That will be great. Maybe you can have a go at it with the Funny Car? :whistle:

David went 1.36 today IIRC, he'll post the details here I'm sure. If I can get the Funny Car into the 1.3s, that will be super! Also, check your inbox.

yep , went 1.36 with the 1406 7700 testing yesterday, The motor is very smooth and very consistent, I am at a little disadvantage since there is no gear changes I can make since I have a dd car but i changed tire size and it helped, haven't played with timing yet but so far I am very happy with it and I am sure there is more in that beast. Not sure if I can make it out next week or not but if times get better I will let yall know.

here is a pic of the car that the motor is in now.
http://i756.photobucket.com/albums/x...TkxNS5qcGc.jpg

OK y'all, this week is Autorama and I'm getting stuff ready for the event. I can't wait to run the 1406-7700, and I get to do it for 4 days!!!

Funny car with the 1406-7700 is on the right, body off, battery on.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...40244Small.jpg

Team SunnyHouTX AKA Team Punisher

Nice! Team punisher good stuff! Have fun at the races. I haven't even seen my rigs for the last week. Work kinda blew up right now and turned into 20 hour days. Still waiting to run my 4600 on 3s in the 4x4 slash to really see what it can do. Worked well on high speed test runs but now it's geared down for the track. We shall se....

Yes indeed, we shall see!

BTW, I have three Punisher logo shirts now, started off with the one I'm wearing below at the 2010 Texas Worlds.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...MAGE_111-1.jpg

So, if these produce 30% more torque, and they are classified with the same KV as the CM36's, does that mean they also output, and consume, 30% more power?

I'm only interested in these because I want something ROAR legal.

Right now, I have a Lehner Basic XXL, which cranks out way more torque than a CM36, or by these estimates, the 1400 series. The only trouble is, they are not ROAR legal and probably never will be. They are 36mm in radius, 58mm in can length, and can drive my SCRT10 with a 21 tooth pinion, achieving only 145f after 45 minutes, on Norcal Hobbies' Short Course Track.

I seriously wish that ROAR classified motors on power consumption, alone. It would allow people with heavier kits to run heavier motors and keep the races interesting...

...it would also keep you motor makers honest...not that you aren't ;-) it just means you'd lead your press releases with dyno tests instead of funny numbers.

Coreyfro, it's just some suppositions but here is my opinion :
When you put a 4 poles rotor instead a 2 poles, you divide the Kv by 2, but the Kt (torque coefficient) rise by 2, that mean for the same amp draw, you have twice the torque you would have with the 2 poles and as the RPM drops too there is less magnetic losses in the stator. So the 4 poles motor would be more efficient and would handle more power if it has to, or will consume less power for the same performance
Obviously the stator of a 4 poles motor is designed differently than a 2 pole motor (more slots) but here is the idea...

There are other things that come into play as well, such as rotor diameter (which increases torque by the square of the diameter) stator length (linear torque increase with stator length) air gap (decreased torque by the cube of the air gap) etc...

What we've tried to do is make the most efficient possible motor -- while making it as efficient as possible over the entire usable range.

This means increasing the torque per turn as much as possible, while minimizing no-load current. The 1406 motors are all 1-turn motors, with small tweaks in other areas to change the Kv (mostly by changing the stator length...)

So the motor that makes the most power is the 1409 SCT motor, with it's very long stator and rotor. As the Kv of these motors goes up, the maximum continuous power goes down... but high Kv motors are usually used in fast, lightweight cars, so the power requirements are lower.

Burst power from these motors is incredible... the 50% efficiency point (the point where more input power won't generate any more output power, just more heat -- those of you who run ROAR motors know what I'm talking about) is so far down the graph that we can't hit it without destroying the motors. So they can be used in high burst applications (like drag racing) just as well as oval, dirt track, etc...

These motors use .2mm powder coated laminations (expensive -- but much lower no load current -- almost all other motors on the market use less expensive .35mm laminations) oversized NMB bearings, high temperature magnets (N38UH -- good to 180C temperatures) 180C rated windings, 6061-T6 case components, etc...

These motors were designed to be as bulletproof as possible, and as efficient as possible.

I like the sound of that :yes:

Impressive! Thank you for giving us such a well designed product at a great price point. :great:

Great stuff.

I know the 1409 and 1410 have longer cans than the 1406, but, within the 1406 series, do the kigher KV 1406 motors have less mass since the motors are optimised by rotor/stator length? So someone with a pan car, shaving micrograms, would get the 1406-7700 and gear it low, saving some weight over the 1402-4600 and gearing it high?

But, if weight isn't a primary factor, if someone wants maximum power draw, they get the SCT motor (websight says 1410) and gear it tall. When they run out of teeth, but not out of track, they get a faster model, so long as temps stay healthy.

So with the NUE motor series, each motor is really a different motor since they have rotors/stators of differing lengths?

That's about right. The higher Kv motors are a few grams lighter (but not much!) than the lower Kv motors.

Thanx!

So the SCT will be a special 1409 series with the can shortened to fit under the ROAR 53mm length?

This is the headache we 4x4 SCT racers are facing, motors that actually work for our trucks. I swear it's the only bit of buyer's remorse I have regarding my SCRT10.

Yeah, it's as much stator and rotor as can be crammed into the 53.00mm maximum dimension. Works very well.

You guys might want to edit your Xmas list it looks like these motors are shipping!

I'm going to wait for ROAR to pull their heads out of their rears and makes some 4x4 SCT rules before I buy a motor.

Not that CC's SCT motor isn't great, but I am holding on to hope that they allow longer cans...because if the 1409 is a good motor for 4x4 SCT, a 1412 will be even better.

Hear that Patrick? Light a fire under those guys, and we, the people who are conservative with our wallets, will open them up.

Right now I have a Monster, a Lehner Basic XXL, and a track that doesn't care about motors. I'm happy.

Sure, I can see where your coming from. The 4x4 class is a mess around here. I was referring to the 1406 hitting the streets for the 2x4's, TC's and speed freaks.(dragsters:wink:)

Patrick, please read:
 

I'd like to add my experiences with the 1406-7700 motor in my 1/10 funny car over the last few weeks.

The first attempt to run this motor was at Autorama 2010 at George R. Brown Convention Center at a RC drag racing exhibition race November 25 - 28, 2010. That didn't go over too well in that the track was way too sticky for any fast numbers. I noticed that this motor has a lot more torque than I anticipated, which meant I had to use wide tires as well as more torque control than I wanted to. The stickyness of the track meant that with the lower available torque start off was sluggish, but the top end was good. The best I could manage was a 1.7s ET.

At this point I decided that further testing at this location was futile and should be continued at the next race in San Antonio, which would be the final race of the 2010 Texas Twister Race Series, held last Saturday (12/11/10). So the car was set up like it was at Autorama: MMM ESC, TP 4200 3S Lipo, weight at 49oz, 4.30:1 gearing, 2.8" tires. This was good for 1.563s @ 84.1mph in the 2nd round of qualifying, and got me the TQ.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...40346Small.jpg

It got cold quick after that and ET's didn't go down any further due to low lipo performance in the cold. However, I went on to win the class with 1.6s ET runs in the next few rounds into the finals, where I ran a 1.7s (it got colder still!).

So, here are my thoughts about this motor. Toque monster!!! With the lipo discharge levels that we run, this motor creates gobs and gobs of tire shredding torque with extreme ease. I have to get more familiar with the Torque Limit settings a little more in order to really unleash some fast ET's. One thing that I really like about the motor was how smooth it was when everything was dialed in. That 1.563s pass was so smooth all the way down the track. Now the trick is to keep that smoothness going into faster ET's, which should be no problem as I run it more and more and get a feel for its power characteristics. My attempts will continue next season as we have already closed out 2010 and will post updates as they come.

My thanks and deep gratitude go to Patrick and the awesome folks at Castle for getting me this jewel of a motor to race with.

Had a chance the other night to put some more track time on the 1406 4600 kv at west coast. The track right now is very tight and technical. Every time I run it I like it more. So smooth and gobs of bottom end. Was eatin the 550's up all over the infield with the 2s setup. Motor never seems to get over around 150 even with 10-15 degrees of timing. Didn't really notice much in the way of speed with the timing on the tight track but it seemed to make the motor a little smoother on acceleration. This thing tosses my 6 lb 4x4 slash around very well. Not to mention it's a bit lighter than my 550 was so I can run softer springs in the rear for some more on power traction. Ran a few laps with 3s too geared for the same 40 mph and noticed a little more snap but not really a tight track setup IMO. Overall I'm really impressed with the little green guy and so are the people who end up pitting by me. Everyone runs 550's and so did I on 3s and everyone knows that. But when they see the 540 and a two cell smashin around the track the questions fly. Will continue to run it and when I get a chance race too to se exactly how it stands up to the stiff competition at west coast. Many thanks to Patrick and all the castle folks for doin what they do.

Got a new "testbed" for 2011 :yipi: Since my other TFD was doing so well, I decided not to use it for testing (don't fix what's not broken) and decided to buy this one for that purpose. Since this is a "sidewinder" chassis, I'll have another parameter (gearing) that I can play with, useful for testing the Castle Creations 1406-7700Kv motor. It's geared 4:1 and has the 1406-7700 already installed along with a Mamba Monster ESC. I just couldn't wait too long without putting it together :lol: Without a battery she weighs in at 26.8 oz. I'm also very tempted to use this car as a stepping stone into Extreme in 2011.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...6_102513-1.jpg

Sunny How do you combat the time delay made by the Esc trying to detect rotor position since your running sensorless?


I raced a friends pro mod carwith a 9000kv on 2s and the thing would either leave like a rocketship or stutter back and forth for about a tenth of a second then take off.

I think the most important thing is to have a battery capable of discharging enough current to overcome the initial launch. To that end, the 40C TP packs have proven exceptional (that's all I use for the most part, save for a couple of 50C 2S packs). Also, I use "high start power" as a default (less if the track is slick), which again require good batteries.

Also, tire prep is important. You need to use some Koford, or similar, traction compound which serves two functions at the same time. It lets the car stick to the track on launch and its viscosity lets the tires slip a little, which helps helps the motor "power through" the launch. If you don't put enough of it, the car can stick to the VHT on the track and not move/stutter.

Even through all this, the car sometimes does the "Mamba Shuffle" simply because. For me that happens less than 5% of the time I think.

Hey CC folk,

I haven't seen the SCT motor only for sale. I have a MMM and don't need another ESC. Any idea when or where I can find just the motor?

We have not released the 1410/1Y 3800kv and the 1415/1Y 2400kv motor's by themselves. We are working on getting some in soon, I'll be sure to put up a post when they're available.

Thomas Porfert
Tech Support
Castle Creations

Sweet! I bet those will be popular selling motors, particularly the 3800kv one as a VXL replacement.

Update for anyone who still cares, been running the 4600 in my slash LCG (RASH) conversion with great results. 2s geared 27/84 with no timing and low start power. works really well and has power all over the place. topend is quite impressive, just ask the 1/8 scale buggies i was pacin down the straight. still cant get the motor over 150, ran it for ten minutes straight last time at the track and it was 148. this motor is waaayyyy efficient, my 13.5 wont run for ten minutes or at these temps geared this way. many thanks to all the cc folks and especially Patrick for all the help and great products. looking forward to whats on the horizon from cc....

Oh we care, trust me. Good write up too slim, another testament to CC quality and innovation. I get to test out my 1406-7700 this weekend and I've got a 45C 4S coming to make things a little more interesting :intello:

Thanks Sunny, did I read that wrong or are you gonna throw a four cell at that 7700?!?! Great Scott that's like 1.1gigawatts!!! Sounds like fun! These new four pole mills are outstanding. Only thing holding them back from absolute perfection is a sensor. And the way cc does stuff when it does happen I'm sure it won't be at the cost of efficiency like the masses. Although I don't really notice the missing sensor wire except that it's not getting ripped out of the endbell during a bad crash.

See, I don't really care for a sensor wire in drag racing, but I can definitely use the "always forward mode" that sensors offer :lol:

But yes, I'm gonna stick the 4S in this weekend if the pack makes it in time for me to do a couple cycles on it before racing.

i'm running the 1410 motor in a very heavy crt .5 geared for 50-55mph on 3s and the esc will overheat after about 10 minutes, but the motor hasn't gotten over 125F yet. it is an extremely efficient little motor. i can't see any reasons why this little motor can't push an 1/8 buggy or light MT around. it is incredibly torquey and i will be buying another motor for sure once they release it by itself. it should be able to push a rustler to 70mph without breaking a sweat, unlike the vxl motor. this awesome new motor makes twice the power and only 1/3 of the heat that my old vxl makes. the esc is the definitely the weak link in this combo. it is better than the normal sidewinder, but not quite as good as a MM.
i'll be throwing the esc in my old rustler vxl and throwing my MMP in the crt .5.

btw, sorry if my post doesn't make very much sense. i just had a wisdom tooth removed yesterday and i'm a little medicated at the moment:whistle:

Well... made one pass with the dragster on 4S. Launched nice and easy and then trail of smoke and I knew it was time to get out of it. Hmmm I know I didn't put any nitro in there :lol: Looks like time was up for this ESC, after a long time of service in my drag cars. It still arms up and works fine free spinning, but smokes as soon as you put the car on the ground. Testing to continue February 12.

Bummer dude! You let out the magic smoke! You sure it wasn't just the tires smokin behind the 4s power on a 4-pole? Ha ha ha can't wait to hear your results when you get some passes down with that setup. Btw you ever get a chance to run the cm-36-9000?

Yeah I've run the 9000Kv before in my funny car and managed a 1.46s best ET with it, around 90mph. I plan on going back to that as soon as I'm done with the 1406-7700.

Whoa that's quick man. Glad to hear it's workin for ya. I love go fast cars, never tried dragsters but used to run alot of touring cars. Just got burnt out on the constant tweakin on the tourers. Went to west coast today to run the 4600 in my rash some more and the track was closed for matinance. I just figured it took so long cause the guy working on it was wearing a novak shirt and moving about as slow as their stuff does;)

Subscribed.
Just ordered 1410 for a Hyper 10TT, should be potent !

I have a sidewinder sc combo with the 1410 motor waiting to go in my old 2wd pede. Should be alot of fun!

Raced with the 1406-4600 Friday night in my lcg slash (rash) and am wantin more of these motors for my other rigs. No timing on my setups so needless to say the four pole motor has huge bottom end. But at the same the topend is wicked fast. Truck is about 5.25lbs rtr and it gets tossed around like a rag doll with this mill pushing it. Still am shocked at how smoooooth the power band is on this thing for a sensorless motor. Damn close to the same feel as the sensored setup that was in it before but with way more power. Temps are not worth mentioning really lipos and esc warm and the motor is an ice cold 135 after a six minute race with me beatin on it like it owes me money. Got a practice run that lasted about 20 minutes and had the motor up to 150(my record for this motor in two wheel and four wheel platforms) had to stop cause they were watering the track or I would have went till I hit lvc. Using turnigy 20c 5000 and like the weight and power they give me. Think I used around 3500-4000 on that run. Can't remeber what the chareger said when it was done, but it's feasable to run all three of my heats on one pack due to the efficiency of the motor and esc. Will try it next time I race 2 wheel isn't my love so I just have alot of fun, now 4 wheel is a different story though..... Again this was all made possible by Patrick himself and I think people are starting to take cc more seriously at the tracks. I see more and more castle stuff every time I go. Especially the new sc motors, people took notice when I started running this motor and followed suit(understandably) thanks Patrick and go castle!

Slimthelineman, you may want to go up to a 40/50c pack, you'll have less voltage drop and a bit more punch, which sounds unnecessary, but if you make more power you can back off the throttle even more. That will bring the temps down a touch more and keep you off the LVC even longer, which means you can size the pack down a bit and save some weight...

Sounds like a bitchen setup so far!

Looking forward to trying some of these 14xx motors in a Ofna 10SC that should hit my door around Wednesday.

I would but the 20c packs are the only ones I could fit in my lcg conversion. They don't even get past warm. I forgot to use my watt meter bit I think they are providing plenty of juice. Not to mention they only weigh about 270g for a 5000. Have ran this motor on 40-50c packs on the past in other heavier rigs and for what it's worth I don't really see any differance in 1/10 scale applications other than a little extra heat. Now 1/8 scale is a different story, with the power those things lay down I can say for sure I have noticed a differance in performance and heat with higher c rated packs.

I find I'm becoming a big fan of Castle and Turnigy power trains:yes:

Word. With me it's all about bang for buck. The turnigy packs work as good as any of the other big name American brands I've used which is most(yes even ma.....) at a fraction of the cost. Which really helps when you race more than one class. Right now I run three so that's six packs minimum. No puffing never got a dead pack and have a few packs I've been running for over a year and a half in the rc8be that work as good now as the day I got em. As for castle, no coment needed started running their stuff when they released the mmm and have never looked back. I love the way their stuff works, the reasonable prices and the awesome support. When I'm at the track I try to pay it forward as much as possible for fellow cc users. Always have my laptop out with cc link up programing for whoever wants it and just giving general help and advice on gearing etc. My favorite is when they get the brown outs and have tried everything until I tweak on their setup for a couple mins and bam! Problem solved. Just try to make people feel like part of the cc family since they have takin such good care of me.