At least you are not talking out of you ass when you complain about someone elses attitude... At least you say it as you feel it, we need more people like this in the world...

I still vote Freudian slip, and yes about the Nikes! I wasn't the only one who noticed- that really didn't help you much Austin.

Ok I'monna try to be finished with this here thread now...

More people like me? I sincerely hope not- it would bring about ragnorok....

Its true though, Im a good judge of character, and although I am indeed rather abrasive and harse at time, I can also be very friendly and kind (helpful to the point of spending all night looking up answers for newbs with questions)- I wouldnt tell a guy to leave the forum just because I didnt like what he was saying...

....I'd flame him first then just subtley insult him every now & then.... :whistle:

Now imagine that you have fixed at least 100 maxamps packs... I got pretty good at getting the bad cells out of the 2p packs (6000 and 8000 packs) and re-soldering them up. The tabs are at least 1/3 of the thickness of a comparable spec enerland pack, plus they have about 1/2 or less of the surface area where they are attached to each other. Fun to work with, and certainly not capable of conducting as much as the enerland tabs (regardless of the cell quality the tabs are attached to).

I have seen alot (like 50 packs or more) where 1 cell that was paired to another cell (2p config, like the 6000 and 8000 packs) would puff. No exterior damage to the cells, no shorting out, or anything else that could explain this save for the fact the cell was weaker than the cell it was paired too, and that weak cell was drawn past its limit. I have pulled out these "bad" cells and remade packs with the other cells and they have worked fine for many more cycles. So I can only come to the conclusion that the cells are not assembled to spec very well (poor QC) or the materials used in said cells vary in quality by a large margin.

That is 1st hand experince by me, nothing more and nothing less. I could hand anyone on the street a bare maxamps cell and a bare enerland cell and ask them to visually inspect them and tell me which is better. I know the result, as I have handled plenty of each cell. I have done alot of lipo work, but the majority of the maxamps packs i have handled needed cells removed, while I have mainly reconfigured enerland packs to suit the owners requirements. I have yet to puff or damage an enerland cell by drawing it too hard or pulling the voltage down.

Or point out his ever mistake until your mere existence drives him batty...

Hmm, an overflowing what!!! HAHAHAHAHA

Wow, that's really lame. Falls under the "your not playing my way so I am taking my ball and leaving" routine. We are the customer Austin, if you don't like it, maybe you should look for another line of business.

Here is a fact:

Three years ago I spent 600 dollars on MA packs. All of these failed in the first few weeks in different vehicles on different setups. By fail I mean all puffed up like a balloon. I called and asked to speak with you directly as I had before and talked with Josh. Josh would not let me speak with you as you were "too busy" to deal with customers. So I told Josh my issues and that I wanted replacements. Josh said he would have to call me back. When Josh called back he said you would not replace them but would offer me a 20% discount on new batteries. Keep in mind this was before your 300 cycle whatever warranty option too. Somehow being out 600 plus 480 for new packs with the 20% discount was not appealing to me. So since I have moved over to Flightpower packs and never looked back.

I am not so poor I can't afford your packs. This is obvious since I buy Flightpower which are not exactly cheap by any means. However I have never had any type of failure out of an FP pack ever. This also includes setups which are much more demanding than what I put your packs through. Of course the comment about people not liking your packs because they can't afford them was a real douche move as well. Way to win friends and influence enemies. It almost seems like Jason must have hijacked your account and come on here.

So tell me, as a customer with this kind of experience, why should I come back to you? Keep in mind that between chargers, accessories, nimh packs, and lipos, I had spent in the neighborhood of 1500 with you.

Then the fact that you lashed out at BrianG who is the most even keeled and level headed member I have seen on pretty much any forum is just uncalled for.

I would also wonder the reason why Mike here at RCM doesn't sell MA packs anymore either.

I will say though that after reading your posts, if there was a chance I would have purchased from MA again, you have sunk that ship.

I will also say that if suicideneil gets under your skin that much that is sad. He is a little brash for sure but damn it's not that bad. Not like him and I have agreed on everything over the past couple of years either.

You asked for an example and briang gave you one. You shot it down because that pack is no longer sold. Things like that turn most of us away. Really if you want to prove your product is the best you are going to need data to show us something. I know personally I am not willing to spend top $$$$ for your product when in the past your products have not even come close to what I expected. (my truerc pack even out performed it and you actually replaced my maxamps pack after having to go to you directly because of it, replacement puffed and I just tossed it. My polyquest packs at the time were almost like a whole extra cell.)

I can give example too but well my packs would be nearly 2 years old because that is when I stopped buying your products.

In order to get my $$$$ again I am going to need more then advertising, I am going to need real data. :rules: Since others have asked and made the same statement that means graphs. :rules::rules::rules::rules: With out that no $$$$$$$$.

++1 ! ! !

Originally Posted by austinelse
Frankly it would not be fair for me to pick and choose from your concerns, questions, and negative opinions.

:no:

I was really happy at the beginning of this thread to see a representative of MA back on RCM. But he repeatedly ignored specific example after example of MA failures, and as someone else pointed out, calling out BrianG is like calling Mother Theresa a whore.

It became increasingly evident that Austin is just trying to sell MA packs.(do you get a comission:lol:)

"If you have a specific example call me personally" -well that's the whole point of forums, to share experience with everyone. I'm sure every company in the world wishes unhappy customers wouldn't share their experiences with anybody but them.

Bottom line: Business in America. It's the informed and motivated selling to the uninformed and nonmotivated. It's no different than Lincpimp buying used stuff low and selling high, just James isn't as greedy as MA, but hey, advertising is expensive. It is what it is and I'm glad I'm part of RCM, or the "Informed and Motivated", if you will............

You know... I'm not going to pretend that I know much about Lipos. I know that Lipos are like boobies. The bigger the C rating the better!

I've never owned, nor plan on owning and MA batteries simply because they are just way too expensive. Are they over-rated? Maybe, but I'm too dumb to know for myself. All I know is that I can't afford them. And even if I could, I don't race, so to me the cost isn't justified either.

As far as MA being voted #1 on all the RC Mags.. well, that's true. But I sub to most RC Mag's, and every single electric vehicle is reviewed using MA batteries, both Lipo and otherwise. Is this because MA is their choice? Probl not. It's probably because MA is one of the few who give them all the best free packs they want, in exchange for them publicizing the fact that the testing was done with MA batteries. How's that for good advertising. It's smart too. So, people are more apt to associate the positive review of the blazing fast "whatever" with the name MaxAmps because those were the batteries used. That's pretty much advertising 101 right there.

You give me all the latest greatest Maxamp batteries that I need, and I'll drive around with Maxamps all over my Explorer,my RC's, and put it in every signature I have. OF COURSE the mag's LOOOOVE Maxamps! How can they not? And how can you blame them really? You feed me, and I'll feed you.

In the end, it's for the user to decide for themselves.

J

Geeze, I thought reading at the begining I was going to get some good information :neutral:

Now..Not so much:gasp:

That's a pretty disappointing graph Brian, as well as a disappointing response from Austin. I guess I would be hard pressed to explain that as well, not that that is an excuse. That's unfortunate Austin has chosen to no longer participate in the discussion as the thread was for the most part was lively yet constructive. I must say such data and behavior does not inspire me to pay such a premium for Maxamps batteries. Such is the line between poor and foolish I guess.

For consideration Brian, here is a graph of my Neu 3S 2500 30C/60C batteries on my CRT.5. Please not that these were purchased in Jan 08, so comparable to the 1yr old models you have from MA.

As you can see, the batteries were holding approx 9.3V (3.1V/cell) at 85A draw (35C) and the highest output occurred towards the end of the pack where there was a 114A (~45C) discharge that yielded 8.9V. Please note that the pack was nearly empty, as the resting voltage was ~11.3V, so it represents a 2.4V (.8V/cell) drop. I'm not sure how a 60C discharge is determined however. This run was a considerable stress on the battery, but did not create any puffing or overheating.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...-46mashers.jpg

To be fair, I don't know that I would advise running a pack so hard. I did run the pack even harder in some grass tests later on, managed to kill my lehner and the pack has seemed a bit flat ever since. Hence the need for accurate ratings. Theoretical burst ratings are fine and all, but do not help much in determining the performance or appropriateness of the battery for such an app.

Overall I highly recommend NeuEnergy lipos, and they can be had for really good prices if you care to look. They have been a bit more powerful than any zippies, but far better cell matched and constructed. You can buy nearly two Neu 4S 25C or 30C 5000 packs for the $250 the original MA pack is listed at.

Let me dig out a 4S zippy-h graph that replaced this system.

Zippy-h 25/35C; 4S 2100 mah on CRT.5
 

Sorry I drew the graph so poorly, but basically we are looking at a max discharge of 90A (42C), and worst V drop to 13.3V (3.3V/cell), tho I don't think they are at the same time, but for now lets assume worst case and they do. These were purchased in May of 08, also last years chemistry and beyond their ratings. I still use these today. Very happy for $40.

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y25...0Zippy_13-.jpg

What also ridiculous is how they have runtime for their packs for the respective vehicle: (2) 2s 6500 packs in a BL e-revo will get 39 minutes runtime, ya, right.

Who else votes that Austin should cough up a pack or two for someone respected on this forum to test?

It will be the only thing that can put this thing to rest, is it not?

Give Lutach a pack, he'll test the bejeesus out of it and post vids.

Hell, I am greedy... Just not on this forum!!!

You are right, but selling stuff relies on the magic "value for money" perception. If you think you got a good deal, who is to say that you have not. Like I said earlier, maxamps lipos seem great after you replace some venom cardboard cased stick packs (these are as overpriced as maxamps products, 60 bucks for a 6 cell 4500 mah cardboard no-matched crap nimh pack???). So double the performance for double the price (maxamps 2s packs are around 120 bucks), sounds fair right? Now if you know you can get a zippy for about 45 bucks shipped that will perform as well as the MA pack, well not sounding so fair, right... We all remember $100 6 cell nimh matched cells... That really sounds out of the box compared to that zippy pack.

All about what you have to reference against... If you read the rc mags and get your info there, zippy does not even exist to you...

I saw this thread and waited for the lively comments, and then was shocked to see a MA rep. Then I got to about page 4 and was suprised this thread was still open. While I'm not saing the points raised weren't valid, I would've thought more restraint would've been enforced. But I can see reasons why they weren't enforced as much as I thought they would be. I know there's more than a few here who at the least feel they've "wasted" their money, but I hoped they would hold those sentiments back a little to keep him around till we dug deeper. Rememeber these guys are used to having mods who rely on their ad $ or do the moderating themselves. Still it wouldve been big of him to admit some shortcomings of previous products, legal ramifications be damned.

What I really hoped to see was more discussion about how their new tests are performed exactly, and what were the old one's. I think the new test is a step in the right direction, but does it use a load on the motor? Does it have varying throttle, how quick does it ramp up if it does, is it comparable to "nailing it" off the line in a 1/8. Bringing up the great experiences some have had, just makes them say "nope not going to change any minds here, I'm gone".

Personally, I might buy MA in the future, I'll spend the extra $ for the good stuff (zippy's never, have enerland now, I want some neu's or g3's). But only if they've proven themselves and are more open to answering questions about their products and showing data. That doesn't mean no failures, I'd buy another MMM V3 even though my 1st one flamed within 2 weeks and it seems there's a new post about another flamer at least every month. And there's alot less options in the HV ESC world than the lipo world.

I sincerely hope Austin comes back, and if he doesn't maybe we should invite him back. Because I believe this discusion needs to continue. Mostly because you'll never see it happen anywhere else. Just remember Austin, most of us are more knowledgable than the majority of other forums, and that we are also members of those other forums too.

Some of the harsher posts have been edited out, but most of the thread has been left intact. Nothing was removed that states experiences and/or opinions based on experiences, which is the important thing.

What I don't get is how we are supposed to magically believe these new cells are "the thing". It's not like prior experience encourages trying again. Usually, people that have a bad experience (or multiple bad experiences) in the past are a little leary of trying again solely based on a company's word. Sorry, but that's the truth. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. If I buy several Fords and have constant problems with each, you can be damn sure I won't buy another one in the future even if the dealer says all the issues are resolved! Same idea here.

I was more than willing to remain civil/professional/diplomatic, but when words were shoved in my mouth, I took offense. And to add insult to injury, was then challenged to provide examples! Like I would just regurgitate what other people said just to get on the bash MA bandwagon! That did it. Don't ask a question and then pout when you hear an answer you don't like! When/if Mike sees this, he can chastise me, but I have to call it like I see it, repercussions be damned.

I agree, the only way to put this to bed would be to have Austin send a test pack to someone to provide graphed results reflecting the claims. Even if they do perform like claimed, that doesn't change the results of past cell testing.

Maybe we can start a new thread for discussion solely about the discussion of the test procedure and their newer packs? No previous mishaps to be mentioned, then he might stick around. Be prepared not to gloss us over though, and data/graphs would help. I myself am concerned about longevity as MA says they are, data for this would help here too.

What's unfortunate here is both sides expect more than they are getting from each other. For different reasons. The ones who feel screwed and/or leary want information, explanations and admissions they aren't getting. And MA seems to want to give only simple answers, claims, and what seems to the other party as unsubstantiated information and to recieve some sort of praise for it. As I said it seems MA is starting moving in the right direction though with them doind some actual pack testing. So can we give them a chance in a new thread, and MA can we get "real" answers to "real" questions?

Edit: this was written before your last post BrianG, and I don't blame you or judge your moderating skills in this matter. I also don't mean to sound like a mod with either post, which after rereading kinda does to me.

If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck...

I will offer one last piece of constructive criticism/advice to Austin.

Check out the Castle Creations forum on here and look at the beatings they have taken from many members. Then take a look at how Patrick Del Castillo and the others at CC have responded. This is the perfect example of how to take criticism and respond appropriately to customers. Patrick in the beginning of the MMM issues even made a bet with one member over a free MMM. Patrick then lost the bet and gave the customer the free MMM. CC has constantly been berated on this forum and still comes back to help with a positive attitude. That sir is how customer service is done. Don't blame the customer, accept repsonsibilty, take it in stride, use it to learn, and move down the road.

I would also direct you to the Team Tekin forums and take cues from the Tekin guys as well. Again another perfect example of how to handle criticism and customer service.

I would have to pass....I would recommend a member that can be found in rcgroups.com (Sorry to mention another forum here), he goes by the username of everydayflyer and he has tested a lot of lipos.

I just figured you had some amp hungry setups. It was a pipe dream anyway.....

YES! Everydayflyer is an AWESOME reviewer! He tested the TP 40C packs along side the G3's, very close in performance. With many many graphs and had all the cycling data based.

I do have some amp hungry set ups, but after my 2 3S 3000mAh packs almost opened up, I will not take any chances, even if they do have better cells now.

He's the type of guy who will tell it like it is. If a cell or pack sucks, he'll say it, but if the pack is as good as it claims to be, the only one winning is the company that made that pack. That's why I like to test things over and over to make sure it performs not only good, but great. MA should do this as they have no control of manufacturing the cells and not all of them will be perfect.

Perchance is there a link to where this testing is taking place?

What about a group-buy for a MA lipo- 5000 members / $250 = $0.05c each; mass email to generate a reponce, then send the money to an account setup for just this purhcase & handled by a trust worthy member...

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...04&postcount=1

That's the review of the TP PP 40C and the HP G3 35C packs, each are 3300mah. Lot's of graphs and discharge tests.

Most of the graphs he has a very high cut-off discharge voltage, which kinda sucks though.

This one is a combo of the TP and Hp packs.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/attac...mentid=2530857

Nah, group purchase... they throw around hundreds of packs to mag's, so I think they can give us one. The mere fact that he never replied about donating a pack, after several times me asking, tells me that they won't deliver. :whistle:

I like that idea, then we can solve this once and for all. I'd be willing to throw in a couple of bucks for the purchase of a MA lipo for testing purposes. Send it to a third party as mentioned above to have it tested then we can find the real truth!

I was thinking about that as well, but I don't think many people would help buy a MA pack, from reading this thread... =/

I'm in for $5.00, If it fails then maybe we can flame freely ?

If this were to happen and the pack passes, I'll buy one to show sportsmanship.

I would do the same, minus the buying one, I don't even have a motor yet... =/

I'd be down for tossing in a few bucks as well....

And if it does fail...
Which guy here has that new shotty?

But if it passes, we go grab a frame and frame it?

I have been watching/editing this thread from the beginning. Deleted some stuff each time I check in, but most of the thread has been reasonably civil. I was glad to see Austin here, actually. In my experience(phone, in person, etc.), Austin is a good guy. I hope he chooses to support his stuff here and address the concerns many folks here have stated - Surely he can't be on these forums fighting this battle day in and day out, though. And the occasional "cheap shots" that some folks can't help themselves with aren't gonna motivate anyone to come here and fight a losing battle. Keep the comments professional and factual or don't expect Austin to comment much.

If you have an experience that you want Austin to comment on or reconcile, then post it in a non-offensive manner and avoid the name-calling and "Jason" comments - Jason isn't in this thread, and Jason isn't the company diplomat - he is the marketing guy - tough to argue his effectiveness at this task. If Austin wants to post graphs, donate packs or otherwise substantiate Maxamps battery claims, then he will do so. This is his choice - not an obligation. Name calling, bashing and inapproriate comments surely won't motivate him to donate anything(info or otherwise), so keep these comments to yourself.

Yes, Patrick and the CC crew have been raked over the coals for the MMM V1 (and V2). And nearly every member here at RCM has a MMM, because they make it right with customer service and product improvements.

I will say also that I have emailed and spoke to Austin on the phone, I have no complaints whatsoever with his customer service and if the new packs are improved from previous ones I would have no problem buying them in the future (if the price is right).

All we need to see is some discharge graphs and perhaps an independent test to back it up.

I would throw up some money towards a pack from MA. No need to get anything more than a 2s pack for testing purposes. Plus we must have someone here with that 20% discount that can get us a "deal" on it... I used to have that thru the local hobby shop, and if I called MA it might still be available. LHS addy has changed though, might need to update the info a bit.

I'll throw in a couple dollars as well. And IMO, I think it should be donated to the guy on RC Group to test. Reviewing his work, he seems thorough and non-bias in his testing, so I think he would give the MA pack a fair chance just like the other.
I have said this for myself as well. I wouldn't mind buy a MA pack if the price wasn't double a comparable product.

I just picked up (2) Hyperion G3 Vx 2s 5500mah packs. I paid $76.50 each for a total of $158 shipped for the 2 packs.
I actually looked at the comparable MA packs. 5250HC packs at $134.99 each.....
That in itself justified my purchase, along with the past history.

Now, I'm not trying to bash. My LHS sells the piss out of MA packs. And the only way he buys them is with the 3yr warranty. I have seen quite a few of these racing at the track and asked about them. The say they are great. I asked if he tried any other packs, they say No....

I too would like to see the discharge graphs to substantiate the 60C claims.

The way I see it, there isn't nobody holding a gun to anyones head to buy Maxamp Batteries, if you don't like them then go by another kind or go buy some of those Hong Kong Zippies. I have been running them for years and will continue to run them. I don't know what the fuss is, they are still the same batteries they were a month ago. I don't think anyone on this forum can tell me what CONSTANT RATING IS or STANDS FOR, because there isn't one RC vehicle in this world that has a CONSTANT AMP RATING????????

I think thats one of the main issues really:

1) Its easy to claim they are the best packs on the market, to para phrase Austin, but without proof thats an empty claim.
2) Other manufacturers display graphes with discharge info, so why not MA?
3) Ignoring issues with older cells that users have experienced is not fair; if you want examples of why people dont trust MA, then you have to be prepared to listen to people's experiences of older packs (vs other companies older packs).
4) Choosing to completely ignore people's questions or critisms and running away back to the NK forum hardly looks terribly proffesional; stay the course and face upto the questions, and try to dispel the negative comments and preconceptions.
5) Give some insight into the reasoning behind ditching continuous ratings, other than 'burst ratings make more sense', as it really doesnt make any sense given the nature of ground based vehicles. At worst, burst ratings and continuous ratings should be listed, with graphs showing that the lipos can perform to those ratings- unlike the 35c pack that only manages 28c in the graph I posted (from the NK forum no less...).