Got my MMM last week. Installed it and race this last weekend with everything running great. Convienced the MMM is a keeper I decided to pop the lid and make some of the mods mentioned in these forums. I unplugged the fan and ran the wiring directly to my receiver's ch3. I made the lid's opening a little bigger for the wires and that's about it. I plugged everything in and I get nothing from the MMM;ie no arming. I raced it last weekend and it did fine. I switched out receivers and do difference. Thinking maybe the switch went bad, I cut it off and soldered the two wires together and still nothing. I checked the batteries (the RX and the main) both are charged. Steering servo and fan works fine just no arming of the MMM. I've disabled the BEC and using power from 2S RX lipo (was doing that before with the MMM and it ran fine). When connected to Castle Link, the software still sees the MMM and can write to it. Any ideas?
-----------------------------------------
Jammin X1CR, Neu 1512/1.5D, MMM/MM, NO BEC
XTM/XT2, Nemesis XL, Hydra120, NO BEC
2 FireFox 4s 3700, 2 Neu 4s 5000

Maybe we all need a refresher on how ROAR works:

Some company needs to submit a comprehensive, written proposal to ROAR. In the situation of changing the mod brushless rules, that proposal would then be sent to the entire brushless motor committee--consisting of reps from all the companies who manufacture or market BL motors aimed at ROAR-type racing.

Then all of those companies are given an opportunity to comment on the new proposal. At some point, the reps are required to vote and agree on the changes. Those changes are presented to the EXCOM of ROAR which then decides to accept, or reject the suggestions from the BL motor committee. If the new rule is accepted, then it is published by ROAR and included in the next rule-book.

On its own, ROAR does not just make random, new rules whenever it feels like it.

As far as I know, all BL companies that wanted to offer approved motors---even Trinity, Hacker and SpeedPassion---tooled up motors that would conform to the rules. Feigao, OEM motor maker to the world :yes:, managed to convert whatever motors they were selling to approved versions.

I know other guys here like ROAR but who needs them. Guys here at RCM like to mod things cause we think that rules dont apply hahahaha :lol:

but seriously, if ROAR seems to be focusing on sales rather that being competitive on all BL companies then let them be. We have other organization that focusing on improving/modding things competitively (with minimal rules) yet doesnt restrict you from choosing a motor brand. Like Nic Case (sorry forgot the group name :lol: ) we have their speed challenge, its not yet recognize worldwide but its a start. just my opinion. ROAR is not for me, Im just a basher :whip:

I know alot of guys race and need ROAR stuff, I dont, nor does anyone I know. When I think of roar I think slow motors, escs only capable of 4s, and low capacity lipos. Dont need any of it. Id rather it said ROAR REJECTED on the box, sounds like a winner to me !!!

http://i274.photobucket.com/albums/j...rno800-1-1.jpg

I just wanted answers to the same questions.

Great post.

I'll have to agree with the others that the rules are just annoying. I am a basher but I also love to race. I really don't like having to race and conform to a bunch of rules just to compete. Especially when it involves replacing $100 escs with a $300 roar approved esc that still doesn't have the features of my $100 esc. I'd rather just not race. Thankfully my club just doesn't care for club events. I went road racing with a different club last night and it was great fun especially since I was racing in buggy class and once again they just don't care what you have in the car.

That's funny! Reverse marketing. :lol:

100%. Make sure your throttle is on "REV" position too.

You and novak had their chance with me. When I expressed my dissatisfaction (which including no cussing or name calling) with novak, you decided to call me out on the TRX forums. Patrick in a worse situation (actually a guy cussing CC and calling them names) offered to find out why the guy was dissatisfied and felt that way, then took care of him. Had you or anyone else at novak done that with me, the story would be different. It is your job as a business to earn the customer, not my job as a consumer to earn your service.

As for roar, don't need them and don't want them. I find it awesome that this hobby progresses like it does despite roar. :rules:

And jayjay, that post was classic! :lol:

I would seek out "rejected by roar" products! :diablo::na:

Yeah, ROAR.... more like "peep". :rofl:

I flogged my v2 Monster for 70 minutes last night and 30 minutes this morning. so far so good! It was a mixture of dirt grass and asphalt, hard acceleration, full stop, hard acceleration style driving, with a few from a stand still back flips on asphalt and donuts on grass. I'm hoping to hit a track this saturday and get a few 30+ minute sessions in. This will require new tires though :whistle:

Air temp both last night and this morning was a muggy 84 degrees. The Monster never broke 104 F, motor 112 F, and trc and neu lipos 95 F. I cringed when I hit a water puddle about 10 minutes into the morning run, didn't even bring the truck into me, stopped and ran out to it. the truck body kept the monster dry :yes: Here's hoping it stays this solid, and oh so smooth on power delivery.

Woot finally dickyt get a live one.

This is the problem part I reckon. Most, if not all the companies that have built ROAR approved motors, have a design that is a clone more of less of the novak motors, or feigao & LRP sensored design; they are all 99% identical- nothing even comes close to looking like your typical castle or sensorless feigao type motors. Those kinda designs just cant meet the requirements, so everyone has to follow novak or LRPs lead when designing a new motor for ROAR racing.
The other issue I see is that if castle or neu for example wanted to introduce one of their more typical motor designs that is, as I can attest to, much more powerful than the equivalent sized ROAR legal motors, who in their right mind on that committee (who isnt a rep for castle or neu) would vote to allow the more powerful design to be accepted that could easily beat theirs in a race? :neutral:

Awesome DickyT! I'm all happy that you're MMM is running!

Thanks! I brought both my lipos and my truck to work today to have them charged and ready for after work. I have several construction site nearby my office and pending no rain the truck will see 70-90 minutes of dirt and sand pile bashing. My tires are bald from peeling out on asphalt last night, so lots of wheel spin will be there to generate some heat.:lol: I will keep a close eye on temps do to this.

You raise several good points. Why should the existing members of the BL motor committee vote to include a slotless motor design and what would happen if more powerful motors were approved. As I said, I have absolutely no insight into the thinking of ROAR, other members of the motor committee or top sponsored drivers.

Once companies have a vested interest, or significant investment, in existing technology (such as sensored motors) changing the rules does become more difficult. ROAR is nominally an organization run by, and for, racers. Unfortunately, few members volunteer, so the organization is chronically undermanned.

But once slotless motors are approved, they too will be subject to stringent specifications. ROAR is an organization of rules so there will be rules for them, too. If the slotless motors are more desired by customers, manufacturers will simply switch over to building slotless motors. A new motor arms race will ensue.

I wonder whether top racers (touring) even want more powerful motors. the 3.5T motors with lipo are already more powerful than most racers can handle. At that level, it is precise controllability that wins races, not all out power. Many racers want to compete based on their own skill and experience as drivers. They want equipment that enhances their ability and most superb drivers can win using existing equipment manufactured by any company.

So companys dont want to change their motors and keep running the same old junk and use ROARS stagnant outdated rules to keep it that way. Nice ..

Its fun to watch vintage cars race and frankly thats where ROAR approved equipment belongs. Time to make an Extreme RC racing series and put ROAR out of business. Outdated pathetic tyrants remind me of old ladies on neighborhood housing comitties who wont let you put up solar panels to heat your pool.

As soon as you establish your new Extreme R/C organization, we will be happy to join as long as you don't expect us to volunteer to do any work....:wink:

Ahem.. With all due respect to Novak, how many HV ESC systems are on back-order? I assume the "Orange Guys" are in the business of selling products to make a profit. That said, the starting gun has already sounded and Castle (with MM and MMM) is off to a great head-start. ROAR can have their "rules" or as I see it, tricky attempts to corner the market through sanctioned races. The only ROAR I care about is the roar my REVO tires will sound like on occasional speed runs.

i called and got through..thank you Patrick..i left a message for you.

Worked for the X-Games.
I think people are ready for extreme R/C competitions and bigger events that span multiple days like IRCHA does. I dunno if ROAR already does stuff like this?
More than one kind of track. More than one kind of event. Crawlers, speeders, sliders, jumpers, freestyle/skate park...
Sounds like something the people want to me and I would be surprised if it didn't succeed, actually.

I have no doubt that the little TCs have no issues or shortage of power with the current ROAR approved motors, but thats not the issue so much so far as matters to me- I desire a powerful BL motor and esc system for an MT, not a TC. Im sure the green guys would like to be able to compete with the orange guys at all levels, but thats not the issue that concerns me- its the basher sector that baddly needs more attention. The only 'systems' for MT users at present are the hvmaxx, and the MMM combo, and I know which has the kind of power and performance Im after (flaming deaths not withstanding :whistle:). When the Tekin RX8 finally gets here both the green and orange guys will be in for a shock Im sure, but thats a good thing- motivation to compete at the same level for the same potential customers who just want a damned reliable esc and motor that can pull some kind of gearing in an MT with cooking or running out of puff after 30feet. I have the $ to spend if I must, but if a reliable, powerful esc atleast isnt in the offing, I'll end up running a pair of flippin' MMs and building a cursed V-twin type contraption to find the reliabilty and power I want. Gah....

:yes: I can think of 5 of those ideas that would be fun for me. I would run a rig for each.

I think this ROAR thing should be taken to NOVAK forum. This thread has been way OT. Just a suggestion.

Let's give Larry some room so he can get CC to assist him on his concern. just my opinion.

Patrick is dealing with Larry directly, there is nothing more for him to get out of this thread. So what does it matter if other things are talked about? This is a public forum.

Now that's what you call sickness :lol::na:.

So it wont matter if all the thread gets out of topic then. Funny you should say that cause you always complain thing gets out of hand...no prob with me...just saying that we should keep thing in check....

I am not well :lol: needless to say weather was non compliant today, or more yesterday. It was dry today, but several days of rain prior had all the bash spots flooded. CC does not advertise waterproofness on the MMM, neither does nue and my rx is in a box but not sealed. I thought it best to just leave it in the car and drive home. I played for about 10 minutes in the parking lot of my house while talking to a neighbor. not hard enough to get anything warmer than ambient though. all super slow smooth driving, oh my is this esc smooth.

is waterproffness even a word?

Yes. :lol:

PS: I didn't know you could link smileys??!!!!

If this is directed toward me, I am lost as to what you are talking about. I post in threads all the time that go way off original topic, and could care less.

Update
 

Got my MMM last week. Installed it and race this last weekend with everything running great. Convienced the MMM is a keeper I decided to pop the lid and make some of the mods mentioned in these forums. I unplugged the fan and ran the wiring directly to my receiver's ch3. I made the lid's opening a little bigger for the wires and that's about it. I plugged everything in and I get nothing from the MMM;ie no arming. I raced it last weekend and it did fine. I switched out receivers and do difference. Thinking maybe the switch went bad, I cut it off and soldered the two wires together and still nothing. I checked the batteries (the RX and the main) both are charged. Steering servo and fan works fine just no arming of the MMM. I've disabled the BEC and using power from 2S RX lipo (was doing that before with the MMM and it ran fine). When connected to Castle Link, the software still sees the MMM and can write to it. Any ideas?
-----------------------------------------------

UPDATE: I was just about ready to box up the MMM and send to Castle then decided I'd try one more thing. I ran the 3-wire cable from the MMM directly to ch2 of the receiver and it armed and worked fine. Prior to this I was connecting this cable to ch2 via an extension with the middle (red) wire cut. This was because I did not want to use the onboard BEC and was using a 2S 950 Lipo and a voltage regulator to power the receiver. This/that setup worked great as I went through 4-5 battery packs over the last week prior to the MMM dying. The MMM will now only run with the 3-wire cable directly connected to ch2 (with red wire intact) AND with the 2S 950 Lipo/volt regulator connected to the Batt input of the receiver. When I throw the switch on the voltage regulator the MMM arms completely even with the switch on the MMM being OFF. Even though the ESC arms completely it of course will not respond to throttle until I throw the switch on the ESC. Can someone explain what happened between my first set up (explained in 1st post) and the new set up that I must use now to get proper response out of my MMM?

-----------------------------------------
Jammin X1CR, Neu 1512/1.5D, MMM/MM, NO BEC
XTM/XT2, Nemesis XL, Hydra120, NO BEC
2 FireFox 4s 3700, 2 Neu 4s 5000[/QUOTE]

Dunno about paragraph 1, but your "update" sounds like the BEC in the MMM is toast and the only way it will work is to externally back-feed 6v into the MMM. When you do this, does the rx pack/regulator get hot, and/or does the BEC circuit on the MMM get hot (you'll have to take it out of the case)? Depending on the MMM BEC circuit design, putting a voltage into its output can cause lots of heat. To me it sounds like your MMM evolved into a form of Opto-ESC.

I would send it back since that is obviously not how it is supposed to work. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.

Thanks for the thoughts and ideas. It will be late tomorrow before I can check rx pack and regulator. Do you have a tip on identifing the BEC circuit in the MMM? I'll report back when I test it.
Thanks

Well, when you take the MMM out of the case, the BEC circuit is directly on the bottom.

Thanks, I'll put it up on it's stand, pop the top of the MMM and run it for a while and check the temp on both the rx back and the BEC circuit.
Thanks Again

what physically causes them to fail? a connection break on the BEC?

I see no crimping of any wires so I don't think it is a connection break... just my thoughts. I've got a real delima ... I know the MMM is not working as it is suppose to but it is working (I'll find out tomorrow if it is causing overheating of the RX and/or BEC circuit). I leave for an out-of-town race two weeks from tomorrow. Do I send the MMM back to castle and hope to get a replacement before I leave or if it doesn't cause an overheating on the rx pack or BEC circuit do I use it for the race in two weeks and send it in afterwards. hmmmmmmmmmmmmm:oops:

Dunno. That's a question for Patrick. I have a suspicion, but that's it.

Patrick, if you are out there can you weigh in on this? I realize Castle has a lot on their plate getting the new MMM v2s out; however if I overnight my MMM (this is my 1st v2 after receiving 2 v1s) to Castle is it possible they could return it (or another) in a few days? Feel free to PM or email me.
Thanks

If i were you i would try to email Patrick directly as he might not be on here for another week . Or try calling CC directly :wink: