Castle - Make A Special Edition Monster
 

First, I really appreciate Castle stepping up to the plate to make a reliable ESC for us 1/8 & Monster guys. I am sure all the bugs will get worked out so no worries.

However, I want a manufacturer to really make a true bulletproof ESC for the more serious hobbyist who is more concerned about performance instead of price.

I would gladly pay $500 bucks for an ESC that
1) is easily programmable
2) runs cools without a fan up to 6s with high amp motors
3) has a case design that can handle 40 mph lawn darts over 30 foot triples

I think many of the people buying these ESCs for 1/8s are not as price sensitive as the 1/10 basher crowd who buys their other systems. I probably have dropped $2k on my rc8 conversion in total. I rather just pay it all upfront for one system I know is going to work flawlessly even if it cost more.

I have yet to see too many teenagers or saving up their allowance for their 1/8 conversion. Most of us have jobs, mortgages, wives, and pretty decent disposable income. While I am sure Castle wants to bring it to the masses, much of the demand for these components is coming from guys like me. I am sure many of the flaws we are seeing have to do with the price point of the ESC.

So, Castle design and make us a "Factory Team" Monster where you aren't cutting corners in quality for us racers and guys trying to break speed records. I will be first in line.

1. MMM is easily programmable, although the Quark SSB will have a programming box for field use, just like a few of the ebay esc that are around.
2. Almost impossible. Only way to do that is to make the esc huge, and use lots of FETS that are over-rated for 6s 200amp use. Im thinking it would look something like the Schulze things, huge flat pancakes that wont mount in a truck very easily.
3. See above. You could put it in a case like the Quark monster pro, but again, it would be huge.

Seems like what you are after is the Tekin RX8.... :whistle:

Agreed!
 

I too would pay more if necessary. I've spent a lot of time and money researching and building several brushless conversions. (8ight, 8ight-t, Muggy, E-Maxx and others). Bring on the bulletproof, I'll pay. I understand that toys are meant to break so that the manufacturers can sell us parts, OK but, give me the option of paying all my money up-front and saving the time and frustration and I'm there!

I'm pretty sure that the MMM will get to where it hits 1, 2 & 3 once the shutdown issues have been solved and some time has passed for basic/simple "mods" to be perfected.

I think the Monster is close performance wise once the component bugs are worked out. Mine was running really cool and I use a high amp Neu 1512 1.5d on 4s. Mine never got over 150 degrees and that was after the fan broke during a race. I think the case and fan design is a bit weak for racing. I would have gladly paid more for a more durable case. The base of the case should be aluminum so it can be screwed securely to the car or top plate. I would also lose the grill on the top of the case and have the fan screwed directly to the heat sink which is what I am going to do after I get mine back from Castle.

Easy cure here for mounting. Make a molded stap arangement that fits over the top and down the sides of the MMM. Have a few feet that have holes so that it can be attached to the chassis. Use some servo tape under the esc for a little shock protection. I would also like to see the MMM have an internal cushoin to protect the lower board from contacting the case. And a really good fan, with bigger bearings.

A stand alone program box would be cool, but it would have to be like a pda with the casle link program on it to offer all of the adjustment, like the throttle and brake curves. Maybe a box or card that can control the std prog menu of punch control, brake %, etc. would be good enough, I never fool with the curves.

well... im still a teen in school who has limited money, and very little time to earn it! for me, a $500 esc, while being ALMOST bulletproof, would not be affordable. this is why i congrtulate castle, even with its current temporary problems is an extraordary esc for an even more impressive price!

their products have enabled myself and many other people my age access to this technology and fun.

ryan :)

I'm with you Edumakted. A factory team edition with some upgrades would be nice. Personally I dont care if it needs a fan as long as the fan actually works and would be easily replaceable without tearing the whole thing completely apart to get at it. The current case is useless for any kind of long term racing use. One of mine is already falling apart and its only been on the track for 2 race days and 3-4 practice sessions. The thing looks like Frankenstein from all the zip ties and mods I have had to do just to keep it together.

I have already started sketching some ideas up in solidworks for an aftermarket case for this thing. I dont have anything really worth doing yet, but I think I'll be able to come up with something that will be an improvement. Right now I'm trying to keep it all plastic. It may incorporate some of those press fit threaded metal inserts so it can be mounted mechanically. I agree with you, this thing is just a little to heavy to be trusted to only servo tape.

The current version doesnt need to go away. The current version would probably be fine for 75% of the current customers once the bugs are worked out. I think he is saying he wants an option in addition to the current product.

I wouldn't pay $500 than only did all that, would expect it to have some sort of solar panel aswell which keeps charging the battery as driving or something :angel:

it HAS got regenerative brakes... thats better than nothing :D

Well, on the wishlist why not make it 12s, with a built in BEC that can handle a 20A load, with programmable output voltage.

But seriously, I think it would be tops if there was a BEC that had a built in programmable LVC. It even says in the faq that the ccbec is often used to replace rx batteries with lipos.

Repeat.
 

This issue has been repeated several times by Lutach, ByanG, and a few others who have asked CC for something more user friendly by the more experienced R/C hobby guy. Castle says that they are working on something for that group, but it does not take priority because they know it will not be as big a seller as something like the MMM. Companies like CC earn their profits by selling large amounts of their products, not just a few for the hi-tech enthusiest. So we can wish all we want, but unless someone is willing to put their money where their mouth is thats just not going to happen any time soon. Like stated prior maybe the Tekin RX8 or the Quark mk111 will be the ticket for now. It is nice to have options and this to will happen at some point, but there is still alot of money to be made with the products that are available to us now. From CC's point of view the demand is just not there yet for what you are asking. I am willing to bet if one of the top sponsored R/C racers was asking for this, it would be done. Best of luck with your quest.

My .02 on this subject

for a pricetag of $500 I would expect it to handle 32 cells like the MGM can, that ESC can be run without a fan and be ok...if you could combine the physical abilities of the HV MGM and CCs programabilities...that would put a smile on my face....:-)

Every ESC has it's strengths and weaknesses. I am just saying I would be willing to pay a premium for an ESC that incorporates all the strengths. I guess I am just tired of paying for things that cut corners to keep cost down for the masses. I rather pay for quality upfront instead of having to mod things or buy two or three. You aren't really saving money in the long run.

MGM: I like their design and they run cool. However, the programming and braking seem to need some work

Quark: Really smooth ESC, but has heat issues

Monster Max: Great programming capability, but needs better case design to be really durable.

Tekin: Vaporware...

To me castle is the closest. I know people wanted 6s, but honestly, I would have taken an updated regular Mamba for 4s with a better case design and incorporated BEC. My modded regular mamba worked flawlessly on 4s with the bec except for the crappy plastic case. I think if Castle really challenges themselves, they can come up with a better case design that is more durable and won't exceed the cost that the masses are willing to pay. The current design isn't good for anything except running your truck at 60mph up and down the street which I am sure is what most bashers are going to be doing, but it won't last more than a couple of trips to the track.

Here is what is needed:

1) threaded heat sink, so we can screw the fan directly to it like on the old school Mambas

2) a single piece case that uses screws to access the ESC guts. Not those little wimpy screws from the old Mamba. Has screws that allow direct screwing to the chassis or a top plate.

Screw it. Why wait for CC to do it. We could be here till we are old and grey witing for that. It sounds like all you really want is a new case thats tougher. Lets just design one to fit the MMM guts, make it and sell it as an aftermarket upgrade. Its not all that hard to do.

Sorry but I must disagree. I can't imagine how you drive your cars, but I've had the Mamba Max since its release, and had lots of huge high speed cartwheels and awkward landings on some big jumps and have never, ever, damaged the mamba case in any way. Filled it with sand, mud and dirt, yes, but cracked or damaged it? No.

The only way I've managed to hurt/kill my mamba is when I tried to perform Arturs mod's myself with innappropriate tools, and ended up destroying a bunch of the SMCs...

FWIW I don't think high speed runs count as bashing... bashing tends to be the hardest on your truck out of any form of driving, hence the name: bashing. For the most part, bashing is the youtube vids you see of kids driving there car off cliffs and hitting quater pipes and crappy home made shapeless launch ramps etc, only to try and land on flat ground in the middle of the road pfft *shudders* makes me cringe everytime I see them.

I too wouldn't have minded a 4S rated ESC with the BEC built in as that right now is the limits for Racing in MT class for RC Pro Series, and wouldn't be suprised that it becomes the limit if 1/8 scale racing takes off into an actual class.

My Mamba Monster so far has worked excellent for the day of racing I put it through. Just need to redo my servos and I will be set.

Anyway, I think the main thing I would want them to do for a special edition Monster is make one that does not require a fan at all. Has a programmable BEC, and if using the castle link have a plug that doesn't require me to always unplug from the receiver ala Mamba Max setup, just put a dirt cap on it. Do that and I am golden.

I agree with some of the sentiment here. An "elite" MMM would be nice, but the market would be so small that price would have to be really high to compensate.

But since we are talking "wishlist" here, I would like:

• 10s to 12s version.
  
  
• Opto (no BEC). I'll add my own.
  
  
• 200A capable. 200A is plenty for all but the most abusive systems. Maybe make the power PCBs potentially stackable for those few insane people who need 12S @ 400A. After all, who doesn't need almost 24HP in a vehicle.
  
  
• Retain the single layer power PCB. It's nice to have the heatsink on ALL FETs, not just a top layer. If stacking PCBs, use the HV series heatsinking method.
  
  
• Use a couple more caps for the setups that need it because of wire length. If the wires end up being short, that's ok, more caps won't hurt.
  
  
• NO FAN needed. But, for those who insist on using them, add some fan mounting threads to the heatsink, or an optional add-on fan mounting bracket.
  
  
• Taller heatsink. Might as well make use of the airflow inside our vehicles. I do like the current fin design itself, so keep that.
  
  
• Use a case that totally encloses the circuitry, but exposes the heatsink. Use o-rings or something around the wires/bullet connectors to help keep dirt out of the case.
  
  Or maybe even make the case out of aluminum kinda like the Quark 125B, and attach the heatsink to that. Make the bottom a plastic access panel to remove the guts if necessary. Changing heatsinks if desired would be a snap. Add mounting tabs for those who want to screw it down.
  
  And if the case is perfectly square, allow the bottom panel (where the mounting tabs are) to be rotated 90* to put the tabs where we need them.
  
  
• Retain the Castle Link programming method, but add the option of a programming card for those without laptops in the field. This would be a seperate order accessory. Or make the card included and the Castle Link cable the accessory - whatever.
  
  An added programming port (not using the throttle cable) would be nice, but only if it was a port in the case that had a cover (not another wire sticking out).
  
  
• Use bullet connectors for the wires. We can use matching bullets or solder our wires directly into the bullets as we see fit.
  
  
• Add a link cable to allow two ESCs to be used in Master/Slave mode for dual motor setups.
  
  
• Keep the exceptional customer support Castle is known for...

While on the "wishlist" thing i want one that is also dual channel so that i can run both motors on my wheelchair. 20s capable would be nice also.

If your chair uses brushed motors, you can do that on one channel. Just put them in parallel.

A dual channel ESC would just be two ESCs fed off one brain. Hey, I'll add that to my wishlist: the ability for a master/slave setup!

I think if you ran them in parallel you would only be able to go strait. Might be good for drag racing though. :lol:

Just hook both motors to a differential, and then apply brakes to the side you are turning into. :smile:

Thats how those truck pull Rcs do it isnt it? Those things are nuts (must visit clodtalk more often...)!

That is almost the decription of my MGM 9032. My wishlist would be that ESC, but with better programming, and away with the lame-o 3.5mm bullets.

Its a sweet controller, less than $500, just the CPU programming and CS from Czechoslovakia is lacking.
The MGM 16024 is awesome as well. Either of these cloned as a CC controller would be nice.

I guess I should add exceptional customer support. Too bad repairs for MGM takes so long.

Said in the voice of Patrick Stewart

"Make it so number 1"

I am looking for an opportunity to build ESC for monster-club members.

I can cover electronics, cooling and software, but I need somebody to help me out with micro programming. I got couple kits from atmel and siliconlabs, but have no time to play with them (need to feed the family, only week-ends for you guys) if anyone have a great experience with micro's let me know and we will blow away any ESC manufacture on the market (including MGM) with support and features with the help from RC-Monster members.

I am pretty sure Luciano (Lutach) can help us out with parts and RC-Monster forum members with specs and features. Why waiting for CC if they are deaf and ignorant and MGM is way too far, while Quark is lost in space and Tekin is just on horizon.

Man, someone would really have to know their stuff to create firmware for a sensorless BL controller! Even companies in the BL business for years can't seem to get it all done perfect (smooth/no cogging, good brakes/reverse, etc). And whoever you get to do this would be running the risk of blowing prototype ESCs until the bugs are worked out. I think many here would plunk down ~$500 for a "be all end all" controller, so I hope your search for a firmware developer is fruitful!

Seems like it would be easier to simply rob the brains from a MMM and make your own bullet-proof power PCB. With the exception of a couple of my "wish list" items, it looks like they all could be met with better FET hardware.

WTF am I doing here then?

Here's the deal -- take $7000.00 and bootstrap your own company in eight years to $11 million in sales and 50 employees in a niche market. THEN you can call me ignorant.

Yeah, good luck on that. First of all, the hardware isn't simple -- believe me, it's not just sticking some FETs and drivers on a board and wiring them together. Do you know what dV/dT induced turn-on is? Where it can happen? Do you know what current-induced shoot through is? Anyone can create a 10 or 20 amp MOSFET based controller -- but when you get over 100A and the induction voltages are HUGE -- that's when it becomes difficult. Believe me, I've been doing power design for over 20 years and everyone thinks it's easy UNTIL THEY TRY IT.
The first time you see a MOSFET turn on and destroy a controller, while the gate being held off by a driver, and no voltage on the gate, -- then you might know what I'm talking about.

And software -- there's six man-years of development time (and two patents) in the Mamba software. It's not really something that can be slapped together in a couple of weekends.

Oh, and by the way -- I started working on a larger MMM last weekend. Making it a pet "off the clock" project. My biggest issue right now is justifying the cost of tooling... but we'll see. :)

Patrick

No brain robbing mr Zombie!

Patrick - I wouldn't feel offended if I were you. Having gone through school and gotten a degree in EE I know how hard some of this stuff can get. (And I still had no idea about some the stuff you just mentioned :wink:)

If anything I would take it as a compliment - people always want to take shots at the guys on top and try and knock him down.

Notice that MGM as well as others already have the stuff out there for ESCs that are good up to 8 and 10S, but still you are being given crap about not having one and when will you have one. I read that as everyone saying if you build it we will come.

Ohhhh..... And if you could - would you please make your pet project support 30S lipo, 3500A and have a high votage ignition coil somewhere in it so I can generate lightning bolts to blow other cars off the track...... :tongue: :mdr:

[QUOTE=VintageMA;180146a high votage ignition coil somewhere in it so I can generate lightning bolts to blow other cars off the track...... :tongue: :mdr:[/QUOTE]

Oh! Good idea. Like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqRkEMfEtTo

OK, well 200A and single layer FET board would be REALLY BIG. It would take about 108 FETs to do 200A reliably (same number of FETs as the Phoenix-110HV.) or about 2.5" square with 6x5mm FETs (about 6 sq in of board.)

What I'm working on now is the same footprint as the MMM -- but with 72 HV FETs (36 per side) and stackable. Would be good for about 130-150A in single layer, 225A or so in double layer using our newest FETs. (If we can drive that many of them without creating too many issues.)

Patrick

:oh: A bigger MMM, could this be the Mamba Monster Max or Mamba Mega Monster

I think the official name will be MMMM. :lol:

or prehaps MX4

Mmmm
 

Mega Momba Monster Maxx:lol:. Cool I want one:yipi:. That bolt of electricity was pretty scary stuff. I had to watch that one like ten times. I just could not stop looking at that video. Thanks for sharing that with us.

I do not know?
One day... and probably with less effort.
But I do have respect for what you done and still doing, but I am bummed that you treat me as an idiot with solder iron or amateur - whatever you call it.

Nice, when you were starting your carrier I was modeling fet's...dv/dt... :)
Yeah I am hearing that allot about software and not from you only, just 2 patents

At the end I was trying to give you a hand, while you slapped it. Sorry my friend now I do not care what you a planning to do, as long as you make them I can tweak and improve them. And who knows maybe one day I will open my own company, but as for now I have no plans to do that.