OK, I'm not going crazy. My eight year old got home and broke out his Monster GT. It's setup is that it's locked into first gear, running 14/49 gearing with a MM and 9XL on 4S lipo. His tires are 40 series Moabs. I have my 8ight T setup with the Neu 1512 1.5Y and MM geared 16/46 on 4S lipo. Since I can't count on a standing start, we started at a roll and drag raced down our street. He spanked me. Not bad, but it happened none the less. He got a kick out of it, but I didn't.

Something is definitely wrong. With the luck I've had with the Quark and all of the cogging I'm getting with the MM, I'm really starting to feel the need for a Lehner.

It must be frustrating to get the "good stuff" and not have it perform as well as the entry-level stuff. Something has to account for these issues. To rule out the ESC being the cause of the lack of performance, have you tried that same Quark on the 9XL? If it works well, then the issue has to be with the motor. Or, you could try the MM with the Neu if you can get by the initial cogging - just to test.

Something really seems wrong to me with all of this. I have 2 of the 1512/2.5D motors and they absolutely rip. On 5s they are silly fast and the torque and acceleration is way more than the tires can put to the ground. If I punched it from a rolling start it would instantly flip or break all 4 tires loose. I also have a 9xl and a 8xl. The power (acceleration and speed) is almost not distinguishable between the Neu 1512/2.5D and the 8xl. Its just that the Neu can run an entire 8000mah pack without overheating and the 8XL needs a break after 5 minutes. One of the 1512/2.5dD motors got my buggy up to 60+ MPH (gps verified) on 5s a couple weeks ago and it still had enough torque to completely smoke all 4 tires on pavement from any kind of a low speed throttle stab. I know the 1512/2.5d and the 1512/1.5Y are not the same motor, but they should be very similar.

There definitely sounds like there is something wrong. Mislabeled motor??? Bad Motor??? Bad wiring??? Try re-soldering the motor plugs on the motor and make sure you have a good connection. As Serum pointed out, with all of the trouble you are having lately it sounds to me like an Eagltree would be a very worth while investment for you. If the Neu is not delivering the power to the ground, then it should not be pulling the amps either. If it is pulling the amps and not delivering the power than you have another problem somewhere. You would easily be able to detect it with an eagletree.

Did you try swapping the 9xl back into the setup without changing anything else. Exact same setup except for the motor. If it kicks like it did before, then its the motor.

One more thought.... Are you sure you know what your doing??? All this "bad luck" just seems a little to convenient of an explanation. :005: (Kidding obviously)

Well, I can't test on my Quark because the replacement that they sent me blew up.

jhautz, I'm really beginning to doubt whether I know what I am doing. I know the esc is good. I swapped motors and all is well. I went to tear everything down on my setup again, and stripped the set screw on my pinion. I spent an hour getting that out and just got fed up. I packed everything up in boxes. I'm going to see our local boat builder tomorrow and see if he has anything that interests me.

I helped a friend of mine out with his boat. His system is going to be based on a Castle HV controller. I don't remember what it's called, but the thing had 10 gauge wires on it. He's also going to be running a Feigao 8XL. It appears that there won't be as much of a heat problem because of the water cooling. So far it seems like a lot less of a headache.

Just an update on my 1512 1.5Y.

I sent the motor out on June 5 and it was received by Neu on June 7, 2007.

I wasn't getting much information about the status of my motor, so I contacted the vendor yesterday where I got my motor and I got an email directly from Steve Neu this morning.

This is what he said,

The only thing that I can figure is that someone fibbed about the date that they received the motor. In any case, it appears that I chose the wrong motor for the job. It figures.

So, to make it short, according to my situation, the Neu 1512 1.5Y is NOT the right tool for the job if you are looking to push a truggy around. Obviously the 1.5Y is not as similar to the 2.5D as I thought it would be. There is only a 100kv difference, but there must be other differences as well. Of course, there's always the chance that I'm just a dum a$$.

I guess I'll be looking for another motor.

Not a very sportive chap that Steve Neu..

You thought it was there since the the 7Th of June, based on that you 'accused' them of not taking care of you. I hate this reversed psychology. Trying to make you feel guilty over a misunderstanding.

In case you haven't noticed, I had my share today.

So AAngel,

You getting another neu? Or something else?

Serum,

As a point of fact, I wasn't mistaken. I confirmed via USPS that Neutronics had received my motor on June 7. Anyway, perhaps Steve N realized that he was mistaken (or misinformed) because he sent me another email that completely baffled me.

He said...

Either we are completely off base with the equipment that we been running, or he hasn't spent much time running his motors in land vehicles.

It was nice of him to offer to give me another wind of motor, but I'm certainly not going to get into a 2500 to 2600kv motor for my truggy.

I guess I'll just ask for a 1512 2.5D, since others have had success with those. Perhaps there is more of a difference between the 1.5Y and 2.5D than just 100kv.

OK, I'm going to see what's up with Serum.

Serum, what's up with you? I didn't see anything.

bdebde, that is the question!!! It's a real shame (for me) that I've been having such problems with equipment that others are having such great success with.

All joking aside, I'm really starting to think that I just don't know what I'm doing; and all of this stuff is just too expensive to keep messing it up.

When my Compro gets back, I'll likely put that up for sale, since I couldn't get it to work right and MGM says that there's nothing wrong with it. I'll likely also sell the Quark. It runs well, but the only reason that I got it was to run the Neu motors.

I'd like to get into a Lehner. I don't know if I'll have better luck with it, but the experience with Neu has me in a state of indecision. On the one hand, I know that they build good stuff; but when I have trouble with it, I get (what I thought was) a condescending tone in response telling me that I got the wrong motor. You can almost say that Neu is telling me that I should not have expected Feigao XL level performance out of the Neu of a similar kv rating.

I would call that getting it from the horse's mouth.

Ah, I'm just being a bitter baby about this. I'm just dying to run my "hot" setup on the track and after over a month (between the troubles with the esc and the motor) I still haven't been able to do that.

I was out taking my bike for a spin.. took me some time..

Okay, that sounds more reasonable.. It's kind of odd to blame someone else for being misinformed, it's just a misunderstanding.

Good news that he is willing to get you another wind though. I didn't expect that to happen after reading the first post. also; would the difference in torque would be that drastic with Wye or Delta when they have the same KV? can you ask Steve what's up with that?

I shot him another email asking that very question. I explained that I got the 1.5Y assuming that the performance would be similar to that of the 2.5D with the defference in kv being negligible. I haven't gotten a response back yet.

I've been thinking about this since I got the first email. I know that I'm not completely crazy and I do know what a 1900kv motor running on 4S should behave like. I also know that glassdoctor was running a 1512 1.5Y with good results. The performance that I got was anemic.

After the little "misunderstanding" concering the date on which Neu received my motor, I'm wondering if there isn't just a bit of misinformation flying around on this whole issue, possibly from someone trying to cover their butt.

I really don't want to start making accusations or even inferences, but the first email that I got was rather bold when Neu had taken the position that they had not received the motor until June 14.

Actually, I don't care about what's going on. I just want my motor back, in whatever form. If I have to run it geared 18/44, then so be it.

I know that Steve Neu has popped up on other sites to help people out with problems that they're having and I do believe that he has his customers' best interest in mind. It just seems to be more of my luck in that I just can't seem to be able to enjoy the better things in RC. LOL

We'll see what happens. From what I understand, they are ready to ship me something. I'll just see what I get.

step away from the tuna!

fe conversions are just that... an educated guess

adjust and re-group...

Ron

It does seem that you are destined to have "issues" with anything related to R/C. Maybe you should get a job as an ESC tester. If you can't break it, no one can!

Seriously, I think you'll be happy once you get the proper motor - hopefully you'll get it soon.

Brian, that's the thing. The 1512 should have been the right motor. A few here have run these in trucks and I've been surfing the net and others have also run the 1512 in even heavier trucks with great success. What gets me is that they (Neu) are telling me that the motor is as it should be.

What am I missing?

Well, were you running dual packs? Is it even remotely possible that you had them in parallel instead of series? Not trying to insult your intelligence, just trying to find a reasonable explanation. Assuming the motor is ok, the only factors that would make a motor run too slow would be a faulty/misprogrammed ESC or low battery voltage, and maybe the EPA settings on the transmitter.

Brian, believe me, when things go wrong, the first thing that I do is assume that I did something wrong and check everything. I went from the radio all the way through the esc programming; and I only run single packs. I think that dual packs are more of a headache than they're worth in a buggy/truggy. The kicker was that at the end of messing with the system, I just threw my 9XL back into the truck without changing anything and it was hauling butt.

I'm just sitting back and waiting. SNeu sounded like he was trying to get a motor off to me today, but I haven't heard back from him, so I'm hoping for tomorrow.

What's getting my goat right now is that I've been doing more research and I found several posts made by Steve Neu. In the emails that I got from him today, he's telling me that I need to up the kv to 2500 or 2600kv to get performance from the motor on 4S. That's over 36,000 rpms.

I can recall at least two posts wherein he's telling other people that the 2200kv 1515 ran great in maxxes, with what he called "silly" amounts of power; and in another post he's telling people that they should try not to exceed 30,000 rpms because losses start to increase and the motors will start to run hotter. These comments were made while discussing 1/8 scale conversions.

So, which is it? Am I supposed to go to the higher kv motor or am I supposed to stick with the lower kv motor. Of course, I know what I SHOULD have had with the 1512 1.5Y, but this contradictory information coming from the person that's supposed to know just kills me.

OK, I'm going to stop posting this stuff. People are going to start thinking that I'm crazy knocking a company like Neu motors.

lol, you are understandably frustrated.

I would guess he is saying 30k rpm for the people who he knows are going to push it no matter what he says. A disclaimer or a "safety net" I guess. But, if he is talking to someone who actually sounds like they know what they are talking about, he can specify a rating closer to real-world values. We all pretty much know the 35000 rpm "golden rule" so anything around that value is ok.

Or, he could be taking the application into consideration. If someone is buying a motor specifically for speed runs, the motor will be running in the upper rpms much more often. But for track use, the motor will not be running at max speed nearly as long, so those high speed inefficiencies mean less and you can run higher rpms as a result.

It sounds like someone needs to sit back, relax, and have a cold beverage. :)

No more cold beverages for me. Not for a while. I got bombed this past Sunday on Strawberry flavored beer, of all things.

While trying to recover, I'm just going to sit back and see what happens.

Ewww! I'm not a big fan of beer to begin with and to mix it with strawberry sounds downright gross! :020: :027:

It's actually pretty good. It went very well with the crawfish that we boiled up.

I LOVE beer...and wine too.

? what's this about ?

AAngel, perhaps a different rpm range is optimum when running a 1512 vs a 1515, as well as a different rpm range for a different application, thats why neu had said different things.

bdebde, I don't think so. I have exchanged PMs with a couple of people that are running the 1512, and the desired rpm ranges don't change.

I'm not going to try to make heads or tails of anything. I believe that I have a 1512 2.5d coming my way in the next couple of days. My truggy, since I put it on a diet, doesn't weigh much more than a buggy. The 1512 should do just fine on the track. All I should be sacrificing is a bit of torque and I know that there is a bunch of that to spare with the 1515, so the 1512 should be just fine.

We shall see.

Guess i didn't word that right, I was just say that it could be SNeu's way of thinking, as you quoted him saying something different about a 1515, than what he told you about 1512 (2600 kv for 1512 in truggy, 2200kv for 1515 in maxxes).

To tell the truth, I'm just tired of messing with all of this. I hope that I didn't misquote anyone or mislead anyone. I'm just starting to doubt what I thought I knew. LOL

I'm really hoping that the motor will be here tomorrow, just so that I can see how it runs.

I'm just starting to doubt what I thought I knew. LOL


Thats what BRIAN & RENE are for LOL :005: .

OK guys. S. Neu had offered to let me get a different wind motor, so I emailed him and let him know that I'd take the 1512/2.5d.

I got a package in today. I was a bit excited, when I opened it up. Guess what was in there. The same motor that I sent them. So much for the offer. I guess something in the lines of communitcation got crossed someplace.

Oh well. After over a month of waiting around for Quark and Neu, I still may not have a track worthy truck. I'll throw the 1.5Y in and gear up and see what happens.

This may be the time to throw in the towel.

For those of you that are looking at the 1512 1.5Y for a truggy, I can't say anything except that you will be disappointed if my experience with this motor is going to be typical.

I was reading in this thread here that the D an Y motors are in fact a little different. That the D wind tends to work well in either rotation direction and the Y wind motors work better in one rotation directn vs the other.

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7277

Could it possibly be that the Y wind you have is spinning the "wrong" way?

Maybee I read this wrong or just didnt understand what I was reading....

EDIT:
I think that might be the wrong thread... But I do remember reading that around here recently. Not sure exactly where now. Anyone know anything about this or.... I could just be talking out of my ass.:002:

Once you sit down and think about it, it kinda makes sense that a Y runs more efficiently. Consider the delta "diagram" below:
Points 1, 2 , 3 are where the motor wires go. Points A, B, C are the coils. If you apply power to points 3 and 1, the majority of the current will go through coil A, but some will also go through coils B and C. The current through B and C will be less since those coils are effectively in series. Just think of coil A in parallel with coils B and C in series. So, even though coil A is supposed to be the only one energized, coils B and C will be also and will provide some resistance.

This is how I see it anyway, so please correct me if I am wrong.

jhautz, I read that too and it concerned me. I mean, how can an electric motor run better in one direction than the other? From what I gathered though, this difference is a result of the way that timing affects the Wye wound motors. If you have the timing set at an optimal setting for one direction, it'll be screwed in the other. Of course I could be way off base.

There are two perspectives from which I look at this. The first is that the Quark employs automatic timing which is supposed to set the timing at the optimal level by itself, in which case the negative effects of the timing in one direction or the other are moot.

The other perspective is that I'm screwed because the way that my Quark works with the Neu is that the Quark is showing the reverse light when I'm moving forward and the forward light when I'm in reverse. Perhaps my motor is spinning the wrong way.

The funny thing is that if this was an issue, why didn't Neu bring this up when I complained about the performance of the motor? I told them that I was running it in a truggy with a Quark.

Anyway, I ran the truggy for a while with the 1512 1.5Y. I had it geared 17/46 and the performance is acceptable for the track. The power is NOTHING near a Feigao 9XL geared 16/46. I mean this in terms of raw, brute power. With the Feigao, I had to be careful not to wheelie. With the Neu, I have to try to wheelie to get the front end off of the ground.

After 5 minutes of hard running, I got a temp of 115 on the esc and 160 on the motor. I would have thought that 17/46 would have been some pretty tall gearing, but the readings say that I need to gear up more. Maybe I'll try 16/44 later on and see what happens.

Oh, btw, the issue brought up by jhautz was the reason that I requested the 2.5d. Unfortunately, I didn't get it, so I can't tell.

S. Neu did email me back and say that the offer still stands, but the last thing I want to do right now is do any more waiting.

It really doesn't matter at this point. I still have that disgusted feeling in the pitt of my stomach and I think I hear ebay beckoning me for my 8ight T.

I do have to say that the Neu/Quark combo runs well. One of these days I might get a 1515/1Y for one of my trucks, just for the performance fix.

Oh, I just realized that I made the mistake of thinking that the Neu kv ratings were under load. I just read that they are not, so I believe that the 1.5Y is actually something like a 1700kv motor, which puts in right on par with the 9XL. I just can't figure out why the 9XL appears to have so much more power with less gearing than the Neu motor does.

Can the diffs be flipped in the 8ight T, so they would run in reverse?
You could try flipping them and reversing the motor to try and see if it does run better in one direction.
Don't sell it yet. If you are getting sick of it just put it away for a while, then in a few months or whatever you might see it sitting wherever you left it and decide to give it a drive. If your anything like me you would have forgotten the things that frustrated you about it and remembered the things you liked about it. And maybe by then there will be system out that will fix the headaches you had with it. That's what I'd do anyway if you like the actual truggy.

perhaps the 9XL is better suited for the standard timing of the quark, i would try to setup the quark with more torque in the advanced programming menu. (this is the startup power) try it on the highest setting, play with other settings as well, that's my advice.

Brian; your theory would explain why it would have more torque.

OK, I'm going to start fiddling with the torque setting and such. I do have it on the softest setting and didn't even really think about it. I guess the MMs have me spoiled.

I'm geared 17/46 right now and I'm starting to see some cogging. What has me a bit worried is that I can get the motor temps up to about 160 pretty easily.

OK, I messed with the torque settings. I set it all the way up to "dynamic," whatever that's supposed to mean.

The short of it is that the Neu 1512 1.5Y doesn't have nearly the raw power of the 9XL. I have the Neu geared 17/46 and it still doesn't equal what the 9XL was doing at 14/46.

Still in all, the 1512 only gets up to around 165*F. I was hoping for lower temps, but they don't seem to get any higher either. If I run it for 5 minutes, it temps 165. If I run it for 15 minutes, it still temps 165. If it keeps running like that, I'd be fine with it.

I haven't tried the 18T pinion yet and I can still go down to the 44T spur. I'm just afraid to try it because I'm already getting a bit of cogging.

Your supposed to gear a higher kv motor down.... not up! Go back to your original gearing that you ran with the 9xl and tell me how it feels. Gearing the 9XL up as high as you geared the Neu 1512 would cause it to overheat in minutes. The fact that you are running it at only 165 is a testament to the Neu. Also the 9xl will feel less torquey at that gearing.

If you not getting more speed out of it at the same gearing you for sure have something wrong with the motor. At the same gear ratio the higher KV motor on the same power source should run at a higher speed.

Gearing them the same should give you a better view of the relative power of the 2 motors.

EDIT:
if you get 35mph on you 9xl geared at 14/46 and you are looking for the same speed/power only coolier temps you would need to gear the Neu 1512/1.5Y down (very slightly). Gearing up will naturally give you more top end and less low end.

jhautz, therein lies my problem. When I gear the Neu motor at the same gearing that I'm running the 9XL, the performance of the Neu seems anemic. A few of the guys at the track asked me why I went with such a slow motor.

If it wasn't for the heat issue, I would have gone back to the 9XL.

I didn't think that I was overgeared because the Quark is running at about 130 or so. I thought I had to gear up more, but the cogging stopped me from doing that.

I did think that there was something wrong with the motor. That's why I sent it back to Neu. They said that nothing is wrong with it and sent it back to me.

I had to gear the Neu at 17/46 to match the speed that I was getting with the Feigao at 14/46. I know that it doesn't sound right, but that's what I have.

To hell with it. I'll gear back down to 15/46 and see what happens to the motor temps.

I have been quite disappointed with this 1.5Y. I was supposed to get a 2.5d back, but go figure. They screwed up and sent me the wrong motor.

Take them up on the offer to exchange for the 2.5D!!!!!!!! There is no way people should be making comments about how slow it is. When I run my revo with the 1512/2.5D I get people walking up to check it out all the time cuz they cant believe how fast it is.

I would think the 1.5y would be very similar but maybe there is something about the Y winds.... or that particular y wind.

I would sure trade it out if the offer is still open.