RC-Monster Forums - Castle - Make A Special Edition Monster

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- - Castle - Make A Special Edition Monster (https://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12536)

A lot more than a year ago, if ever IMO. I had a mamba max system over a year ago, and it was the smoothest thing I ever drove even back then, on any batteries :)

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Originally Posted by Pdelcast (Post 180868)

...Ok, so I've kinda got the "Mondays" myself. 'Cause I have to get up at 5:30am to fly to California. And I don't want to go to California.
And it's been raining here a lot, and my backyard is flooding and mulch is pouring into my pool and I keep having to spend hours cleaning it out.
And I got an E-Revo and I haven't even had time to install a Monster in it yet....

Don't feel bad, I think I have a pool in my basement! The water is coming up through the floor almost faster than I can pump it out. And just when I make decent headway, the stupid weather decides to drop another 1-2" of rain in 5 minutes!

And since my workshop is in my basement, it's not fun. I only have standing water is the low spots, but still tough to work on things hopping from high spot to high spot. Grrr.

I guess when it rains, it really does pour...

Just to rub it in guys, we are experiencing a mini-heat wave today; boiling hot and sunny!

My MMM has been 100% smooth in bench testing, save for the brake issue which I am working on, so I guess sensors arent really needed in this application anymore with the better software of sensorless. That said, I still would like Novak (boo! evil!) to release a 6s sensored esc, with realistic specs, and proper motors. I guess I will be able a realistic comparison now since I can run both escs on 4s lipo and 14 cells, with the hv6.5 motor providing the motive power. Cant say fairer than that really...

What I want to see is a Novak HV motor run on an MMM. If sensored technology is really THAT bad, AND and people are consistantly getting sub 150* temps on the motors and I am getting an easy 45-50 mph with my hv4.5/8ight, I can only guess that using an MMM/Novak HV setup would be pretty sweet. Not only that, but a HV6.5 or 7.5 on 6s would also be pretty sick.

You may be in luck my friend.

The MMM runs my hv6.5 perfectly, no cogging at all or even the slightest stutter. I plugged in one of my 6s A123 packs, which is equal to about 5s lipo in voltage, for testing with. I wound it out to max rpms, and all I can say is fook may, its abit scary at that speed.....

I would like to thank Patrick for his outstanding attitude and willingness to come on such forums and others to listen to customer feedback and field questions (tho innane and ignorant some may be.)

That being said, I still stick to my wish list. A 8S capable controller with outstanding hardware and software. Good customer service is obvious (and well handled by CC.) A relatively small footprint, simple mounting, reliable heat dissipation w/o the use of fans (as Pat dC said, K.I.S.S.) and an amp capability of 120-160A or so. Preferably splashproof. 6mm or 5mm bullets would be great. A switching BEC is gravy. Oh, also anti-spark tech built in. (Anyone that's plugged a 40V battery into an ESC w/o pre-charged caps know what I mean.)

The MGMs are outstanding hardware, but the software is primitive compared to CC's. Its not horrible, but CC is so far above everyone else software-wise it's no comparison. As said before, a CC version of the MGM 16024 would be the end all of controllers. I realize this would be a very niche controller of a already small market, but wishes can be anything.

Patrick, I do have one question on the controller you are toying around with.. what would be the purpose of of going higher than 8S? IE, is what you are targeting an 1/8th scale or 1/5th scale controller?

For 1/8th scale, from my bit of experience, going above 8S gives diminishing returns. Ideally you are shrinking the battery capacity as you are upping voltage. 10 or 12S of even a 3.2Ah pack is pretty heavy. Small lipo batts (say below 3.2Ah) start losing energy density ( ie mAh/g) so any eff benefits lose ground to greater weight to get the required runtime. If its the same FETs to be used, then great, more V headroom. If its pricer FETs, can the specs/price come down? Tho I'm sure you've already considered this...

OTOH, are you attempting a 1/5th scale/Prius capable Big @$$ M.F. MMM ESC (BAMFMMMESC)? I just wonder if it would be a bit overkill for 1/8th scalers who want to run HV (a minority of a minority) in power and price. I can't see an 1/8th scale that would ever need or even use a 12S 3200 mah pack.

For marketing purposes you may want to cut down the name a bit tho, maybe just "Godzilla Max" (he was a lizard too.) BAMFMMMESC does seem kinda catchy tho. :)

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Originally Posted by suicideneil (Post 180960)

Just to rub it in guys, we are experiencing a mini-heat wave today; boiling hot and sunny!

Enjoy it! Weird weather in the US lately. Intense heat on the East Coast, snow on the West Coast (north, but still abnormal for June), and crazy rain/floods around my area that are damaging properties all over the place.

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Originally Posted by BrianG (Post 181392)

its from all those nitro people

I bow to Mr Patrick del Castillo (Where is the bow smilie). Reading posts like that makes me wish I worked at Castle.

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Originally Posted by Pdelcast (Post 180868)

I'm going to disagree with you here. Sensored motors are marketed with a lot of HYPE -- The makes of sensored systems have been BSing the public for a couple years now, telling them that sensorless is inferior, in the hopes that people will buy into their hype. And some people have bought into the hype.

Try this: Take a sensored motor and measure how much phase imbalance the sensors have -- you'll be astonished and shocked at how BAD the sensors are. Typical sensor phase imbalance is around 10 degrees from sensor to sensor, and that's just PHASE imbalance. Even on high-end military motors there is at least 5 degrees of phase imbalance -- just because Hall sensors trigger points aren't precise. And timing itself is completely ambiguous with a sensored system - - and because it is ambiguous, it can't add any meaningful data to the rotor position estimate.
Not only that, but sensors also trigger incorrectly all the time during run (by winding flux) -- and the sensor controllers blindly follow the incorrect sensor outputs...

Granted, sensored systems can produce more torque at stall than sensorless systems. But in RC applications we can generate more torque at startup than is required using only sensorless algorithms.

You state:

But that really isn't true. Once the sw PLL is locked (within a few commutation cycles) we can control timing to within .1 degrees -- how can an ambiguous sensor system with jitter and phase imbalance add to that? Adding sensors into the equations just makes the position data LESS precise.

Believe me, we build hybrid controllers (that start sensored and run sensorless) for both the military and industrial applications, and have been building those types of controllers for years.

We've done all the math, the simulations, and modeled the systems extensively. Once the sensorless software is locked, sensors add nothing but noise to the system.

Sensors are useful for generating a lot of torque at stall (> 20% PWM duty cycle lengths), but with the motors we use in RC, we can't even PWM at 20% during stall -- they would draw thousands of amps. So even at a 20% max duty at stall we can generate PLENTY of torque at startup -- Seen the videos of people backflipping Monster Trucks with the MMM from a standing start? :smile:

So there's my rant about sensors. With respect to timing and control, Sensorless = precision, Sensored = ambiguity.

Ok, so I've kinda got the "Mondays" myself. 'Cause I have to get up at 5:30am to fly to California. And I don't want to go to California.
And it's been raining here a lot, and my backyard is flooding and mulch is pouring into my pool and I keep having to spend hours cleaning it out.
And I got an E-Revo and I haven't even had time to install a Monster in it yet.

And I keep editing this post 'cause I don't want people to think I'm angry or being aggressive about this... I just want to present the facts...

Monday-Monday - it is Friday :)

Patrick you are:

talking about spindle motors...
miss the fact that we would like to have hybrid system (or based your opinion)
sensors imbalance is fixed (constant for given motor) and can be offset (I am not even going into phase shift with RPM business)
optical sensors are rock-solid
motor windings are even worse in terms of matching, not even considering that load on the motor shaft is not constant in car-applications
once motor spinning use sensoreless feedback, it is free no hardware to add
braking, pulling and holding that is what you can do great with precise rotor position feedback
for $$$ you can add encoder and it can be single wire, or even wireless

Couple thoughts, sensoreless ESC starts at stand sill only if you have backslash or you being in motion before or at least kept memory of position (Or very clever software :) ). 20% PWM at stall is not high current if you matched with magnet pole and motor is rated for the load.

Hall sensors are cheap and sensitive to all kind of things, including magnets or screwdrivers in their proximity, but can be shielded or replaced with opto...

All the rest is irrelevant, because there is no good sensored controller on the RC market to do the comparison.

____
MGM hardware with CC software - I am hearing that allot. Patrick have you checked what is different between your creation and theirs?

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