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The ones I got where not low esr. They were these http://www.digikey.com/scripts/DkSea...983-ND&Site=US I'll probably mount some right ones on the Quark first. I have bundled 4 together that I am going to attach soon hopefully.
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I think that the older ones handle the 5S better. None of the MMs that I bought in the last few months will do 5S. The two that I bought shortly after their release are the ones that do run 5S. The funny thing is that I blew up both of those controllers running them in my Muggy. 13lbs of truck geared at 10/46 killed them both. The repair receipt that I got back from Castle said that they needed to replace FETs.
I've been running my 8ight T tonight on 5S with the 9XL geared 10/44 with 40 series Proline Moabs. With the standard MT tires and wheels, I'm at a bit of a loss for gearing. Running 4S, I was geared 16/44 with the standard tires/wheels. I would have thought that that would have been over geared, but I'm getting VERY little cogging and only occassionally. I then tried 5S at that gearing. I thought I'd need to go down on the pinion, but I wanted to try it. It ran fine. I know the 8ight is 3lbs lighter than the Muggy was, but at least some of this has to be the result of the cap bank. |
i recommend Nippon Chemi-con KY series Caps.
or Nichicon PJ series Caps. Quark original cap is KY Caps. |
The PJ series caps have an ESR value that is over 50% higher than the PL series we are using. 0.096 compared to 0.06Ohm for the PL.
These were a good deal, and readily available. |
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I must have missed this post? :eek: No troubles AAngel, please I don't want to be out of your way over the caps, do it whenever you can. As I don't have my Quark back yet anyways. I don't even know where I can even get alum. oxide powder here, or for that matter a store that sells that stuff. I'll keep my eyes open. The results you have seem real to me, if those are the temps you read... Like you said, the reason manufacturers don't use more, is space. We really just nee higher 'performace' caps, with lower ESR, and higher ripple current capability. BTW, I though the MM had 220uF caps? I see in the pic they are three 330uF caps, that might be why the MM doesn't have as bad cap issues as the Quark. |
OK guys, another update. I realized something today. Some of you may have noticed my complaining about the weight of my Muggy, being 13lbs. That's one of the reasons that I got the 8ight T. Well, I'm just an idiot.
I doctored up some Dynamite 23mm LST2 hexes to fit my 8ight T and put some 40 series Moabs on the 8ight T. Get this...with the huge tires on it, 5S2P 8Ah lipo pack, and everything else, it came in at 12lbs 15oz. Go figure. My point being this. When I was running the MM in the Muggy, at 10/46 gearing, it cogged so badly that it cooked the MM. Now that I'm running the MM with the cap bank, I'm running the Moabs (which are taller than the Mashers on the Muggy) with 12/44 gearing without a hitch. The caps are definitely having an impact on the performance of the esc. I do have a question though, for you more knowledgeable guys. Can the addition of the caps in some way prevent the FETs from frying? How is it that the addtion of the caps is reducing the cogging so much? I know it is the caps because the esc that I'm running now is the exact same one that I fried on the MM/5S setup before. |
Indirectly I guess they can prevent them from being fried/stressed alot. The caps allow for better FET switching (from ON to OFF to ON...). I have prob said that before in this thread, but so ppl know. It also obsorbs all the noise/spikes/all the garbage stuff from the the power stage, basically cleaner power, the 'brains' of the controller maybe does not get so confused then?
I really can not tell you exactly what it can/does do inside the power circuit, cause that's all I know. Apparently it is working great! :027: :027: :eek: |
zpb, I'm going to try like heck to get your caps out to you tomorrow. I don't anticipate being in court all day. I'm kind of anxious to see what your findings are relative to all of this. I know that you guys have been talking about this in techno jargon, but all of that went over my head. I'm more of a cause and effect sort of guy. I'll be interested in hearing what your observations are.
BTW, I tried 5S A123 today. I think I'm in love. When my Quark gets back, I want to try 6S A123. |
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Tell me more about how you like the A123's, as I am in love with as well... Please, I don't want to be out of your way in sending these caps, do it when you can. I don't even know if my Quark arrived at S&T yet. |
I ran the A123s in a 5S1P configuration in my 8ight T. Even with the 1P configuration, the batteries only temped 130*F. I know that's hot, but it is within spec, and it tells me that running a 2P configuration is going to run MUCH cooler. These batteries can deliver punch. The 5S1P A123 pack had as much, if not more, punch than my 4S2P 8Ah lipo pack. What was also great was that I had forgotten to set the voltage cutoff. I ran the pack until is dumped, which is ver abrupt. One second I was doing wheelies and the next, the truck would hardly move. Since I was running a 2S pack and 3S pack in series and only had one charger, I had to charge them individually.
True to the claims, each pack charged in 15 minutes. I won't say that the performance is the greatest advantage of these cells, because in my setups, the lipos do fine. I think the greatest advantage is going to be in not having to worry about fires due to a crash or charging error. I have to say that I am sold on the cells. I don't like the form that the premade packs come in, but I will be getting some loose cells. This is what I was running them in... http://i154.photobucket.com/albums/s...r/DSCF0272.jpg Just as a point of reference, that tire on the right is one of the stock MT tires. |
Brian, you're right. What she doesn't know won't hurt her, right?
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lol, I guess not. Hopefully she won't come here and see that you said that! :)
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I'll swear that it wasn't me. LOL
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Well, that's music to my ears! I assure you, running 2p from 1p is HUGE, especially at speed, the higher holding voltage will give much more punch.
What gearing were you at? As 1p is really pushing these cells hard. I find they are very capable indeed, let's be honest, that amount of power being safely delivers from 2.3Ah! :027: The dumping is one of my favorite parts of these cells! It literally is ABRUPT, I have done high speed runs up and down streets, the whole run, same power; once I got to the other end, I turned around and had no power to get back! :eek: :005: hehe |
With the tires that you see in the pic, I was geared 12/44. The only thing that concerns me about the A123s is that 10 cells weighs in excess of 700 grams. That's more than a 4S2P 8Ah pack. I just don't know if the capacity to weight ratio is worthwhile. I won't know until I can get an actual real world runtime on the A123 2P pack.
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For me personally, I don't care for more runtime than 15-20 mins (18/51, 7XL), but the weight isn't heavy, it's just not as dense as LiPo (they sacrifice safety for energy). Another thing about the A123's is that they deliver more of their Ah rating compared to LiPo.
I will for sure let you know how my system compares to before with more caps on the Quark. BTW, I used to have 1/8 Moabs on my 1/6 rally car (4wd). They were good all-around tires, on asphalt, dirt, and grass (drifting was super fun on grass) |
wow, that looks like a totally different truck. it is great to see that the caps are working so well for you. I will wait to see a few more people test them and then I will have to pick some up to add to my mm.
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Got the caps today Aangle. Thanks for the speedy delivery. I wired up a 5 cap stick and slodered it up tonight. I'm using my Matrix buggy as my test platform. I'm running 5s, Quark 80B and a 1512/2.5D and at 16/46 gearing it would get to thermal in about 5 minutes in grass even with a heatsink. I was running all day at 14/46. I'm going to see if it will allow me to run the 16/46 gearing now. I never had a cogging issue so I wont be able to coment on that part. (have to leave that to the folks running the MM, Quarks dont cog.)
I'm traveling for work tomorrow and friday and the "honey do" list is pretty long for Saturday. So hopefully I'll get some good weather on sunday and be able to put this to the test. If they help temps, every ESC I have will get them. |
Capacitors; man's new best friend.
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JHAUTZ: So they DID make a difference for you then? It's kinda hard to know from how you said it.
Capacitors are my best bud, they always have been. :027: |
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I'll be waiting! :027:
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I got my caps in on Wednesday, also a very fast delivery :005:. Unfortunately I haven't gotten around to soldering them up yet, but I am hoping to do that tomorrow. And, I do have some real testing to do: 7XL/MM on 5s2p A123 geared for ~41mph (or I can drop the spur teeth and run it at 47mph), and I have my Hyper 8, which is now running a Neu 1512 2.5D and MM, on Maxamps 4s 5000mah Lipo geared 18/46 (WAY too high, estimated 48mph top speed). The Hyper 8 is geared high enough that it cogs VIOLENTLY on startup about half the time, however, the MM has not yet thermalled even without a fan over it.
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Finally capacitors being discovered by RC!!!
But keep in mind they only good if they close to FET's, very close, almost mounted on top of them. Cap per bank of FET's, otherwise you add inductance which doesn't help you at all, actually will cost you at higher RPM's... While selecting capacitors in addition to ESR and Voltage check for 125C version. |
Yeah, the 125C versions will last longer on higher temperatures.. I am curious what they do..
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Was there a 125A? GriffinRU, yeah, I'm trying to think of best way to get as close as possible to Quark with caps, it's hard. I'll see. |
temperature rating..
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While I had my Quark, I did mount up a bank to it. If you stick the bank on top of the Quark with the bank leads just over the battery leads on the Quark, you can make the connection with a very short piece of wire. Just watch the orientation of the + and - leads before you encapsulate everything. Ideally, you'd have the corresponding + and - leads on the esc and bank vertical to each other. The distance isn't far at all.
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Griffin, I don't know that I have the right stuff. I know that my placement of the caps is only as close as I could get them. I also know that they have had a positive effect, so something good must be happening.
So...fill me in on this inductance. Something more to worry about.:019: |
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If you want to get a little bit more in-details, then I will recommend to read app. note AN-978, and just read around as well. If you have any questions, send me PM. |
Artur,
Thank you for the reference. If you know of any publication along the lines of "Speed Controllers for Dummies" I'd appreciate it if you'd let me know. My obsessive compulsive nature is kicking in now and I NEED to know more. |
Printing the app note now. I'll leave it on the top of the toilet where I know I'll read it. LOL
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4 Attachment(s)
I had I chance to add 4 caps on the MM in my Ofna MBX basher. I don't think the MBX was ever intended to have this much power. It really doesn't handle all that well compared to others, but it makes a great basher. It's set up with 10L, MM, 4s Flight power 3700mah.
I made a 4-pack of caps. Strategically placed them so all the negative wires faced the middle and then ran the positive wires along the out side. Used some tape to hold them in place and shoe goo'd them togeter. Soldier them up and added some shrink tubing. Maybe its my imagination but the caps seemed to make it punchier. I never had problems with heat at the ESC but the temp was an ice cold 100* with fan attached. I think the ESC is running cooler by about 10-15*. Here are some pics. I can't wait to add caps to my Quark controllers. |
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I used a 5 cap bundle added into the battery wires as close to the esc housing as I could get it. I can say.... I wasnt worse so I dont think it was huting anything. I'll let you know what I see whe I get a chance to spend a little more time with it and get some more conclusive results. |
Well, good to hear that. IMO, the leads are a little long on the caps (cap leads), but it should work decent. anything helps.
Do a good hard bashing, and quickly as possible touch the caps to see how warm they are. I still don't know what exactly I will do for mine. If I know how warm they run, I might just use shrink wrap on them. Seeing as CC uses it on theirs... just IMO, from what I have seen with computer motherboard caps, the MM look like they are better quality caps, and/or better performance. This is just based on the color of the writing, not decisive though. |
My caps were not even warm, but it might be different in other applications.
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Guy, in my setup, you really have to run it to get to feel the difference in heat. I ran my 8ight today with the MM with the 4 cap bank. After a solid hour of running (I think I toasted a Feigao), I temped 160 on the esc. The funny thing is that sometime during the running, the fan got busted. Oh, and BTW, it was a good 90* out today. In the middle of the day, I took a temp on the tailgate of my truck and it read 110*F. It was hot! I know that my MM used to NEED a fan. Now, it's running 160, without a fan in the heat. I like it.
When I get my Neu motor, if it runs well on the MM, I'm sticking with it. I'll sell off the Quark and Compro. |
I think we are seeing the same thing. Cooler temps on the ESC.
Man, I hated the way My MM/Neu stuttered. It was unacceptable to me. Sure will be nice someday though when they get out an update for that. |
So you haven't tried running a Neu with your MM yet Cartwheels?
You should try it! :027: |
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