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Savage 21 BL Conversion - From The Beginning...Advice Appreciated =)
Hi all, been a long time since a posted substantially in here! =)
After recently scoring a free savage 21 (from what i can tell?) I've made an order with mike for some parts to start on the conversion... I wanna build this to be a tough as nails, ballsy, bash capable machine =) To make life simple (and not so harsh on my wallet at the same time!), i wanna run the same electrics i run in my LST... Motor - Lehner 2230 11t ESC - MGM-Compro 160-24 (i have an 80-18 car/boat, but fear it wouldn't be enough? - thoughts?) Batts - 18x GP3700 packs (3x 6-cell packs in series) I wanna keep the mech brakes, and utilise the reverse module too... I'm in need of advice with regards to gearing and drivetrain parts, as this is gonna be my first savage! =) From what i can tell, there are many options to take, and most things i've read, people don't really say why they're doing what they do... With the spider gears - you can have like, 4/6 and 8 gears right? what's the difference in strength between em all? Also wondering about the 3-speed? Found one NIB and assembled for 80 bux on ebay... Does it require a whole new case, or is it still gonna be compatible with what i have? Now... to the parts i have on the way... From Mike... *x1 FLM Tranny Forward Brushless Conversion *x2 FLM Hybrid Bulkhead *x2 FLM CNC Shock Towers *x2 FLM LST Shock Conversion *x1 FLM Steering Drag Link *x1 MGM usbCom+ From elsewhere... *x1 Integy MSR6 LST Silver Piggyback Shocks *x1 RD Logics 23mm Hex Hub Extender w22mm Nut I've ordered the "FLM Hybrid Bulkhead" but do you guys know if this part replaces the "FLM CNC Machined Savage Diff Cup"? I'm assuming so... I was also looking at the FLM extended arm conversion, but wouldn't mind the uppers to be adjustable? Anyone know if the conversion includes adjustable uppers, or if it's possible to get them? I see the ones on rc-monster, but are they the same as stock, or are they extended? Thanks for your help guys, i really need it... i'm not ashamed to admit it -lol- I tried on my own first and was just gonna post it up finished out of the blue, but figured i'd be best doing it once -lol- Cheers =) -daniel |
oops - i forgot, i have pics of the sav as it is =)
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...on/Stock01.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...on/Stock02.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...on/Stock03.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...on/Stock04.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...on/Stock09.jpg |
awe man, everything looks good except when i seen the word INTEGY. I have a thread somewhere when i built a FLM, INTEGY savage. Needless to say there is not a single INTEGY part on it now. Don't waste your money, them shocks shafts will bend like butter. I was warned too and didn't listen now i wish i would have.
Now for your questions - uppers are adjustable and makes the truck very very very stable becasue the kit is wide. The drive shafts are also very tuff and have a great warranty. (it breaks you get a new one) The bulk heads do NOT replace your diff cup, you will still need the alloy ones (i rec. the HPI ones, have work fine for me) Gearing run the stock spur with a rc-monster mod1 16 tooth pinion. And as far as the 3 speed it depends on how you want to go. I personally locked mine in second so i could use motor brakes and reduce stress on the bec and no extra servo weight (not that it weighed a lot just a simpler setup, less to go wrong) I suggest you just lock yours as well. will actually having it shift you may run the risk of the tranny blowing apart from all the force of BL. Besides with that gearing 2nd is plenty fast enough, seriously it is quick, too quick for a track. Hope that helped and good luck. |
Hey man, thanks for your help, much appreciated!
spewbags bout the piggybacks... i only bought em cause i've always loved the look of em, but guess i was dumb enough to not do the research -lol- Do you guys know if the Losi TiNi Shock Shafts will fit the Integy shocks?? Maybe i could get away with em then? =) It looks like you've swayed me to lock it up in 2nd tho =) Speed is not a main concern - as long as i'm, as you put it, 'too quick for a track' - then that's exactly what i'm after =D How many spider gears for my diffs should i be looking at? I've been thinking of going for 6, but does the count of these affect driving at all, or just add strength with the more gears in there you have? (eg - 4spider= strong - 6spider= strongER - 8spider= strongEST???) Is HPI the only company to make these spider gears? Sorry for all the q's hey guys, but the savage is brand spankin for me -lol- |
IIRC the stock HPI shafts will fit in the MRs6 but that is the only one. I know it fits one integy shock but not sure what one exactly. Just go with the stock diff gears and get the alloy cups to put em in and you should be fine. I have yet to blow a diff and i am very hard on my stuff. Just make sure you shim them correctly. I am going to a meet this weekend and will hopefully get some good footage of the truck in action.
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ooo nice to hear =) I had always assumed the diffs needed heaps of bulking up, as the local guys i used to know would always be talking bout it -lol- now - this shimming business... When you say shim the diffs - is this just shimming the crown gear from the center driveshaft, or is there a bit more to it than that?? I havent really looked this one up yet, but have heard plenty bout it through searching other things... btw... been looking at two of these instead of just getting the diff cases? i assume this would cover the diff case problem? =) "ALLOY GEAR/CASE DIFF SET 43T (ASSEMBLED)" http://www.hpieurope.com/graphics/pa...6/86826_02.jpg http://www.hpieurope.com/piw.php?lang=en&partNo=86826 thanks again for all your help mate =) |
Not sure if the losi TiNi will fit or not. Get the diff you pictured and the bulk heads by flm and you will be fine. Now the shimming is just pressing the crown gear tightly to the center diff gear. As long as there is no slop you should be fine and the diffs will last a good amount of time. The most important thing is shimming. Most people just throw the diffs in and call it good and with nitro it is ok but still not good. With BL it will shred the gears if not shimmed correctly.
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Maybe i'll try the losi shafts or do a bit of a search another time... (have the girlfriend here this weekend... she's a flight attendant =D)
Thanks for the advice on the shimming mate - will make sure to organise that - do you have a link to a place that sells the shim kit i need, and an SS hex head screw kit? =) for now tho - i picked up the last diff one of the LHS had in stock - was a bonus, as i won a drift comp a short while back, and scored a 50 dollar gift voucher, so it really only costed me $22! =) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...on/Parts01.jpg |
I think the whole alloy diff case thing is to prevent the outer diff case flexing when the diff loads up - usually resulting a breaking a tooth or two off the diff pinion. So not alloy diff cup, but the out case (or the whole bulkhead for the newwer savage style)
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i have been thinking that since i was looking at the part in my hands on the way home this arvo -lmao- is all good - least it's something that i'll never need to worry about -lol-
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OK... an update =)
Got most of the front end completed, with a few adjustments and things to change round etc, but need some more help, as it seems i have a fair few left over pieces... i seen another thread with the same problem - only he had way less left over bits than i did -lol- Anyways - pics explain it all i think... with the first one - i need help with the RED/BLUE & BLACK text/boxes please - OH and the last picture has me STUMPED!! thanks guys! http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis01.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis02.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis03.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis04.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis05.jpg |
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I'm pretty sure your battery stop is a rear motor support. In my revo mount I got two that looked like that. One for regular 36mm can, and another for (what I assume is) 40mm neu can.
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-lmao- OF COURSE!!! mannn - i been smokin wayyy too much lately -lol- thanks man =) i just needed your post to kick my brain into 1st gear -lol-
It's a spare mount - it replaces the current one for use with larger motors... why didn't i think of that?? -lol- i never noticed the difference in curve on it, and just assumed it had to go somewhere else... i thought rear motor mount support - but then there's nowhere for it to fit -lol- pics tell the story =) Thanks Sammus!! http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis11.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis12.jpg |
Just some side by side shots with the old chassis...
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis13.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis14.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis15.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis16.jpg |
I have it pretty much built =) i have a few other bits and pieces i wanna add to it to finalise things, but i have holidays in the next month, so will wait til i get back to start breaking the bank again -lol-
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis17.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis19.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis20.jpg Things to come (off the top of my head) 4 bevel gear diffs Hardened output cups all round Alum tranny case Alum steering assembly FLM Extended Arm Set 3 Speed to play round with (on the way) big joes on 23mm cheyennes (on the way) Will prolly look into some axial or maximiser beadlocks or something and maybe try out the XL Terra Pins New bearings all round Lipos RC Raven progressive LST springs thats all i can think of for now - bed time! night night =) |
man that motor is dwarfed in there. That 22 series u had a pic of before though would look nice in there :P
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-lol- i know, it looks tiny hehehe I need to find an adaptor or something so i can mount it up tho....
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13830 any ideas man? =) |
At RCX here in SoCal I saw that Mike had a 2230 mounted in his Losi 8t, and he did make some adapter plate for it. So it's been done, and he's done it, don't see why he can't do it again! :yes:
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Here's a couple videos of a 2230 in a savage: Powerful! :gasp:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_VWhdE4HRk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEXWxgiJHXI |
Cheers for the advice man, i've emailed mike, so it's all just a waiting game =)
thanks for the video too man, can't wait to get it all running - that things has some serious balls - i cant believe he flipped that thing ON THE GROUND!!! =) |
Can't wait to see it finished. I remember seeing a thread about the FLM center skid being too long on the older savages- was there any modifications you had to do or additional parts you had to buy?
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holy crap, i have been wondering why that happened! -lol-
I actually have it mounted the same way as normal - although, as it sits in the last picture - you can see the bottom FLM skid running along the bottom of the chassis... it doesn't tuck under the front and rear skids how it is supposed to i dont think... It's flush - but flush with the opposite side of the FLM skid that it's supposed to be........ screw this trying to explain it with text thing - my brain can't get around such a task -lol- I'll get some pics up for you tonight, as i have to get going to work now =) I reckon it could be easily modded to fit - i just didn't have time to look into it yet =) |
That was a major turn from trash to flash.
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Here's some shots of the problems and how i fixed em with regards to the centre skid issue - most of it is pretty self explanatory =) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis34.jpg This is how i had it mounted at first... i just used some small spacers so i didn't bend it TOO much - pretty dodgey i know - but i fixed it good now hehehe http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis35.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis36.jpg Pretty easy and quick fix to make - just mount it lightly so it sits in place - score it with a blade - take it off and cut it - put it back on, and all is nice and flush =) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis37.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis38.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis39.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis40.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis41.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis42.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis43.jpg |
I got a lil bit done with the rx mount too... just screwed a 6mm piece of material i had laying round - forget what it's called, but it's probably less than a gram in weight and strong as - i can barely bend it with my hands, but it dents easily - wierd stuff...
anyways - i screwed it through using the screws and countersunk head washers FLM gave me for the brake servo, and used the Savage Shock Spacers that came with the FLM shock towers, and it fits perfect =) No binding on the steering arms or anything... some pics =) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis47.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis48.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis49.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...MChassis50.jpg This is gonna be the neatest truck you've ever seen when it's totally completed =) |
I have heard the center plates dont fit right. It is odd though because mine never had a problem. Fits perfectly. Oh well easy fix for you ic though.
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What version savage did ya start with man? =)
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Figure i should update this thread - it's been a while hehehe - it's slowly coming together - but between me trying to save for a house now, xmas and a couple family bdays coming up, and the aussie dollar being so shyte lately - money is kinda hard to come by lately - but it WILL be finished some time soon! -lol-
Clearly dont need everything on the list below to get it running, but things left on my checklist for this truck that i can think of now are as follows.... *ESC - TBA - MGM Compro 160-25 - possibly lucianos depending on mounting possibilities... depends on lipos below... *Motor Mount adaptor for Lehner 2230 - On its way now *Lipos - Not REAL sure yet - will be 6 or 8S - 6S clearly an easier fit and much nicer on my pocket tho... Most likely Poly RC 6S 6000mah 25C packs *HPI One Piece Rear Hubs *HPI Front Knuckles/Hubs *Steel Spur combos *RC4WD Alum Rockstar beadies w/Imex 44 series treads *Lunsford Hingepins - on the way now *HD Axles And i THINK thats it... OH! I have a 3speed tranny here too, so may get those bright red dual fibre disc brakes for that tranny if i ever feel the need to swap it out for the 3speed/mech brakes - i'll have to figure out if the alloy tranny box fits the 3speed, and maybe get another one of them too hehehe =) I have a spare 7955tg here aswell, but may save that for the lst's steering duties =) Got some old shots of the screw kit i got that i never got round to uploading... it's a crapload smaller than i kinda thought it was gonna be... for some reason i had in my mind it was gonna be a fair amount bigger than this!! http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...ScrewKit01.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...ScrewKit02.jpg FLM Arm kit arrived friday night =) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...edArmKit01.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...edArmKit02.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...edArmKit03.jpg |
Changed the towel on my work table as you will see :D .........
But i just realised the thread hanging out of the top ext arm is wobbly, causing some play at the hubs.... any advice on that?? http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...tProblem10.jpg Made me a new stand for the truck - used PVC pipe/t-pieces and some dense-ish foam that i wrapped round the posts and taped with black cloth tape =) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...ageStand01.jpg Still got a bit to go, but it's looking more and more 'whole' as time slowly passes... and i mean it when i say slowly! -lol- http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...20There/04.jpg Rear http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...20There/05.jpg Rear http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...20There/06.jpg |
You can see where i replaced the single tabs with 'full length' tvp braces(forget the name?) in this shot - look for the larger 4mm screws in the chassis' deck, one is covered by the esc mount - had to countersink the holes a lil tho =)
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...20There/07.jpg Front birds-eye http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...20There/08.jpg I got a real clean/spoofy/bling idea for hiding all the wiring too - not spilling anything on that tho - you'll see when it gets done =) (not that it's all that intriguing -lol-) But you can see the power wires for the bec already kinda tucked away sorta under the tranny kinda in the bottom left, so you can see where it's all headed... i have every wire planned out hehehe - not thAT THINGS HAVE BEEN GOING TO PLAN LATELY - BUT IT ALL WILL WORK OUT IN THE END HEHEHE Bloody caps lock - not going back to redo that hey, sorry http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...20There/09.jpg Anyways - hope you enjoy - please let me know if you can spot anything wrong/potential issues etc etc or just have some good advice, would be appreciated =) cheers guys - will update again when i have more =) |
wow nice savage!
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Thanks man, i'm seriously wetting my pants waiting to be able to finish it tho! -lol-
ok - just a small update - just been lazy uploading etc, which btw, i have to get a full shot of the truck now with the shocks and all built up (i actually have the motor adaptor in my hands as of today too, so will be able to get some 'motor mounted' shots soon :D) anyways - the shocks... Integy Piggybacks for the LST Kinda mixed... some good and some bad... but after initially being pretty unimpressed with these shocks (problems solved as you'll see further on), i'm thinking they should hold up and perform just fine =) Compared to a stock shock... ...(comparing to the stiffer 'Yellow' Losi Springs) the red springs that Integy supply are slightly thinner than the Yellow Losi springs, and they are also (from memory) around 10mm shorter aswell! ...the body appears to be longer on the Integy shocks... you can see in the picture below - the bottom of the shock body, and the start of the thread on the Shock Shaft, are lined up exact on both the Integy and Stock LST shocks, but as you can see, the top mounting hole is clearly out of line ...the shafts are maybe 1-2mm thicker on the Integy shocks, and they feel a bit firmer - but wont know for sure untill i get it running =) ...the Shock or Rod Ends are pure junk on the Integy shocks - they're too small and WAY too brittle, and when i put the stock LST Ends next to the Integy ones, i knew straight away which ones i was gonna be running - pretty clear to see in the pic - sorry, they're jumbled, but the shock on the RIGHT has the INTEGY Ends and the LEFT shock has the STOCK LST End =) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...gybacks/01.jpg The holes in the pistons clearly needed to be drilled out larger - compression was stiff as even with 20wt oil and no springs! here's a before... http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...gybacks/03.jpg OOPS!! maybe went a little too large to start with, considering i plan on strictly using the truck as a basher -lmao- Would suit racing perfectly tho with the stiffer Losi yellow springs (as i have on the truck right now) - forget what size drill i used, but clearly needed the next size down hehehe http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...gybacks/04.jpg Might need to look into some new pistons before i go jumping it too hard, but other than that it's all going well so far - i'll be back with another update shortly - just some pics of the motor adaptors i got and the truck with the 2230 and shocks mounted up, but for now, i'm ghost =) |
nice updates man. looking great..... where did you get the alloy gearbox and how much. I found a couple but they were all made by cheap companies and were really pricey. I cant help on the LST shocks because i run the stock hpi alloy (2 on each wheel). Never have a problem with the jumping. You will also love them ext arms by flm. tough as nails and sets such a wide track and is very very stable.
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cheers for the comment man =)
I got the alloy box at RC-Mall.net, and it was only USD$89.90!! I had seen a couple places wanting up around USD$180+!!!! -lol- Comes in purple/blue and silver =) http://www.rc-mall.net/acc.php?brand...8&type=gpm_sav They state something wierd in the FAQ, that makes you think they're located in Italy, but the package actually came from Hong Kong... I should metion that i had a problem with my order tho... it didn't arrive for 2 weeks (was sposed to be expressed), and when i emailed em about it - the bloke told me it had been sent back to them... Funny they didn't think to notify me of this mishap, and lucky i got onto em about it - After reaming the fella's ass out, and giving them the guilts about this tho, the service was awesome, and i had my package in 3 days -lol- |
I got too very stiff Losi shocks, i have filled them with 500 oil, very liquid stuff... But if i let the car fall on the floor: PLOFFF....
So i'm gonna make the pistonholes too more open because for off-road is sucks with very stiff shocks. On-road it will be VERY good. But i got for that stiff springs:) Greetz, Joram |
Very nice. You might want to fix all that toe-in for the front wheels though.
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Drilling those pistons was the best thing i could have done for those shocks hey - i had a slightly smaller drill around, but i'm impatient, and couldn't find it, so went with what was on hand -lol- I'm thinking i might move up to 35 or 40wt oil, and grab some of the RC Raven progressive springs for these, as i plan on giving it a good kick up the arse on some big jumps i found about 20 minutes away from my house =)
Thanks for the comment mate =D The front has heaps of toe-in cause there are no shocks mounted in the pics, so the arms are hanging a bit lower than normal, but i'm still yet to play with that also =) I've run into a small problem with one of my FLM upper arms tho... ok it's bigger than a small problem hehehe As i was locking the 2 nuts to the outer section of the arm (to stop the play it has there), it appears i tightened them down way too much and didn't realise it, because I've managed to twist the thread so much inside the outer end that it snapped the thread itself! -lol- will get some pics up soon that will explain much better than my words - been a bit hard to find any time to do anything tho lately, have heaps going on here atm... ***EDIT*** This is what i was shooting for.... http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...0Kit/Oops2.jpg Unfortunately, this is what i ended up with... http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...0Kit/Oops3.jpg Dunno how good your eyes are - but this is inside the outer arm... http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...0Kit/Oops4.jpg You can see how it bevels down into ½ the thickness of the threaded rod inside the end of the outer arm... http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...20Kit/Oops.jpg I've also got the 2230 mounted up too, but only a few 'whole truck' shots before i snapped the arm -lol- Uploading em now - there's like - 18 pictures - mostly useless, but gonna add em in here anyway, simply cause i can -lol- Will post back soon =) |
Here's the RCM motor adaptor i received from Mike so i could mount up the 2230...
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/08.jpg I had to drill out and countersink the 6 holes in the plate, so i could get the screws through, but no big drama, and was a 2 minute fix - just wish i had a dril press sometimes though =) http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/09.jpg Side shot with the adaptor plate mounted to the 2230... http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/10.jpg The following couple shots are just different angles when mounted to the FLM motor mount - FLM include 2x Rear Motor Supports - 1 for a standard 540 dia. can, and another for... the next one up, or the 22series - what size is it? 720 or something? http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/11.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/12.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/13.jpg |
That's an RCM 20T Pinion in case you are wondering =)
http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/14.jpg http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/15.jpg View from the front end of the truck... http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/16.jpg View from the Right side of the truck... http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/17.jpg Birds-eye view - General http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/b...Mounted/18.jpg |
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