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Hyper 8.5 pro build
hey guys! time for me to show you my plan... any help WILL be appreciated...
ingredients: parts of a pro kit, got the kit 1/2 price after we removed all the useless stuff (which shouldnt have been there in the first place!!) off it.:gasp: a neu 1512 2D Smooth can from castle a mamba monster (when it comes...) some proline knuckles a hitec 5955tg digital servo a 310 FM reciever for my radio a hyper motor mount 2x 4600mah a123 racing packs (13.2v nominal) ccbec if needed a kyosho plastic spur some gaskets diff oil shock oil some 16mm springs lastly some 8.5mm bullet connectors (cost the same as 1 lot of castle ones, for 20 of them so i figured why not!!) and a big mixing bowl :) ok, now for the problems! 1. the hyper mount doesnt fit... i have to remove the bottom plate thingy which leaves me with the problem of having to shim up the huge chassis brace as well as the other side of the diff housing thing... 2. the plastic spur needs shims, its like a locked diff at the moment!! 3. my esc and motor have to arrive yet 4. need to make a holder for my 600g batteries... unless i can get them on opposite sides, which is unikely, as the motor is in the way 5. the body is designed to fit an rc8... which means the guards protrude about 22mm each side!!! if i can, im going to make a battery mount and guard out of either acrylic sheet (cause its available) or aluminium which is heavy and harder to work with and will bend i think... and id have to buy it. 6. the servo needs a screw which i cannot find, i think it needs a 2.8x 8 but any ideas??? 7. im running out of money haha. so any suggestions would be much appreciated Ryan :) and i know: http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...postpics-1.gif |
1. Can you elaborate on this "bottom plate thingy"?
2. Pull the diff apart, and remove any shims already in it. If you've done that already, you may need to grind that circular raised section on the inner part of the Kyosho spur gear. Looking at the stock steel spur you'll notice that raised section isn't on there. 3. Good choice on electronics! 4. That's going to be a pain mounting 4s2p A123... I can imagine the left-right balance might be thrown off because of the weight. 5. Acrylic might not work so well, because it shatters easily. Thin-walled aluminum should work well and not weigh too much (check out BrianG's Hyper 8 to see the battery tray design he uses). 6. Usually that screw is a 2.5 or 2.6mm thread, and about 8mm long. 7. Gotta love that. |
thanks metal man, for some reason it doesnt send me emails any more when im subscribed... weird!
ok, here is a picture of the mount, i apologise for the quality, but ill take some better ones when i get the camera back. it is an easy fix, i will add spacers or something to the chassis mount, it rests there fine at the moment but may as well support it. removing the plate allows direct mounting onto chassis like its supposed to, but then i need to either: get another mount exactly the same height made (wonder if mike could do this for me :) ) with the bearing cutout, which would be more exact (i think) than a plastic one anyway, look cooler too. then the cf brace would fit fine. ok, i have seen briang's build (which is why i got the mount... silly me, forgot about the cnced part) 2. do i remove all of them, including the ones for the smaller gears which sit in the middle (note, i got a regular, non spider diff so i could mount it on. i thought this issue was simply fixed with a paper shim listed here on tower hobbies. will this shim solve my problems, otherwise it may just be easier to keep the metal spur (which i dont really want to, its extra weight and 1/2 the mesh thickness!!) 3. thanks, would have gone for a feigao or similar, but decided to spend the extra cash and get this motor. i really do hope it doesnt overheat!! (i will be annoyed to say the least!!) 4. i will tape them together (or similar) then mount as a 55x55mm brick. 600g is a lot of weight, but how heavy are peoples 6s lipos? 6. ok, so what would the screw be listed under? 2.6 thread, 2.8x8mm? its a simple parts just cannot find it anywhere (cause i dont know what im looking at!) 7. yeah school sucks. problem with me, is that the motor mount isnt up and down like briang's... which makes it impossible to mount the batteries on either sode. as this will be mainly a basher and a "just for fun" racer (cant earn any points cause i gotta run with the nitros... least there i can race with the C class first!!) i do like how he has made his battery trays and i might copy the design, but to hold 2x the weight, we will see... at school i have a mill (useless as we cant find the bits and its 50years old, works though, no one knows how to use it properly... also a sheet metal bender and an oxytorch to heat stuff up on. i dont have access to a dremel nor funds to buy one! (literally only got $90 left) really i just want to show the guys at the track (or rather try!) that electric can be compeditive and an average 16yo can build it (wont tell them that everyone here helped :D) then slowly (hopefully) they will join our side, and i wont have to wear ear protection every time i go to the track!! bloody nitro engines reving their guts out trying to get them going well. ryan :) |
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...06-08_1134.jpg
I have used random bearings to just prop it up, what woulkd be the easiest way to tell if it was level/balanced? measuring the depth accurately of the cut out it near impossible, cant get a ruler in there, and i dont think my digital calipers would work either... http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...06-08_1135.jpg http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...06-08_1131.jpg here you can see the plate ive removed: http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...ssembly013.jpg |
For the servo screw, something like this:
http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXE017&P=7 I think the easiest way to figure out if the center diff is straight is to spin it, and whichever combination of washers allow it to spin the longest will be the ones to go with. Otherwise, you might just need to eyeball it. 2. Just play around with shims vs. no shims, to try to get the best combination. Basically, you want the gears to be as tightly packed as possibly, but without any binding. 3. Geared properly, it won't overheat (assuming it's not defective). 4. Most people don't run more than 6s in buggies, because 4s is plenty. But just to give you an idea, my 4s 4800mah weighs about 500grams. I guess 600grams isn't that bad. |
thanks. ive got a question. what is the hyper 9.5?
tower stocks all their parts but to me its pretty close to an 8.5? also, are these the right gasket thingys? http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXCWN2&P=7 and they recon that these bearings (http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXTNY4&P=7) have 1/3 less friction than the stockers. would it be a worthwhile upgrade, or is it a waste of money? 1/3 seems quite a bit though, and my car (somereason) is far from smooth... is it normal for the CD bearings to not spin much/for long? like they dont seem to spin much but are smooth (and new), just seemed strange, like the oil was too thick or something in the bearings... also, ive just found this: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXDEN5&P=7 is that what im after, sometimes i just wish i could see it infront of me before buying them! o well... emailed mike, it would be awesome to have another side of the mount, which would match and provide extra support, but would the machining be accurate enough to eliminate any play, ideally the bearing would have to be forced into each side, but the mount i recieved is a tad loose, which makes getting it in and out simple, and with the plastic one clamping it down is solid... perhaps a clamping one would be the solution?? more cost though thanks MM for your advice so far :) |
9.5 actually refers to the Ofna 9.5 buggy:
http://ofna.com/manuals.html It's totally separate from the Hyper series. However, some minor parts like such as those for the differential are interchangeable (1/8 diffs are often interchangeable between different companies). In my personal opinion, ceramic bearings throughout the car are only worthwhile if you'll be getting into hardcore racing. You can get standard bearings for about $1 each, depending on the size: http://www.avidrc.com/shop/?action=i...=1&prevstart=0 Comparing the ceramic bearing kit to standard bearings, you can get three times more standard bearings for $90. Hoboa (manufacturer of the Hyper series) typically uses rubber shielded bearings. These last the longest of standard metal bearings, but also have the most friction. The bearings themselves won't spin freely, but when attached to the diff they should spin for a bit. If the bearings feel at all gritty then it's most likely time to replace them. Those screws are the exact ones that come with the servo, so you can bet they're the right thing. How much play is there between the center diff bearings and the mount? |
thanks! never ever heard of anoyone owning or using (even on youtube)a hyper 9.5 before!
my thoughts exactly on ceremics, i think my driving needs a lot more work first to make a difference!! the play is due to the slightly larger cutout for the bearing to allow for tollerances... makes a lot of sense when preoducing multiple. i dont see how id ever shim this (perhaps some tape???) but whether it be ok without it is another question. mike might make me the opposite half out of the same stuff, that way it will look awesome, but hopefully be much better balanced and be easier to boot. now... to figure out how to order from tower without a credit card... just gotta "borrow" dads :P |
Looking Good!!!!:yes:
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thanks guys, nothing spectacular at this point, im just running/have run out of money... lol
hopefully i wont screw anything up, and i can get it going within 3 weeks... its been a while but only starting to find the issues! still need to order some stuff of tower (to shim the diff) and get around to taking more pics of the issue ive got with the CD mount. all i need it to 1. shim it up (knowing me, badly) or 2, buy another hyper mount, and cut the motor bit off (ugly and not cheap) 3, get mike to mill out another matching mount, or 4, cut out the original alloy part to make the hyper mount sit flush, i might try this at school tomorrow, nothing to lose, if it doesnt work, i would have only got like 5 bucks on ebay for it. got the screw for the servo worked out, will order it along with the diff stuff. a few more questions: is HPI diff lube the same as most others? ive filled it with 50K but doesnt seem much thicker (though heaps stickier!!!) than hobao 9K stuff... any suggestions for shock oil (ive got most wts) and springs? which aint cheap, but i will look, perhaps use spacers first and see how it goes. glad someone is interested, but i find it hard to make much of an impression with all these other (more expensive) builds going on!! o well, least its a new one :) battery mounting is also causing me grief but ill let you guys figure that one out :D ryan :) |
Have you tried www.rchobbies.com.au for those shims etc. you require
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i would, but i cant find the ones i need? maybe im looking for the wrong thing... if you could find them, id order them, but i cant see them!!
thanks, ryan edit: http://www.rchobbies.com.au/store/pr...53576cae1278a0 would these work? they aint cheap! |
on your last picture, what's that aluminum piece where the diff goes?
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its bracing, but imo unnessary and pointless... :whistle:just makes adding a motor mount one bit trickier, because you have to take it out to fit the mount, which leaves the opposite side at the wrong height, and nothing for the rear brace to attach to!:diablo: any suggestions?:yes: im stuck and out of money... this project will have to wait a little longer i think |
I take it the motor mount you have is for the hyper 7. Could you just buy the hyper 7 centre diff mounts and use those to hold the diff instead of the 8 diff mounts?
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yeah im going to buy the mounts off a hyper 8 off a friend... occured to me after seeing kyosho's build :)
ebay it is, pitty ive already sold stuff of worth... who wants random screws for $500! lol. |
ok, i managed to get a complete hyper 8 diff new for $20 which included everything and a new spare (non leaking...) centre diff :)
so im happy and its now securely mounted. thanks for the suggestions :) also my motor STILL hasnt been shipped and castle doesnt knoew exactly whats going on... at least the monster max seems to be coming down the track fairly soon. ive also got stiffer springs and another body which will actaully fit this time on the way... o and i bought 2 lipos. premium power, suposedly with enderland cells, im not sure. soft case, 4700mah 20c. will these be enough to power the hungry 1512 2d ive ordered??? ive got a pinon of 12teeth which should be good with these packs. lighter than my a123 packs too. any suggestions? ive set myself the task of making plastic cushioned holders (hard cases) for them, which i will use and to make them the same dimensions as the a123 packs. :) ryan |
sweet, almost done huh?
im probably gonna get some 5s lipo(neuenergy) can't wait to see those hard cases BTW what body did you get? |
it will still be a while yet, dont you worry about that! they havent arrived yet (supposed to be dropped off here today) but when i get them i will post some ideas/pictures... they are 270g each though... 540g of batteries is quite a bit still!!
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another update! hoorah.
cut the servo plate (opted for the aluminium one over the pro fibre one as it was easier to cut), and sanded it down. recieved my motor today (1512 2D S) really nice a bit grubby but i cleaned it up nice. has a great green tinge to it, love it! absolutely no play in the shaft and easy to spin. BUT i also bought mikes neu end cover (updated version) and i cant figure out how its supposed to go on. there are the 3 wires, then a bit of plastic stuff (like fuel tubing almost) then a thick black rubber cover protruding 3-5mm from each wire... how on earth do i get this cover on! pic soon. any advice. also how does it stay there?? (i assume u force it over the plastic rubber bits and that holds it on. i also cut a bit of lexan and blocked up the front of the motor (yes im paranoid!) will these covers hurt temps or not really? i need help with battery placement guys! its too low to stack 2 sick packs of a123 under on the other side opposite to the motor, so i need some suggestions. i also thought about cutting off the centre screw mount thing on the skid plate (and gluing or something the middle of it down) then see if it will fit then... the other option is to mount it above the centre diff and make a brace above the rear brace... so im stuck... HELP!!! |
quick little update:
one of the a123 batteries refuses to charge up past 3.37 while the other cell charges properly to 3.7v... charger bleeds off voltage until i gave up after 3 or so hours... weird thing is, it has no less voltage drop or performance than the other pack when tested with the Watt meter in my touring car (which is now broken!) well it works! thanks to all who helped, much appreciated. but: i borrowed my friends Mamba Max (originally mine in my e-savage, sold it as a package, thinking id get a monster max 4 months ago :whistle:) and it ran great. but its SLOW :( only 47.2km/hr on a flat road with a 16t pinion... SO im going to sell the a123 batteries (as ive decided id like to try racing and i cant fit the batteries properly, as they just dont fit with the shell on ANYWHERE.... and with the money i get (used 3 or so times since new, should get close to $100) buy a zippy lipoly, as ive read nothing bad and just cannot afford to buy a neu (id rather buy one now, use it, it die in 4 or so months and buy again, than save for 4 months and buy a neu and risk ruining it...) also destroyed the esc in my touring car (go figure), one of the caps on the top just went poof just turning it on, when id used it for 1/2 an hr and just checked the temps (which were 5 or so above ambient! GRR) o well, thats life :) BUT ive got a quick decision. should i go with 4s and the 1512 2D with the 16t pinion, or should i get a 5s and gear down to a 13t (or so) pinion? (i have 13, 14 and 16). which setup would run the coolest? (would the reduced current draw of the 5s pack outweigh the increased motor temps from spinning faster!) (4s=37700K 5s= 45900K rpm unloaded) pack 1: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...6750140N-5.jpg 3 month warrenty, which is great, good 25C -35C rating... if that means anything with these, 4000mah (150x50x37, 581g) OR Pack 2: http://www.hobbycity.com/hobbycity/s...Y-R-4800-5.jpg 4800mah, 25(minimum?)-35C, 170x43x45mm, 636g now, i need to do 15-20 minute mains without thermalling or damaging anything... is this at ALL? realistic with either of these packs. also the 2nd one is $1 cheaper and is exactly the same dimensions as the new polyquest packs so im thinking these are either reject cells which are still good or excess with some other problem. i can live without spectaular performance, just something that works and keeps on working :) also they are heavy, and the question is, will they fit well under the cover? thanks guys. also, would the motor overheat without any cooling? (covered front/end + no holes in body) seemed to run cool (got a temp gun on the way, finally...) for the 10 minutes i had it going, (would start to burn your hand after 15 secs of holding it on the 14t pinion on dirt doing spins and stop start etc, trying to get it as hot as i could :) thanks again guys, ryan |
well finally the day has come when its alive and working...
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...touting004.jpg http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...touting001.jpg http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...touting003.jpg custom battery tray and acrylic top protector. still have to cover over those nucience nitro related holes! any tips?? hit the track and i need to learn to drive haha. stripped the plastic servo horn which is an easy fix, only put 1300mah into the pack after 10 mins of use - was afraid of using to much HAHA> next time ill go for 15-20 minutes - cutoff i set at 3.3v/cell. the zippy is .1v out of balance at most. 110+ amp spikes with 1200W peaks!! WOW> impressive :) very happy with it. and my esc is still working... |
I'd jus buy a new body, at any rate Please keep me posted on how she handles, I can only speak of nitro when I say this but, my Hyper 8.5 Pro buggy was one of the best handling buggy's I've ever run, and I've run just about all of em. Looks Good.
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well im not the greatest driver, decided to stick myself in with the lowest (C's) 1/8 nitro buggys and came 3rd once and 4th three times. not bad considering it was the first time on that track.
thenm plenty of people were having issues with their engines HAHAHA and left. by the time the final round came around we decided a 15 minute A and B buggy race would be fun (usually 6 minutes). i decided i may as well try and see if i could strech 15 minutes from it, and charged the battery once again. when i looked at the printout, i was starting in first place. then another electric guy was annoyed cause he couldnt race the 20minute A final let alone the 15 minute one, so when he was put into last place in the B final he wasnt happy. 45 minutes later, they sorted it out and thankfully my battery could finish charging!!! he was running a novak and his esc came off the track @ 75C, batteries were cheap ebay ones, and were 58C and his motor with aftermarket heatsinks (plural) and fans (plural) were at 75C after a 6 minute race. haha he managed to thermal it in the last qualifier 5 minutes in. in the shade under a shelter shed/open garage it was 33C and in the sun it was over 50C. with a nice gentle breeze cooling us off. anyway, the buggy performed reasonably well, i was running a 13t/46 combo and never really hit top speed. loved it how i overtook the vspecs and navarossis down the straight!! (they were not impressed :P) after 6 minutes i came in to check motor temp, and it was hot but still within spec so i kept going. 2 laps later (long track, record is 48 seconds, i was running 55's) i came in and it was only a few degrees hotter (66C) so i took it out again, next temp was 76C!!!*%$( i let it rest for 20 seconds then took off again, took it a bit easy around the track but not exactly slow! came in again and it was 65C? weird. anyway i was a bit comfused but continued racing and the temp after that was 68C. so i finished the race and it was at 65C. can anyone expain this fluctuation in temps, and yes they are HOT but how can i fix it? i driled out holes and cut the side window and folded it out to create a scoop thingy. im pretty confident it didnt go over 80C = 176F which is top of recommended temp range, and 200 (93C) is max before damage right? i will drop down to a 12t and see if that makes a difference. im probably on 1/4 -1/3 thottle the entire way around the track and WOT down the straight. When driving around my place in 20 minutes (in the shade though?) it never got above 145F (which is good) the only difference is that im ALWAYS (90% of the time) on the throttle, whereas in my yard its lots of juice then coast then juice then coast) probably a 50% duty cycle.... any suggestions? i was running (as an experiment) 3-30-5 in the diffs (F-C-R) and it was suprisingly good, i need more steering on power though. ( at slower speeds) long post!! |
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