with electric than any other method. Plus the car market is dominated by nitro, and the people who like nitro("electric sucks, nitro rules, huh huh huh!")

Just saying that we need some dedicated electric 1/8 scale and monster trucks to make ther MMM a success like the MM. My hat is off the CC for actually making this product, that may not be a huge seller, and offering the high quality motor, which was my only problem with the MM system. They are actually making a product for a very specialized market, and hoping that it will cause a big change. No one can say that the MM wasn't responsible for the brushless explosion. Novak made the race system, but CC outfits the basher, and there are many more bashers than racers. Hell, even the crawler crowd have even embraced the MM, there is no more adjustable esc, brushed or brushless, for a crawler.

I would have released the HV 60, 120, 180 and 240 systems with boat and car mode instead of the MMM. Castle folks are not thinking ahead in my opinion. Would make complete sense to do it, since they wouldn't need to waste time with the MMM. The 60A version on 12S could put out 2600W+ and the 120A is at 5200W+.

I found a winning combo in my 8ight and Revo with the CC HV110 and the PiStix adapter.
The HV110 has handled everything I've thrown at it so far from 5S Lipo to 10S A123 and has worked great.
I'll pick up a MMM when it eventually comes out so I can compare the two but for now I have a great solution to my HV needs :yes:

thanks for sharing starscream!

good to hear the pistix works that well. No issues with reprogramming it after every ride?

I tried the HV110 and it failed. In another forum, the Heli guys are saying the HV85 and 110 are failing as well.

To be honest with all of you, Castle could've saved a lot of money by just making a controller for boat and car. That is why a few companies did it. They thought ahead of time and instead of coming out with a ESC for each use, they made a ESC for all use.

Hey Serum,
Yes its worked very well and I do not have to reprogram anything. I spoke to Andy and he said that you may have issues using channel mixing but I have not found this to be an issue.

lutach, it would be nice if you elaborated on what failed for you.
The HV's are made for Heli's so if it failed for Heli guys then I don't know what to tell ya.

I found that using a seperate rx pack was causing the system to restart and the esc to re-arm (strange..).
I setup the system with a BEC instead and its been working without issue ever since. I run this setup in both my 8ight and G2R and have not had a problem.

Here is a link for the heli guy that I was talking about:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=729737
There is a couple of other, but this one was the most recent. I have to say that the HV110 did work for a couple of runs and it is smooth. One day it just decided to let some smoke out.

one more pic

Holy smokes, what were you running this on?
Was that on your BPP geared for 165mph? :lol:
I wouldn't recommend running these hot. My HV's are ~100 deg F after a 20 min run.

The Heli guy issue sounds like an isolated incident as he reproduced the fried esc multiple times. He's running 10S at 85%, maybe he should just run 9S at 100% :intello:

I've been running my HV's for a few months anywhere from 5S lipo to 10S A123's geared for 45mph. So far, no problems at all.

The time I fired my HV110, I had changed the spur back to 65T and a 22T pinion. When I had the 51T spur and 30T pinion, the controller was a sample unit from the person who is doing or trying to do my 200A controller. I did run my truck before getting my DPR with one 36V pack and my Jazz 55/FUN600-17 combo and it ran great for some time.