Efficiency and amp draw are not tied together directly. Amp draw creates heat with resistance, but higher wind (higher voltage) motors also have more resistance to go along with the reduced amp draw. So, without dyno graphs and specs of a specific motor the ideal voltage and KV cannot be determined for a particular situation.

Of course buying more batteries is an inconvenience. So is buying a new motor and ESC. I would prefer a wind that was great on 6s and outrageous on 8s for battery amp draw reasons. The MMM is a 6s controller so a 4s mild, 6s wild motor just makes sense for the first release.

I really don't want to talk motor theory, but keep this in mind when studying motor specs... on the Neu site I think the amp draw specs are max amps at the max rated voltage. The watts should be basicly equal on all winds. Lower kv motors will naturally have an efficiency advantage due to the lower currents they use to make the same horsepower.

Sure I'd like to see more CC MMM motors offered....but the fact that they are only going to initially offer a 2200kv motor is not going to sway me (or other enthusiasts) one way or another. Neu 1515 motors are "cheap" right now...$245 on Neu's website! These are proven motors and that's some of the best pricing I've seen in a while. The way I see it is that if folks want more selection in kv, they will buy it directly from Neu. After all, we always have in the past...why should anything change now? The "genuine" Neu motors (not the CC version) are certain to still be better in terms of quality...which is what I use as a guiding principle for most of my purchases. If I am building a special rig or if I have a special application, then I will still probably go with a Neu.

I am not going to sit here and beat up CC for not offering more kv motor selections. I can control that myself by purchasing the very best motor money can buy from Neu. However, what I will beat up CC for, is not cowboying up and getting the MMM product to market before the foreign competition got theirs out on the street. But its not just CC...there are others that in my view that are also guilty and have been asleep at the wheel. I have to tell you...the expectation is pretty high at this point and time for the U.S. market to come up with something truly spectacular...namely a HV ESC that blows the competition away.

I think an HV MMM would've been the perfect controller. Like I said before, have it handle up to 12S lipos and I know a controller that handle 12S can also handle 6S. Then the choice for a motor would've been huge. Just picture a Mega ACn22/50/2E running 12S of the little 2200 or 2500mAh cells. A few guys would probably a Plettenberg Bolido n a 5th scale. It's funny how Schulze has a huge array of controller and Castle has the ability to do that, but they are lacking behind. Yes, Castle has better programming and awesome features in the controllers they make, but where is the HV version for vehicles?

To answer your questions:

1. From those specs it looks like the the 1.5y isn't ideally 1.5 turns in comparison to the 1y. An ideal 1.5 turn would have wire that is 1.5 times the length has a 1 turn and 2/3 the cross sectional area (to fit in the same space), making it have 1.5 x 1.5 = 2.25 times the resistance and 2/3 the kv. That said, the motors cannot be considered "equivalent" with the 1y on 4s and the 1.5y on 6s.

2. http://www.enerland.com/product/p1.php?num1=1&num2=4 These are considered to be some of the best cells in the industry. It's quite obvious that bigger cells hold their voltage better under a load than smaller cells when you look at the discharge curves. True that there seem to be no 6000 cells available, but that has nothing to do with my point. I was comparing 4000 mah cells to 6000 mah cells for the sake of simplicity.

3. I never said that lower voltage was more efficient than high voltage. In fact i never even said they were equal in reality. I said that a neu 1y on 4s is efficient enough for it not be necessary to use a slower motor on 6s. So how can a 4s setup that a.) that still runs cool and b.) has all the power you need, be inadaquate?

1. I don't have an opinion on the motor choice as I certainly won't be buying a 1515 2200kv motor.

2. I'm not sure which discharge curves you're looking at but if you take a look at the charts for a 2S 4500mAh and compare to a 4S 2000mAh you'll see that the 4S pack holds its voltage just as well or better than the 2S pack. With this kind of performance you'll get more efficiency from the higher voltage system.

3. This question is relative to the end user. Cool to you may be hot for me. My ESC's typically don't run much over 100F. I equate efficiency just as high as power. In other words, just because a system can put out 4hp doesn't justify its usage especially when there is a more efficient system available that can produce the same power using less resources.

I personally am excited for the ESC. I run 4S right now and won't be doing more than that, so I am not too concerned. Main thing I am looking forward to is the fact that I don't need all the fans, and external UBEC like before.

I am with you on that one Cain. I can use my MM in something else and just grab the mmm esc for my 4s buggy, and then a combo for truggy.

Would there be an issue if the MMM/2200KV had torque and rpm limiting software?

i understand that using a higher voltage lipo yields less amp draw, which yields lower temperatures. what i am cofused on is that i can use a lower C rating and less mah and still get the same run time?
any info would help
can't wait for the mmm

Thats about right strodedawg. Personally I think you could sacrifice one or the other but not both C rating and capacity, just to be on the safe side in case of large peaks of current draw. I know the outrunner guys have used some much lower capacity packs -3000mah or so- with great runtimes still.

I run 20 minutes on my 6S 2200mAhpacks without an issue. One of the reasons why it would've been good for Castle to just do a 12S capable controller. They have the MM that can handle 4S so why not have the MMM handle 12S. I think they would finally have a complete line of ESCs. The math is simple. If you have a 2000 Watt combo you would draw 90A on 6S, 54A with 10S and 45A with 12S to get the same amount of power. With higher voltage you will also have to go with a smaller pinion and/or larger spur. Another option would be to use the 4.3:1 diffs that some truggies have in your buggies.

cool, i have a crt with the HB ring and pinions and a neu 1515/2d (2050 kv). waiting for the MMM and a 6s lipo (2 x 11.1 in series)
thanks for the info

So, I'm guessing that the MMM will go on sale on April 1st, the day after the March 25% off sale ends. Thoughts? :-)

I bet you're right in the sense that it won't be out during the 25% off sale, but I doubt it'll be out April 1st. More like..... late April to May I'm thinking.

I doubt the sale will put them off releasing it if it is done before then. They will release it as soon as it is done. It may not be available on their website to buy though until the sale is over but other retailers will have them. Personally I think it will be April before it is released but for other reasons.

Status.
 

Well it's nice to see that everyone is still haggling about all of the different ways they could have gone compared to the way they are going. All of the spec information that you guys have shared is educational for sure, but CC is still going to put out what they have tested and stated to us. Joe and his crew have been hard at it and they have already set the specs they intend to sell us for right now, so we will either buy it or not. From all of the excitement I bet most of us will purchase the kit just to see how it turns out. It will be a hit for most of us, but there will still be some unhappiness out there no matter what setup they sell us.

March was the expected date, but from the info shared by Joe we all know it will most likely be sometime within the next 60 to 90 days. That is just the way it goes when you are depending on outside sources for components that you cannot make in house. The spring frenze will be interesting for sure, along with all of the summer testing that all of us will be doing. I am willing to bet that as soon as we purchase the CC MMM kit the demand for other motors will go up quickly. This is going to be quite and interesting summer for all of us. Have a good one fellas:lol:.

What info from Joe are you talking about?

Long Thread
 

I know it is a long thread, but if you read all of the posts Joe even mentions that CC is awaiting components from outside sources that have not yet come in. He also makes mention of things that are out of his control that are holding up production, and that they are trying their best to get it on the shelves for us. I have been following the thread from its begining and I do not have the time to re-read the entire thread to pull out each individual post for you. Read the thread the information is there.

Joe,
Is Castle still on for a March release? We are starting to hear April but not from Castle, just rumors. Any updates for us?

Seen On Castle forum @ Rcgroups (they do lot of support there, remember RC Aicraft ESC is there primary market :P)

"Andy,

I was supposed to get samples from the completed mold this week. I haven't seen 'em yet, but hoping they will get here soon!

Thanks!

Patrick"

"Patrick,

What are the chances of you sending a controller for someone else then the CC staff to test them?


"It's possible.

But we aren't far off from having production boards in stock. Anything you would get today will have a few pieces and parts grafted onto the circuit board, so won't have the greatest reliability...

Patrick"

Does anyone know the dimensions of the new MMM?


.

The footprint will be 1.95" by 1.75".

Hey, saw cold fusion in one of the reader's rides sections in a rc mag. Nice job on that truck BTW!

Thanks man! I can't believe it got in, though the stupid thing is, I still haven't seen it in there...I've been busting a gut to get hold of the April copy that it's in, lol (RCCA's tricky to get here in the UK). But I'll get one somehow. Cheers mate. :)

I have it here and have read it already. If you want it, PM me your address and i can mail it to you. How much do you think postage would be? Cant be very much.

Wow, thanks for the kind offer! I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get hold of a copy somewhere over here, but if I get really stuck, then I might take you up on that. Thanks! :)

lol. OK but dont wait too long... They dont last that long around here after I get done reading them.:wink:

http://www.rcx.com/ME2/Default.asp

Will they wait until here?

I did not see Castle listed as a sponsor...if that means anything...

Castle Creations is listed as an Exhibitor at that event.....

http://rcx.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=BF...7D659908C73F25

I might be heading down to that. I'll let you know what I find out if I go, assuming the MMM hasn't been released by then.

I'll be at RCX for sure. :yes: Already made plans of how the day will go. Can't wait!! I'll try to pull some info out of them too, if the MMM isn't out by then.

Methinks there will be a good RCM turnout at the show. Unfortunately I can't get out of working on that Saturday(even though I asked a month and a half in advance!), unless I can get someone to cover my shift.

ZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzz........ ....!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Crap!

Sorry, fell asleep waiting for the MMM email, I didn't miss it did I ?!?!?!?!?!!!!!

Hehehehehe

Just kidding, it doesn't realy bother me too much as I still have to put a few more dollars into the MMM jar before I can pick it up :)

Jhautz, don't worry about it now...I've managed to locate a copy here in the UK. Thanks again for the offer though!

As for the MMM, I'd be amazed if it wasn't at the RCX show. I bet CC are doing all they can to get it out by then.

Bet
 

I would be willing to bet that they will at least have one of their prototypes at the RCX to show it off. After all they have already been testing it, so they have working models in hand. We will look forward to seeing some posts here after the show. You guys that will be able to make it can update us on what you see.:lol:

Remember to take a digital camera, and charge its batteries the night before the show.....

No problem. Glad you found it.

Just received this from CC:

"The Monster Max for 1:8th scale is still in final development.
BEST case scenerio would be about 6 weeks.
I know, it's even hard to write that...."

Not surprised, but still disappointed.