The wire leads don't need to be changed, it's good wire.

Another thing, when soldering, I would make it so the cap is pressed right up against the case of the Quark, and the cap is perpendicular to the wire leads.

Does this mean your going to use 8 in series to get 20volts and use them as your batteries? (power the motor by themselves) :eek:
Sound interesting if you are. They don't have the enery density of good batteres though do they? Still pretty light if there 29grams each, but I have no idea how or if you can compare mah to farad.

Just using the capacitors alone, you would have one good high speed run; the charge (voltage) is linear to the amount of charge left, intrinsically, that's what a cap is.

I would use them as a hybrid pack, battery delivering the energy (as a low constant current), and the caps delivering all the peak power. Doing this, the system voltage will stay very high, near nominal voltage, with less than .4 volts of vdroop. It would be neat though, you would have off the charger voltage available for power after you charge, for a few moments.

You gain a little energy from the cap itself, and also from less strain on the battery, it will deliver it's true (or very close) mah rating, as well as little wasted energy due to vdroop. So, if you were to use an eagletree to measure the running performance of the battery without ultra-caps, it will look like THIS

Then if you add the ultra-caps, it would look something more like THIS, more of a constant discharge at low rates, and higher voltage.

I just have to ask. If running all of these caps is so beneficial, why hasn't this been visited before?

It seems to me, that if there are so many benefits to running all of these caps, you could just solder small copper posts or bars on the rather large solder pads of the quark to accommodate four or so capacitors and then solder the battery leads to these bars.

As for the arcing, I run a junction box of sorts on my truggy and facilitates quick battery changes. The esc and battery connectors plug into the junction box to complete the circuit. If I run my fans from the junction box, the fans should drain the caps when I disconnect the batt and prevent the arcing when I re-connect the batt. Is that right?

Well, these small high power ultra capacitors are relatively new. Don't ask me why no one has tried it, as you can see, not very many ppl are interested in them. We won't know how well they perform in real-world unless someone tries it, I am.

As for your connector arcing, it WILL happen when there is no voltage in the caps, if they are charged, it won't happen. The Quark itself self discharges the caps, no need to do it. Your fans will only run for like a second.

Why nobody? I used them they are great but they are not cheap. Old link

hmm doesn't say that you are using ultra-caps. Which brand/series did you use, and what did you use them in?

same caps
I was using BPAK0058 E015 58F 15V on E-Maxx.

Oh, you were using one of their modules? IC How many caps total did it use? It shows 58F, but you would need alot of caps to get that, considering the series requirements for voltage. What setup did you have? Little more info?

Modules selector

My module pdf

6 350F Ultra Caps with balanced circutry and wiring for series connection.

How big are they (size and weight)? If they are as big and/or heavy as a battery pack, I would just rather get a larger pack. I realize they would help the batteries by providing a more constant load rather than being subjected to bursts, but just not sure if the gain is worth the cost in R/C (bang for the buck). However, once you get to larger 5th scale up to 1:1 vehicles, I can definitely see the benefits!

The one which I use (rated ~3kW) was a little bit overkill for e-maxx.
Dimensions 216x69x38mm
Weight 566g

1/4 scale would be a blast with them

Hmm, yeah, a little heavy/big for 8th-10th scale.

I'd be curious to see an eagletree graph with and without the caps to see how much they help the voltage stay steady, and to see if you can get the full Ah rating out of the battery since it isn't working as hard (in bursts).

Maybe a 5-10F setup would be a little better for smaller 8-10th scale vehicles, yet still provide close to the same benefits.

Tests and simulations shows that ESR is more important then capacity, but you cannot get low enough ESR without capacity. Basically your caps ESR must be equal or less then battery's, while over discharge batteries impedance goes up so that's where you start seeing benefits, not even mentioning temp.

These caps have much lower ESR than any battery available. I will be using 8 in series of the 120F cap, so 15F system with 20 volts capable. 0.0025 Ohm

It sure will be interesting. :027:

Do you mean up front cost "bang for buck", or total lifetime cost?

Both... sort of. Lipos have a lifetime no matter what. I understand they will last longer if the caps can help them run more gently, but they still will "go bad" eventually. How many more cycles will you get running with and then without the caps? I know you don't know since no one has done any kind of test like this. I can see a longer lifetime, but not sure how much longer.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a technology nay-sayer; it's just that I don't use something for an application just because it exists. However, if it works, and has economical and performance benefits, I'm all over it.

If I order these 330uf 35v low esr capacitors from ebay, is anyone else gonna want any?

If you buy a bunch, I'll buy up to 10 off you...

Brian, the deal on ebay is for 200 of them. LOL.

Do you know what the price per capacitor would be for us? I may be interested in getting some also.

:005: 200, what a deal it is eh!

I don't know if you could ship in an envelope or not? I would not mind getting some, just for the sake of it.

If you have an eBay account, maybe you get a sticky post made for other ppl to buy these for their Quarks? as a preventative measure or course, and possibly better/smoother running. Like I said before, they told over the phone that they solder a couple extra caps on all their large 1/10 / 1/8 RC.

Well, that depends on how much harder 4C average discharge (15 mins runtime) without caps (lower lows, much higher peaks) is compared to 4C average discharge with ultra-caps (low frequency current ripple/discharge, and constant discharge).

I have high hopes for this, BUT, I'm not going to promise anything yet. Until I can take a look at some eagletree recordings, and go from there... I know what kind of cycle life they have at constant rates, but what we put batts through, you just don't know. you know.

I will let everyone know how it will perform.

The "Jea Capacitors" ebay store has a bunch of different values.

For the MM and Quark, I would get 35v caps, but the capacitance value is a different story. You probably want 3 or 4 smaller (220uF to 330uF) caps to shed heat easier. However, having a bunch of caps clustered around the ESC may be a little messy. But, if you get one, maybe two, larger ones (~1,000uF), it will be easier to mount, but harder to shed the heat.

So, now I'm not sure what value to get. Arggg.

270uF 35v
330uF 35v
390uF 35v
1000uF 35v
1500uF 35v

Hey, I found that the 330uF is the best BANG for ESR/capacitance, and low ESR will mean less heat.

IMO, I would mount 2, maybe 3 extra caps, or if you want to get a little crazy, 6 of them in a bank.

BTW, I found that note in the manual about the LVC. It must have still been at the LVC I set way back when I first got it, and that's maybe why it was cutting out, because I think I set it to something like 2.5V cell, and I may very well have gone under that under a burst of current?

I went ahead and bought the lot of 200 35v 330uF caps. The larger caps were just too large in my opinion. I think it's going to be easier to mount the shorter ones. I'm going to be laying my Quark down flat and not on it's side, so it should be pretty easy to mount two to four caps. I hope this helps with something.

If anyone needs some, I'd be willing. The downside is that the best way to ship these would be in a priority mail box and that's almost $5. The caps themselves cost me a whopping .17 each.

Hmmm, let us know when you get them in. I would be interested in getting 30 of them for ~$5, and $5 shipping.

Also, in the previous post, I meant PayPal account... not eBay account.

ZPB

Aangel: Like I said before; if you are interested in selling some, let me know (PM). I'll buy up to 10-15 from you. $5 shipping + ~$3 isn't bad...

OK guys, I just got off of the phone with the guys at Quark. Get this, they told me that running the Quark Monster Pro in my Muggy conversion is going to be running the esc on the ragged edge. All of their testing is on around 9lb truggies, which is the max that they recommend. The guy that I spoke to did in fact say that the Monster Pro is a 1/10 scale esc, and any running in 1/8 scale conversions has been for testing purposes. It looks like I was doing all of that ragging on the MM controllers for nothing. What I needed was a lighter truck. That leaves me SOL with my Muggy.

He also told me that he definitely recommends the addition of more caps. His words were, "the more the merrier." They are just recommending the Novak high voltage caps because they are readily available. It appears that the caps will fry if over worked and it's pretty easy to do in an 1/8 scale conversion.

I was also told that the Quarks do better with four pole motors as opposed to two pole motors. The reason being that the four polers like the timing at which the Quark runs better than the two polers do. He also recommended the use of the 2.5D for 1/8 scale truck applications; and they are running maxamps 8Ah packs for their testing.

It looks like getting those caps was a good idea. I'm going to add as many as I can.

BTW, they are working on a new esc. Presumably the Plasma. He said that it is also a 1/10 scale esc, but they are taking measures to keep it cool. It's funny, because he also recommended the use of an RC Monster heatsink.

OK, just wanted to share the info.

OK, I don't want to clog up the thread with this cap crap. LOL.

I am going to keep a handful for myself. I'm going to add them to everything. I'll probably keep 50 or so, so that's 150 I'll let go. I'm going to do Priority mail because I have the boxes and they are free and will make it easy to pack them up, so if you want some, PM me with how many you want.

First come, first served.

I have to add, the guy at Quark was really forthcoming with the information. What was great is that he'd been there and done that, so he knew where I was coming from. I think that they are going to be a great company to deal with. I just hope that I don't blow up my Quark on the first day that I get it.

I think I would like 20 caps (if they're that cheap, why not).

Do you happen to know/remember the name of the guy you talked to at Quark?

"the more the merrier" hmmm, sounds like Frank! :005:

Yes, that's exactly what they told me AAngel. But for us folk, we don't buy 'regular' old caps do we! :017: :027:

Maybe, just to let other ppl buy from you, I will take 20 caps then, instead of 30.

ZPB

I wouldn't mind 10 or 15 of them either. That price sounds like a bargain to me. I have a few Quarks running and anything I can do to keep them running sounds like a good idea to me.

So you just solder these onto the battery wire right where it comes out from side of the quark? Anything else special that would need to be done?

OK, with Brian, jhautz, MetalMan, and zeropointbug, I have one more lot to get rid of. Please understand, I'm not in the cap selling business. LOL. I broke them up into lots of 30. That way, the shipping is about equal to the cost of the caps.

My payment for a lot of 30 is in :D. It should be interesting to see what a few of these can do to help a Mamba Max...

MM, I was just PMing jhautz about that. I just need to figure out where to put them. I wonder if adding four of these to the MM will allow us to run without a fan. I hate fans.

MM: Now, just because you add a couple caps doesn't mean you can run 10s and 200A! ;)

I'm probably going to add two of them right where the battery wires are soldered to the PCB.

That sure would be nice... But right now the brand new MM in my Revo is thermalling even with a fan. Granted, it is overgeared and I was running in grass with Badlands, with the 7XL and 5s2p A123.

I'm not that ambitious ;).

It's funny (not) but there seems to be a lot of variation from MM to MM with regard to what they can handle. Some will do 5S, some won't. I have one particular MM that I can run all day long on 4S with the 7XL in a truck and not have any problems with thermalling. It may not be a QC issue, but all MMs are definitely not created equal.

where do you solder these caps? I was wondering if they could be put in near the plug end of the power wires, or do they need to be as close to the board as possible, or doesnt it matter?

I'm assuming positive lead to positive wire and negative to negative. That brings another question... How do you know which lead is positive? If I remember from way back in high school electronics class on capacitors the positive lead is a bit longer than the negative, or are they marked somehow?