Those are the Makita cells, though, and are different from the Moli cells in the Milwaukee packs.

Aren't the Milwaukee cells 3000mah instead of 1500 like the Makita?

I really hope so since those are the ones I'm waiting for.

BTW: It looks like DeWalt will be using the A123 systems M1 cells too in their upcoming 36v line: http://www.dewalt.com/36v/ (click "battery/charge" link on left and then "technology story" tab).

Milwaukee are 3000mah.

it says they use the A123 cells but it comes with a 1 hour charger

Thats odd....Also, kinda heavy, don't ya think? It says 2.4lbs....

Dewalt says that their 36 volt cells way the same amount as 18 volt NiCD cells

The A123 cells are able to charge in less than 5 minutes actually, but they (DeWalt) must not be taking advantage of that. Maybe it reducing the cell life to charge at a high rate all the time.

I'm hoping they will be 3Ah cells. 36v will mean I'll be able to make two 18v (5s) packs from one module. 2.4lbs for a 36v pack means 1.2lbs for one 18v pack.

About the weight: a sub-C cell weighs 65g. An A123 M1 cell weighs 99g. It takes three sub-C cells (195g) to equal the voltage/capacity of one M1 cell - as long as the M1 cells are ~3Ah each, otherwise two in parallel would be needed and would weigh more...

I'd bet the reason that Dewalt isn't doing 5min. charges is because of the current it would require to do that. 60min./5min. x 3Ah x 36V = 1300W! Imagine the contact area on the battery that the charger would need to handle pushing 36amps into the battery! You would need a connector like a Deans for that!

MetalMan, do you know what the Ah rating of those M1 cells are? I'm hoping for 3Ah (or more). They might be less since DeWalt says there's greater run time, but that might be simply because it's using 36v so the current doesn't need to be so high. I'd like to use a 5s1p arrangement for size/weight/simplicity, but have found nothing on the A123systems or DeWalt sites that says exactly what they are...

Charging at 1300 watts probably wouldnt be to safe either

At this point I know as much about them as you (possibly less). To be honest, I'm not even going to get excited about them until Dewalt starts shipping the power tools.

It would require a HUGE balancer too!

I just bought a V28 pack on ebay. I'm going to make two 2s1p packs and run them in series. I can't fit 4 cells flat on my MT2, so I have to split them up. Later on, I may try to buy a single cell off of someone to make two 2s2p packs, but for now I will have 3 leftover cells. Details will be forthcoming next week...

You may not get much power out of that pack. The helicopter guys say that these cells are good for about 45amps max, and after that their voltage drops off. That means that under acceleration your truck may be sluggish. This is the main reason for going 4s2p (or two 2s2p), since the pack would then be good for 90amps.

Yeah, I'll have to experiment and see how it runs with 4 cells. If it is sluggish, then I'll have to find another cell somewhere. I hate to buy a whole other V28 just to get one more cell and then go through the hassle of selling the other six. I hope that I can find a heli guy with an extra cell laying around. Or hopefully that vendor on rcgroups will be able to start selling individual cells soon.

I have seen these cells sold individually. I can't recall the site. If I find it or some one else does could post it up. I am not sure if they are the same or not either.

This is the guy that's selling individual cells:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=514378

cart, it may be worth it to wait a week and see if anything new develops with the single cells.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...t=514378&pp=15

This is the only place I know of that is trying to get some for sales.

Yep, that's the guy I'll buy an eighth cell from if he get's his act together. I went ahead and bought the V28 pack because I'd like to take a look at the internals of the pack.

Well, the DeWalt 36v systems using A123 Systems M1 cells are out now. No information about the individual cells though (like Ah rating). A little pricey, but not bad if they work well:

One 36v battery pack: $180
One 36v charger: $100

http://www.toolup.com/CategorySearch...exbx27851.html

I thought about getting a general purpose Li-Ion charger, but the DeWalt one isn't too bad and probably has balancer circuitry built-in. Since I plan on running 18v, I'd have to wait until both packs need charging and then charge them both in series on the stock charger.

So, does someone here have deep pockets and wouldn't mind picking up a pack to test? :)

OK, I did a bit more research about the M1 cells and found this bit of information from here (scroll to about 2/3 the way down under the heading "A123 Systems - DeWalt 36v"):

Reading a little further, it seems these are the "EV" sized cells, whatever that means.

2200mah isnt bad for what they are although the voltage is less than lipos so you would have to add another cell or two to make up for the voltage loss. I wonder what the safest max discharge voltage would be?

The voltage for these cells are comparable to LiPos (a little less), so I'd say a cutoff of 2.5-2.6v?

What kind of deminsions and design are they? Are they shaped like a LiPo cell or like a Li Ion?

I would assume they are cylindical shaped, but the size? I dunno. There was a post further back that listed dimensions and weight, but the weight I found (above) was different than the weight posted earlier. Who knows? Like I said: someone want to buy a pack and get the info first hand?

They are round cells.

The specs don't look too bad. 2p would be an obvious requirement, unless you're doing some short speed runs where weight savings are wanted. These cells seem have close to the same nominal voltage as the Saphion (LiFePO4) batteries I have (3.2v). Those have a CV phase charge voltage of 3.65v, but can accept 4.20v without problems.

Hopefully the prices will go down like they have with the V28 packs, so then some of us can try them :).

Emoli has put an end to M2EnergySolutions plan to sell individual cells. In order to make a 2p pack, I guess I'm gonna have to find somebody with an extra cell they don't need.

Over there, I'm TMetalMan. Check out my posts and the responses.

Cart;
I have some of the 1500 mah ones left over (4) of them. Could make a 7.4v 3000 mah pack.
If anyone needs some let me know.

If I had to buy a big pack again I would but li po's they are just easier to deal with. Flat, lighter and smaller.

Yeah, I had already figured that out. You really need to standardize your screen names: TMetalMan, MetalMan, tcoleson... lol! :005:

No thanks. I need to get another 3000mah cell. I would have gotten lipos, but I couldn't find any that were the shape I need. I want something that is the same size as a 6 cell NiMH brick pack, and 4 Emoli cells are almost perfect. Commonsense RC has a lipo that was close, but I decided to go out on a limb and try the li-ions.

Look at my avatar, and you can see how I'm restricted in my battery selection.

I am still looking for "the perfect cells" to use for my race Revo. I was waiting for DeWalts M1 cell packs to come out, but I don't think they will work as they will most likely be only 2.2Ah. No telling for sure until someone gets a pack and pulls the cells out. I'm still hoping they will be ~3Ah each because I want at least 25 minutes of runtime, and they have a higher discharge and charge rating.

Because I'm impatient, I'm now looking at the emoli cells from the V28 packs (3Ah per cell). However, those are unofficially rated for only 15C (45A) or 20C bursts (60A) from the temperature vs amperage graphs someone over at rcgroups compiled. I would get these, but would a 10XL motor pull more current than this with a 9-10lb truck? The motor is rated for around 66A. I know the motor won't pull that current all the time, but I don't want to hurt the cells. Also should I go with 5s or 6s?

Brian, I run a 10XL on my E-Revo (setup to race) and I think or racing, 4S would be PERFECT. 15C should be plenty for this motor as well although i would personally go for a 2P setup. With the M1 cells a 2P setup will get you over 30 minutes of runtime I believe. It just depends on driving style. I've still only got 4 runs on my new IB4200s and they kept getting 5 minutes more every time. My last run was about 23 minutes of really hard running.

Only 4s? I got the 10xl so I could go with a higher voltage. Plus, I figured I would be a little easier on the throttle with ~20v as opposed to ~15v. Since the M1 cells are only 2.2Ah, it makes sense to go with a 2p setup, but then the cells weight as much (and take as much room if not more) as equivalent voltage/capacity NiMH cells. This is why I was looking at the emoli cells, which are 3Ah, and then use 5s or 6s for higher voltage.

On my relatively heavy bashing Revo (~13lbs), I get about 20-25 minutes of runtime on 14 GP3300 cells with an 8xl motor. I figured that motor draws substantially more current, so a similar battery setup (capacity/voltage wise) would last quite a bit longer on a 10xl. However, I've never raced, but I have heard racing is harder on batteries.

Yes, chances are it will be harder on your batteries but with a fast brushless setup chances are you will be pretty easy on it since you will have all that power. I get 40ish mph with my 10xl and high gearing (20/51) on 14 cells and its a BEAST. Its PLENTY for a track and I figured that its gonna be lighter and have slightly more voltage probably. Maybe 5S if you want more than enough power plus it will run more efficiently. Either way, you'll be surprised as to how fast a 10XL on 14 cells or 4S lipo is. One main advantage to 4S though is less weight.

I think that to use Emoli cells, a 2P configuration would be best. 6s Emoli can only do 864watts continuously, and the burst isn't much higher, and that might not be enough. A 5s2p setup would weigh as much as 15NiMh cells, but have the voltage of 16 and the power of closer to 18 or more. Then the runtime would also be incredible...
4s2p would also suffice, and would be less weight.
If you like the M1 cells, why not use 2p? That would provide good runtime, and loads of power that you wouldn't know what to do with!

http://www.toolsforless.com/images/p...d/194230-4.jpg

What are the dimensions of these, they look huge! Do you keep them in the plastic casing?

How quickly does 6kmah (5s2p) charge at with the Multiplex LN-5014?

I'm tempted, dare I say it. Also, is what I pictured above still what people are on about, lol... stopped reading at page 5.

Those packs don't use the same cells as the Emoli packs. fishmasterdan uses the cells from the Makita packs, so ask him about them. The mentioned cells now are the Emoli cells, available in the Milwaukee V28 packs. They come in a 7s1p format, and for most purposes the casing and everything besides the individual cells is not used.

One thing about the Makita cells is, unlike the Emoli cells, the Makita cells are 1500mah where as the Emoli cells are 3000mah.

Hmmm. Well, I wanted less weight than NiMH, about half actually. Maybe I will wait until the A123 Systems M1 cells come out in the DeWalt unit. But those are only 2.2Ah according to that link I posted earlier. Again, I could go with 4s2p or 5s2p, but then weight goes up again. Looks like Li-Ion is not in my future after all. And I definitely don't want Lipos. Unless maybe something like this (one of each)?