My Brushless Muggy Project : input please :)
 

Hello Everyone,

This is my first time posting here but i have been lurking in the shadow for a long time :) . Looks like you guys talk alot of bussiness and leave the drama behind.... My kind of forum. My name is Heath I go by The Cow on many RC forums. I will apologize for the ridulously long post i tend to be the king of useless information :lol:
It seems there is alot of experience here on this subject so I hope to benefit from some of your knowledge if you guys could be so kind :yes: I have a few questions if you don’t mind In reference to the conversion I am putting together…. and let me know if I am on the right track or there is a better track (set up) in relation to my goals… THANKS!! :mdr: I have read every muggy post here :) Bl and most all even on the nitro....
Although I am a newcomer to 1/8 BL conversions I am no newcomer to r/c or fabrication. ;) I am looking to build a durable…. Lightweight roller for a MUGGY, of course (electronics will be heavy) It is already paid for and a week or two away! I am only a parking lot basher…. This veh will rarely see off road anything more then some grass nothing to dirty... I know i am a chick :lol:. I will be fabricating my own 8-10mm 2mm weave carbon fiber chassis, separate center support brace, and all servo-battery hold downs etc unless the one i show below is more feasible although there is alot of weight to be saved there IMO ( i know it is a killer chassis regardless :wink: ) I will not be happy with less than 55mph minimum when lightly geared and running cool as could be! I mean cool electronics through the whole run being used.... actually I would like to be able to run multiple packs with out hesitation or much of a cool down as I do not expect to get long runtimes with this set up… 15-20 minutes or so? However I would like the ability to gear up for some crazy 60+ maybe 65mph+ runs if I want to watch the heat issues and deal with cool down periods… While I do not want to throw away cash on useless stuff I will not be looking to skimp or cut corners to save money…. A little too much is always just right in my book :smile:
While nothing is set in stone ( i have only purchased the muggy) this is what I am thinking rite now.


Here is what I am thinking as of now….



Setup #1. This is my preferred idea I know it will Have violent torque although I am wondering if I will get the speeds I desire and stay cool at the same time…



1. NUE 1521/1.5D I know this will fit on the rc-monster mount I plan to use but can I fit the finned version?

2. Mamba monster – I believe the bugs are just about gone and I just love the software….would be hard to convince me on any other esc

3. Flightpower evo30 4500mah 6s or evo25 4900mah 6s Do you think it pays to go for the evo 30… I would think it would equal a cooler system although less runtime just not sure if its necessary



Setup #2 I like this too and it gives me the option to move up to 6s although I feel this may be too hot of a setup on 6s and I question the durability of the electronics and veh at over 60,000 rpm L



NUE 1521/1D assuming I can fit a finned version….
Mamba monster
Flightpower evo30 or 4500mah or evo 25 4900mah 5s or possibly 6s just not to confident this will be a reliable trouble free setup all those kv's


I look foward to your input :yipi:

Heath Meschkow

I have doubts the MMM can put out enough power to get you to that speed. Maybe, but so far it hasn't proven anythign yet. You'll need at least 3000W I would think for that huge truck, maybe more depending on tires. That's at least 150A on 6s, if not looking closer to 200A.

I thought the monster was 200a... I could be wrong for sure however but i thought i read that on a post here... What would be a more amp happy Esc in your opinion?

Thanks for the input my friend :)

Heath

i will post some of the running gear and tires etc....

thanks!

NUE 1521/1.5 d - If it will fit, i would like it to be finned - 1900kv - 60k max - 31v max - 21.8 oz - 4" long - 2250w con. - 4500x max :)

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...ow/nue1521.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...motormount.jpg

MAMBA monster esc - 6cell - 25v - switching bec - I may be wrong but these are 200a cont!! :)

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...kow/mm-esc.png

FLIGHTPOWER Evo30premium - 4500mah - 6s - 30c 135amp cont - 60c 270amp max!! :)

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...6s222vlipo.jpg

With a rc-monster mount I have seen a few threads where the smoot can fits easily with room to spare! I am hoping the finned 1521 should fit np problem. 1.0 Mod pinions, 6.5 bullets, This I hope will be beyond overkill and I will be blessed with not just wheelie capable torque but rather muggy in air backflipping torque :)

and some more.....


jdepending on the cost effectiveness of making a 8-10mm carbon fiber chassis I may do so or i may go with this

Innovative T6 aluminum 4mm chassis black anodized chassis

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...assisblack.jpg

I plan to keep the suspension stock besides a few upgades... I love rpm... Diregard the blue arms I will have black.

RPM- black LST a-arm Adapter Kit and adjustable camber a-arms for the Losi LST2 & Muggy

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...adapterkit.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...camberarms.jpg

Now with the riduculouse hex stripping torque I will have I figure I will need some reel kex hubs so why not go right to the big daddies :)

PRO LINE 23mm blue hd hex

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...ine23mmhex.jpg

I will need the lightes wheels-Tire combo i can find... these seem to be lightest plastic wheels since I cant find foams in this size.... 4.2" + Does anyone know if 4"+ foams are even made? These look ok but
I need to stop into my lhs as they carry the hpi stuff and they have a few nice otions if they are lightweight that i will consider as well.

PRO LINE white Wabash 40 Series 23mm HD

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...ies23mmhex.jpg

of-course low profile street tires and moulded lp inserts

PRO LINE road rage 40 series and moulded lp inserts

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...eriestires.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...ldedinsert.jpg

Let me know what you all think.... I cant wait... Few short weeks and i will have something to start tinkering with :)

Heath

I don't use RCM mount (made my own) but the finned can fits with even the smallest pinions (10t), The rcm mount should do the same.

You will certainly need a 1521, I would steer clear of the 1D though (amp hog), The 1.5D or 1Y (my preference) would be better IMO. I think satttheman was getting about 60mph with the 1Y.

I too would be unsure the MMM would be the controller to use, still running the cr@p out of mine to see if it holds up. I really like my MGM, still trying to see if the MMM is enough to replace it. MGM has some new models coming out with some more features and 250 - 280 amp power handling.

If going for speed, I would certainly go for the evo 30 batts.

Innovative_RC chassis is one stout chassis, I love mine.

Haven't had any need for the rpm arms; still have not broken a stock one yet.

The Muggy has 20mm hexes which are fine, but limit you to losi wheels. I also have the 23mm adapters for 40 series wheels/tires. Not too sure how the 40 series road rages are; I never liked the 2.2 or buggy size as they balooned like crazy. I also use 17mm hexes for HPI phaltline wheels/tires, and they work without any problems/stripping. You may want to go with the phaltlines if just running mainly on road, but do not get the pre-glued ones (HPI does cr@p glue job).

OH, and welcome to the forums!

Well.. they won't say. Just "more then you can handle". Strange saying that when they visit RCM so often. If anyone can overpower it we can. :)

All I'm saying is that its a bit of an unknown. The things are barely out and working, plus that's a lot of power to ask of a 6S and stay cool no matter what. Really a HV setup is called for, but a 6S/mmm 1521 may do it. I wouldn't promise it tho.

I've got a nitro Muggy, and its a pig, esp if you want to keep the 40s. Great truck so far, but 60+ is a heck of a goal for that truck. There was a dude that had a 70+mph 17lbs XTM mammoth. It can be done, but I know his was a HV 1521 and tons and tons of watts. Google may help you here.

Great news.... I could make one but the rc-monster looks nice... as long as it is good stock a mount is a mount:wink:

Awesome looks like i am on the right trail.... do you know if he was running 5 or 6s ? was there any heat issues? run times? :yes:

Thats a bummer... i love the cc software but if itt cant do it then it cant do it... WHat would you say the options are? aprox prices? links? sorry for the million questions :oops:

Evo 30 It is :wink:

Linkie for the phlatlines? :intello:

Thanks for taking the time to share!!! :yes: much appreciated....

THanks for the welcome too!

Heath

I have a converted muggy with 2.5d and mmm. The tires came out to be a tad over 4lbs and was causing some heat issues.

proline 23mm wheels and tires come in at about 10oz each.

I just order some 17mm prolines with dirtbuster tires for mine. (yes i know its now a truggy) LOL

Yeah, they were not ready yet when I did mine, they are nice mounts.


I believe he was running 6s (I would go 6s minimum), check his thread here



Well the new MGM's have nearly everything the MMM has(and some it doesn't). http://mgm-compro.com for info, should be in the RC-Monster store soon though.



Tires and Wheels

Thank you! much appreciated.... Off to check the links

Heath

This looks about rite correct? have you ever used thier software? how does it compare to the cc... From the other post looks like i am on piont for my goals just need to address the ESc. If i go with the EVO30's and the 1521/1.5d this is alot more KV and he was doing 57 on 5cell..... Do you agree it would be best to over motor and esc and then detune through the software in hopes of keeping the sytem working easy while performing?

Thanks again for the input my friends :smile:

Heath




TMM 16025-3 Car / Boat Z-SERIES

Technical data Show DetailsHide Details
Controller for motors brushless
Reversible controller

Number of Li-Ion, Li-Pol feeding cells 2 - 6
Number of NiCd, NiMh feeding cells 6 - 18
Number of A123 feeding cells 3 -7
Compatible with any feeding cells
Operating voltage 6 - 25.5 V
Max. continuous current (for full throttle) 160 A
Max. peak current (peak 5 sec.) 200 A
Version BEC / Switching BEC / OPTO Switching BEC
BEC voltage 5 / 6 V
Max. BEC current at 25 °C 6 A
BEC short circuit protection
Number of regulation steps 1024
PWM frequency 8/16/32 kHz
On-state switch (FETs) resistance at 25 °C 2 × 0.35 m

Dimensions 50×31×17 mm 1.97×1.22×0.67 in
Dimensions with external capacitor 65×31×17 mm 2.56×1.22×0.67 in
Weight without power conductors 45 g 1.447 oz
Weight incl. all conductors 71 g 2.283 oz
Power conductors cross-section to batt. / to mot. 6/4 mm2 0.0093 in2
Length of the power conductors 110 mm 4.331 in
Servocable cross-section 0.25 mm2 0.0004 in2
Length of the servocable 190 mm 7.480 in

Design possibilities:
Possibility of design with external heatsinks
Possibility of design with water-cooled heatsinks
Possibility of design with external heatsinks + FAN
Possibility of "hydro" version
Possibility of design with switch (connected safely)

Programming and PC Cooperation Features:
Software updates available through internet
Programming using PC
Universal programming card
Programming using throttle stick
Reading-out of data from the controller using PC
Cooperates with Black Box (data logger)
ICS connector - communication with PC without manipulation with servocable

The MGM software is not bad, it even gives you a readout of rpm, amps, volts, and max temp after a run.

I would just adjust your speed with gearing, and you can use the punch (on MMM) or accel time (MGM) to tame things down a bit.

hey buddy pay careful attention to my posts, as they'll let you know what NOT to do. :whistle:

The finned can 1521 will fit just fine, and is probably the way to go. I wanted my muggy to go 60+ also, that was until I realized just how fast that is, and how hard it is to keep the front wheels on the ground! Also, get LOTS of tire glue!!! You WILL need it! Can't say much about controllers, as the MMM is all I know, but Zippy batteries are supposed to be real good anc cheap too. FORGET the Road Rages for street use; they're WAAAAYYY too soft. You'll shred them up very quickly. Unfortunately, your only choice for street tires with this setup is really the HPI phaltlines, but as bdebde said, DO NOT(!!!!) buy the pre glued version!!!! Glue them yourself, and make sure you do a VERY VERY VERY good job!!! Also, I would avoid the chrome next time, because it just flakes off, and then they look very ugly.

Also, I bought the XTM 40 series wheels to mount dirt tires on, because they're the only other 17mm hub 40 series wheel, making it easy to use the hpi phaltlines for street. DO NOT buy these pieces of crap; I completely destroyed one the other day!! I have NEVER in all my years in this hobby, destroyed a rim. Just get used to changing hexes too.

BTW, I sure do love my muggy!! IMO, it's the perfect RC platform, though others may disagree.

I hear the 30c enerland cells (flightpower, polyquest, etc....) are not as good as the 25c cells.

I would go in a123, by 6-7S it should be enough, especially in 2p setup.

Thanks guys for all the input!! :wink: Much appreciated

Do you think the MGM TMM 16025-3 Car / Boat Z-SERIES
is adequate? I am thinking it should be a little more then neccassary so it should not have to work to hard and hot..... I am looking for a cool setup :yes: You guys agree? It is 165a cont 200a peak 5sec....

My eyes are glued :wink:I like the proline wheels but I would highly prefer the wabash 23mm... Do you know if the phaltlines will fit them... I think they look great and from the feedback are the must use option... I want to keep each corner under 3/4lb so there is not much rotational mass (sure to help keeping things cool) I am wondering... Is there a way to strip the crome of of the HPI if the phaltlines wont fit the 40 series 23mm.... Then i could dye them and help ensure a good bond :intello:Chrome is out for me..j

Any more info as to why or for what reasons?

I do like the performance of the a123.... They can feed a hungry system, but the size-weight-fittment worries me in the muggy.... Weight is of the utmost importance to me (also key to cool in my head :wink:) and i dont see them working best for me although i am new to the big stuff so i cant speak from experience or seeing it, only from size and weight references

I really appreciate all the good input and be able to soundboard the ideas of you guys :yipi:

Heath

I'm not sure, but I know that I was going to buy some polyquest, and most said to go with the 25c packs. Apparently the specs are not overrated at all on the 25c, and they fibbed slightly with the 30c, so they have 8awg wires on the 30c.
EDIT: found the thread
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...oly+huge+wires

The 16025 should be enough, but I would probably get the 28025 or 25035 (for more voltage in the future) just because I like overkill.

As far as rims for the phaltlines, they make 2 styles "blast" and "tremor" available in chrome as well as black and white I believe. The phaltlines are a bigger inside diameter than 40 series IIRC, so I doubt you could use them on 40 series wheels. You will need 17mm hexes to run those HPI wheels as well.

i was told told by a CC tech that they personally liked the 25 evos over the 30s he said the the 25c put out 25c all the time while the 30c had to be "up to temperature" to put out 30c he said they didnt like this and would recomend the 25c over the 30c unless somehting changes.

hey cow, the phaltline wheels come in white, black and chrome, so if you're gonna dye them, go with white. HOWEVER, the phaltline tires are a proprietary size! Only the HPI phaltline wheels (tremor and blast) will fit the phaltline tires. But as I said before, for a street tire for a high speed BL monster, they are your only choice. That's why I was saying it's a pain in the butt to have these for street with 17mm hex, and then have to swap your hexes for dirt use with a real 40 series tire/wheel combo. But remember, avoid the XTM 40 series wheels with 17mm hexes, unless you like to have busted wheels!

Thanks for all the great info guys! Looks like it is hpi tremor and blasts in white with the phaltline tires.... I will have to live with the 17mm hexes untill someone makes something in 23. I got a tracking numbe ron my baby :) She lands monday so the breakdown is soon to begin!

I'll make sure to post pics

Heath

I just want to get some feedback on something i am wondering. I am thinking this.... Since i plan to go to one apropriatly sized servo i would have the room on either side for the battery... I am thinking, just an idea i could mount the motor a litle higher and off to the no servo side. then i could make a 6 cell saddle pack with a 3s on each side... the motor would be a little higher though so i am not sure if it would be worth the extra balance. since i have never had one i have no idea how well balanced they are and a 6s 5000mah off to one side worries me in the big picture but then again i have never had a motor any where near the size of the neu 1521 finned.. Any input or comments on this would be appreciated :yes:

Heath

With a battery that size, you will be a bit heavier on the battery side. If you get all the electronics on the motor side, it won't be all that bad.

First off THANK YOU! you guys were right these are freakin awesome... not to much dead weight and they look great. I got the RPM arms and 17mm hexes installed :)

a few pics...

Snapped a few pics with the cam since the camera is D.O.A. :)

http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...Picture132.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...Picture131.jpg
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...Picture133.jpg

Soon to be alot lower then this :D
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...Picture135.jpg

and the other set of wheels :)
http://i280.photobucket.com/albums/k...Picture134.jpg

I am thinking of picking up another rear driveshaft to use in the front for an extra inch :wink:

I think the carbon fiber and RC-monster mount is next :yipi: anybody have some real close ups of this as I want to see if it should work with my chassis layout I plan to utilize :yes:

Thanks for all the advise:yes:

Heath

I would look into some Lunsford Titanium turnbuckles for those RPM arms. I just put those RPM arms on my Muggy and sheared the camber rod off and now I have to send part of a control arm back to RPM for extraction :cry: The Lunsford part number is 1435.

So far looking great! I would keep the motor on the servo side to leave room for bigger batteries (7s2p A123 anyone? :party:). Muggies are awesome, you're going to love it the very first time you drive it. That 1527 will be a handful to control though:

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...6&postcount=41

For steering, I use a JR ds8711 with the Dynamite aluminum arm with the stock steering arm screwed into the 2nd hole from the center. I can provide pics if you'd like. It is a BEAST of a servo, it has more torque than any other servo that you will be able to fit in the Muggy without modification and whips mine around really nicely. It sure isn't cheap, but it is one awesome servo.

Also, what do you plan to use for a battery tray?

Thanks for all the great info my friend, Much appreciated!

I will look into the lundsfords... good tip :yes: sucks to have to send em back but gotta love RPM's replascement policy! I will be using a 1521/1.5D actually so it is a bit much but not piontless power :lol: I will be using a MGM 250A ESC and flight power evo25's so I should get every last ounce out of it :intello:though.

I am actually going in a bit of a different direction then i have seen done before.... this will be a dedicated pavement burner and I will be making a completely custom Carbon fiber chassis utilizing a 6.7mm bottom plate and 4.2mm top plate all of ultra rigid 2mm weave. IT will sport a 1" ride height! The factory chassis braces will be history and the top plate will replace the seperate front and rear plates and make them one long support brace that will run the lenght of the vehicle connecting the front and rear assemblies. This plate will attach to the diff in the center :smile: as well. This should Prove to be a hell of a light and rigid combo...

Now for the cool stuff... i plan to run a saddle pack configuration :party: 1 3s brick style evo25 per side.... In the front i will have the motor to one side and the servo - esc - reciever on the other. If i am tight on room i can always move the radio or esc to the top plate :wink:

In order to get the room neccassary to do this i plan to lenghten the chassis as well.... I am still researching fitments etc.... but i have 2 choices what ever provides just enough is the option i will use since i want to lose as little turning radius as possible. I'm not really looking to modify the steeering hubs to get it back.

1. replace the front muggy center shaft with a rear muggy center shaft... this will give me an extra 1" in wheelbase

2. replace both shafts for LST2 shafts.... I have not verified this but i was told this will give me close to 2"

I would like to go airtronics for the servo but i will check out the JR! sounds like a brute

Let me know what you all think of this... hopefully it will layout correct but we will see.

Thanks for the compliments! :wink:

Heath

what kind of weight are you shooting for?

I dont have a number in my head.... I just hope to do things smart as possible with weight and durability in mind and see where i end up :yes: Considering the electronics I have alot of weight to make up for :lol:

Heath

The chassis looks like it has a front kick up - how are you going to deal with that?

Actually this is a pretty simple chassis to make if you are familiar with fabricating.... Basically a flat plate :wink: The front kick up is actually part of the front bumper.... I will utilize these for a while but once i have her moving I plan to replace these with some serious die cut foamies :yes:

Rather then the stock units (remember this will be soley a pavement burner running a 1" ride height) I have a way to make a plate that will connect in place of the stock unit in the factory screw position with a support bar that will run fron the center up to the factory support for the stocker similiar in idea but it will lay flat to the ground so the support will go up diagnally rather then parralell to the ground due to the new plates position. The plate will extend out for an inch or two with two posts utilizing body pins to hold the foamie bumper :intello: Similiar to how is done on many road cars

did that make sence... Sorry if i am talking chinese I barely make sence to myself :lol:

Think foam gym matts for material cut with a diecutting machine :mdr:... Should be pretty cool but like anything else Its just an idea at the moment.... things can change :lol:

Any an all input appreciated on the chassis layout etc... thanks for the input!

Heath

WOW! just realized flightpower has evo 25's that will fit as a saddle without extending the chassis :yipi:

Heath