Smoking ESC
 

I’m starting a new thread about Lutach’s 6S since his thread is already 40+ pages long.

Well, I just ran the truck a few hours ago and it came to a smoking stop on the third video. Total runtime was probably 6 minutes. I apologize for the crappy video since my son wasn't too keen on filming the truck.

My settings:
LVC cutoff - 19.2V (default is 0)
Brake Force - 100% (default)
Drag brake - 0% (Default)
Run mode - Two2 (default)
Start force - 30% (default)
Timing - Low (default is middle)
Neutral range - 8% (default)
Initial Brake – 30% (5% Default)
Reverse Brake force - 50% (default)

Initial brake force - 30% instead of 5%
Neutral range - 8% instead of 6%


After opening the ESC, I saw that the capacitor prong was broken and shorted either the caps or the ESC itself. I tried averting this by shrink-wrapping the base of the caps to prevent them from moving but to no avail. I think that the flip I made at the end of the 2nd video led to the broken capacitor prongs which eventually shorted and smoked the ESC.

Here are some videos and picture.

First video:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...h_Video046.jpg

Second one:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...h_Video047.jpg

Third:
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...h_Video048.jpg

Pic: It's hard to see the broken capacitor prong/s on the picture.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture146.jpg

Edit- by the way, it was cool(70*F) and windy today. The ESC temp after I disconnected the batteries were 160*F.

that sucks george, that BEC coil looks odly familiar ;)

Lito,

I already told the factory about the caps being too close to the PCB and it's causing some problems. Please post this in the ESCs thread so other can see it. See if it was just the caps that went bad and if possible take pictures of the heat sink off to see if any of the MOSFETs fried. That way we can see if it was the caps or the MOSFET(s). Also, if it's just the caps and after you change them and the ESC works fine, set the timing to middle. The low timing is more for 2 pole motors and 4 pole motors works good in the middle timing. Let me know what you want to do, I'll help you the most I can. I feel really bad for this to have happened.

Regards,

Luciano.

It's not the BEC Ben. That's there to power the Fan or the program box. It definitely looks like the caps are to blame here. They are too close to the PCB and you can see any hard bounce they do will break the leads off.

:oops:

i stand corrected

Give me about 10 minutes to open it up and take some pictures.

Here are some pictures of the ESC. I don't think it can be salvaged. The middle row of FETs looks burnt beyond repair. The white stuff on top of them is thermal paste that came off from the heatsink.

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture147.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture148.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture149.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture150.jpg

Heatsink;
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture152.jpg

Yep, that's fried. That has happened to me with a few ESC and the cause was bad timing set on them. The latest one was a 60A ESC from Hobbywing and I was using it with a 6 pole Mega. I made a mistake of changing the timing instead of another setting so one phase burned out. With the 4 pole Neu Y motors the timing should be at middle. Please send the unit back Lito.

Thanks Luciano. Check your pm.

I didn't see anything for 4 pole motors on the instructions so I decided to set it to low instead of leaving it on the middle setting :oops::neutral:.

Sent you an e-mail with my address. I posted what the timing should be with a 4 pole motor in the thread. Low timing is basically for 2 pole motors. All my 4 pole Y winding motors I run middle timing on them. The Neu D winds motor would be ok with low timing. Outrunners and most of the 6 pole inrunners do ok with high timing. I usually run low Kv 6 pole motors with middle timing without any problems. What usually happens, is the MCU doesn't process the data fast enough with the 4 and higher pole motor with low timing and you get a phase that burns like that.

this an expensive hobby!....i am sticking with my overprice Schulze 18.97esc!....i made 20 minute video at local golf course last night but cant seem to get it on the WEB!....did it fry due to user error(wrong settings)?

Lito, sad to hear about this....

Yes, it is an expensive hobby, but when your Shculze burns be ready to get a fire extinguisher, because it won't do like mine did. Only a little smoke and the Schulze catch on fire. It'll happen to you sooner or later. I was loving my Schulze in my truggy pulling around 60A spike, but then my truck was rolling slowly backwards and I applied a little throttle.....FIRE.... and I mean fire. Then try asking Schulze for a replacement or your money back. If it did fry due to user error, it's still ok as it's under a good lutach warranty. See if Schulze can beat that one. When your Schulze does catch on fire, please post it here. I hope it doesn't and you can enjoy the hobby for a long time.

Man, I feel really bad about it, but if it does happens, I'm going to stand behind the product and help as much as I can. I'm not like Castle, but I can assure you I'll be better then Schulze.

Dont feel bad I think you are doing a great job here....I think those cap support really needs to be looked at....

Ohhh and dont remove my name I will still get this just not now :whistle:

Man this sucks. Lutach, i'd have 3 of your ESC's now, but theyre so big I can't fit them in any of my current 1/8 stuff! It seems like 160F on the ESC is a bit high for the kind of driving you were doing, George.

Yes, the cap issue has been sent to the factory.

Luciano,

Beleza.. Even though this is the first failure, I'd like to commend you for your efforts in trying to get a good product to the masses. This is just a hobby, but it takes dedicated people like yourself to improve on what is already out there and your customer service has been first-rate. I mentioned this in another thread, but I purchased a bunch of larger caps from Digi-key awhile ago. I wonder if it's not too big a deal to retrofit ESC's with these caps and some 18-awg wire (normally used for receiver packs)? I did this mod to my OEMRC speed control which is very similar to the ones you offer component-wise and it's flawless.

just an opinion here...
any esc will have problems with that much braking power... wheel-locking brakes usually prelude a smoking esc...

as i said, just my 0.02...

Beleza (That kind of means what's up in Brasilian Portuguese btw)..I'm trying my best and it's not looking so bad. I'm going to take some pictures of what can be done to the caps, but they'll look something like the Hobbywing cap bank. I'll post pictures of it when I'm done. Thank you for posting.

Luciano

I purchased 3 of your ESC's and they are all behaving well. It was sad to see the pictures of the damaged ESC but I am hoping it was due to a timing issue. I checked my ESC's again to make sure that the ESC's that were paired to the motors were on the correct timing.

I think you are doing a great job and hope the testing will go on to be successful. and you will have a great product once the caps issue is sorted out.

Luciano, don't feel bad about it. It's not your fault. You went above and beyond by what most manufacturers do considering the fact the you're a small entity compared to these other manufacturer.

Like I said before, I'm going to do a torture test on any ESC I have before even going to the track :intello::intello:.

Anyway, you can send one to Luciano so he can send it to me. 160*F was the temp after the smoking.

I just want to make sure evryone knows this, "I really like this ESC. In spite of what happened, I will buy another one again".

Lito,

The member (magman) replied to me and he'll let me ship out his unit so you can get back in action. I'll send it out tomorrow and send you tracking number. Here is a little video showing what I did to secure my caps:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJcKU0VqjS8

That's great. I'll be dropping the ESC today and will PM you the tracking number. It will go USPS Priority. Thank you very much.

That's what I was trying to do but I chose to just wrap them halfway in order for the heat to dissipate better :neutral::mdr:.

Lesson learned. I'll shrink-wrap them better with the next one and just try to run them with stock settings.

You can change the settings to your liking, but I reather have the timing set to middle for the Y wound 4 pole motors. You should also see how many AMPs your pulling just to make sure it's not exceeding the 180A burst.

I don't have an Eagletree to check on the amps :neutral:. But yes, I'll keep the timing on the middle setting this time around.

I have a feeling the FETs blew due to the lack of input capacitance, not due to a short. Without capacitors the FETs can be exposed to some huge voltage spikes, especially during braking. This is why the MM can be made to run better in 1/8 with the addition of more low-ESR caps.

I think you are right. It does make sense. The abrupt stop and go was probably too much for the FETs to handle without the caps.

Lito,

I sent you the usual e-mail with pictures of your box ready to be shipped out. I'll send you tracking number later today. Sorry about what happened and with the next unit, please take all the necessary precautions to prevent the caps from breaking. If you can, please do an extra capacitor bank and add it to the original place or to the power wires as close as you can to the ESC itself. Please look at the following pictures for your study(It's of my 100A and 200A ESC and you can see the little wire next to the power wires are from the capacitor and it's soldered together with the power wires):

http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...h/DSC01317.jpg
http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/i...h/DSC01323.jpg

Lito,

I posted a few pictures in the ESC thread. They are for references only and you can use different caps as well if needed. Please do like I did to secure the stock caps so they don't bounce around.

Even Schultze tells you to use extra capacitors if your wires exceed a certain length. If my memory serves me correctly, this is due to the added inductance as a result of longer wires.

True. The wires on my ESCs are short and thicker then most of the Schulze ESCs and only their big dogs use 2 wires. The problem was what you pointed out before.

Thanks for the pics. I'll definitely put more reinforcement in there to keep the caps from moving.

Is it okay to put 2 additional capacitors even though it does not match the stockers? The 2 additional caps are rated for 35V, 105*C, 2200uF. These were given to me by killajb.

Yes.

Thanks. Now I can solder them tomorrow. I was just making sure that it's okay to do so.

Here are some pictures of the 3mm aluminum plate I cut and installed on the bottom of the ESC. I also added the 2200 caps killajb gave me. Performance wise, I got the ESC temps to 150*F, motor at 112*F, and batteries 98*F yesterday. This was stop and go running on asphalt. I also experienced hesitation when I tried to run wot. Batteries are Neuenergy 25C 5000mah.

Anyway, here are some pictures:

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture171.jpg

Also glued a piece of rubber underneath the aluminum plate.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture184.jpg

Added caps on the power wire. I also shrink-wrapped the standoffs.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture173.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture172.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture175.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture183.jpg

I also installed some plastic spacers to clear the capacitor wires. The spacers widened the gap between the board and mounting plate. Better airflow for better cooling. The gap is about 3/8".
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture174.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture170.jpg

Gap before I installed the plastic spacers.
http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture169.jpg