Savage XL-E
 

Short introduction to my brushless Savage XL, if you have questions don't hesitate to ask.

motor: Feigao 540XL10 in TeknoRC motor mount
esc: LT-6S-150A (by lutach)
batteries: 2x3S Zippy 5000mAh in series

Total weight for the truck in driving conditions is 6.28kg (13.85lb).

Transmission locked to 2nd and using 47t spur, 16t pinion. Selfmade battery trays (from freezing bottles, aluminium angle and epoxy), bolted to TVP's.
Ofna T/E-Maxx 17mm hex adapters (had them lying around for a while with no use), modified to fit Savage axle.

Otherwise the truck is stock - atleast for the time being...

Short video on snow can be seen here.

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040045_800.jpg

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040035_800.jpg

More pictures of the project can be found from here.

hi

i like this conversion. its simple and functional. locking the tranny is imo the way to go. nice work! :yes:
pay attention to the lipos in very low temperatures. did you warm them before using?
maybe you can use the battery holders of the flux when it comes out to make it look a bit more "factory style". i always used aluminium U-profiles for the battery holders.

bye
rhylsadar

Like ^ says; Simple and Functional!

Nice truck, and I like that snow over there.. =)

Thanks.
Actually I didn't warm lipos in any way, just very slow driving for about 10 minutes, then the rest was a little over half throttle max. They seemed to warm in use a bit, just to melt the snow slightly - didn't feel warm to hand though.
Temperature was around -4 degrees Celsius.

I have noted the Flux battery trays and am planning to get them as soon as they became available. :smile:

Thats awesome! Got a few questions if you dont mind. I am converting mine right now just waiting for castle to ship the combos. How is your drivetrain holding up and gears? Was locking into 2nd difficult? also are you using stock brakes or when you locked it can you have reverse?
Thanks!

I'm curious about your motor mount. Did you have to do anything special to use the tekno motor mount?

Very very nice truck. Finland is purrty.... :lol: :yes:

* Added some detailed pictures to project pics.

Savage03: After the somewhat total destruction on test drive #2 on 3 speed (which lasted about 30 secs and trashed idler & main gear), I locked the transmission to second with super epoxy. Also, all the unused gears and excessive sideplay from the remaining ones was removed, so I suppose it'll hold up now...
Using motor brake and have reverse now.

pic of the mishap:

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040017_800.jpg

here's the current state of the tranny (that's not water, it's grease):

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040052_800.jpg

locked gear:

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040055_800.jpg

47t spur gives plenty of gearing options, with the stock spur I could fit only 15t pinion max.

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040056_800.jpg



MTBikerTim: No special tricks, I just drilled few 4mm holes to the original motor plate and widened them so I can adjust the mesh.
I'm using only two screws to hold that mount on it's place, mainly because the center rear driveshaft and the openings at the motor plate came into way.

BL_RV0: Thanks. Beautiful but COLD, if I may say... :cry:

wow cracked that gear didnt it. Guess while im waiting for the monster max to ship I could lock the gear, like the idea of reverse.
No ones answered in my thread on this but which pinions do I use mod1? or im guessing these 32 pitch, dang spendy pinions to.
Thanks for the reply and pics.

Cracked idler and two teeth missing from the main gear :(
Mod1 pinions are the way to go.

Speedwise, how is electric compared to nitro?

Got my 3 speed cluster out and wondering did you use something specific for the spacers?

clowkoy: I'm not the speed freak, but I think the truck should go just fine and accelerate faster than nitro version.
Should - because there will be snow and ice in here for atleast next three months, so not much grip available for serious testing...

Anyways, this is what I got from the top speed estimator:

Differential Ratio: 3.3076923076923075
Transmission Ratio: 1.8894009216589862
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 47
Pinion Tooth Count: 16
Total Voltage: 22.2
Motor KV: 1668
Tire Diameter (inches): 6.69
Tire Ballooning (inches): 1
Motor Current Draw: 66
Motor coil Ω: 0.0114
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 2.94 : 1
Total Ratio: 18.35807 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 27.3 inches (693.43 mm)
Total Motor Speed: 35774.6 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 50.38 mph (80.93 km/h)
Estimated Adjusted Speed: 47 mph (75 km/h) - 7% loss
Effective KV Value: 1611.47
KT constant: 0.81 oz-in/A
Motor Torque: 0.28 ft-lbs
Final Torque: 5.12 ft-lbs
Final Power: 1465.2 watts (2 HP)


Savage03: There are three spots that you should check:

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/shimming.jpg

- to keep left bearing on it's place, use something that fits the axle and is the right lenght.
I used inner part of E-Maxx front driveshaft, which was cut to right lenght.
It is possible to use the clutch from 3rd gear, just remove all the moving parts.
- to remove sideplay from the axle, I used two 6mm shims between bearing & c-clip
- to remove sideplay from maingear axle, I used one 8mm shim behind right bearing
Shim could also be put to the left side, depends from the position of idler & main gear, the goal is to get them "inline".

The amount of shims may vary between transmissons, so just check that you remove excessive play and the gears still roll smoothly.
Can't remember from where I bought the shims, but atleast the 6mm ones do have a HPI part number.

First gear can be removed completely.
I left all three gears to the input shaft (where slipper & spur are) - it could also be reduced to one gear with proper spacers, but seemed a little too much hassle...

Nice write up on the locked tranny!
I'm still using the stock 3 speed with Neu 1515 1y on 4s with the mmm
Top speed right know is 48 mph (radar) with Losi Bolt-On tires.
I went thru 3 stock diffs, now I'm running Cen Gen ring and pinion conversion.
My motor mount is up high (kershaw design) and my lipo is inside the frame above the driveshaft and below the motor. Nothing hanging on the outside of the frame. Still using stock brakes, seem to work ok for me. I like watching the truck move around as it shifts thru the gears. I haven't done a speed run with the new gears, I think they are 10% faster then teh stock rear end ratio.

Nice improvisation using the plastic for the trays! Did you happen to have them, or did you do what I do and wander around Wal-Mart looking for ways to hack up everyday items for R/C use? :lol:

Yes, I actually do that.

Thanks for the detailed write up helped alot. I got mine all finished, I found that 2 tamiya bushings worked perfect so shimmed the main gear as well like you said, never paid much attention to just how much play their is in the center trans! Now their is no play and they line in perfect.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v1...e/9db1a6ca.jpg

doo540: Are the CEN Genesis ring & pinion gears straight fit for Savage or does this trick need some additional modification?
I might have use for those when I have some grip for the wheels... :oops:

BrianG: Thanks - we have something in common then. Those bottles just caught my eye when doing the normal shopping trip with missus. :yes:

Savage03: Glad I could help. Is the clutch locked at that pic? Looks like you've been a bit sparing with the epoxy (or whatever you used?).
If you look at my pic, you can see that I filled the clutch gap completely. I jammed the locking pin (or whatever it's called) against the spur and taped the holes from behind until epoxy was hardened.
Yes, the gears seemed to have quite a lot of play sideways, so much even that the idler did "overlap" the main gear, which will definetely cause problems.

Its in there pretty good, used jb weld and filled the clutch thing while it was open, I used a toothpick and stuffed it inside that thing. I then added more on the outside and put a layer on the flat side next to the gear itself then put it on the shaft to set.
Talked to castle yesterday and the combos are backordered since they added Traxxas and HPI to their orders so who knows when I will get to run this.

Ah, ok. It should hold up just fine. :yes:

When I saw Savage Flux I was thinking that there might be problems with the combo deliveries for the "ordinary customer". Seems like my thoughts were correct... :(
I bet that HPI has quite an amount on them in order together with Traxxas.

Holy cogs of steel... second time I was running my XL after I got the transmission fixed and this...

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040063_800.jpg

Luckily I have a spare pair of idler and main gear, but... this needs to be sorted out.
Do I have to reduce cells, change my driving style or are there any stronger gears available? Anyone have any ideas? :cry:

Well this has me worried and I havent got off the car stand yet. Flux might be the answer but I dont know what they have inside it yet, I know its a single speed but sure hope its stronger.

Janezki, do you have a pic of how you mounted the motor mount to the engine plate of your savage?

I'm going to try running the 2 speed tranny in my brushless savy conversion. but I'm only going to run it on 4 or 5s lipo. and see what happens. I just need to buy one shaft and the bearings for the tranny then I will put it back together and finish building the truck. if things don't work out I might switch the truck back to a nitro engine, but I don't know yet.

Here you go:

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040067_800.jpg

I had the original 52t spur on place when doing this.
First I measured the hole pattern of the Tekno mount (which is 32mm center to center btw.) and attached the motor with 15t pinion to it.
Then I placed the mount over the plate so that the pinion touched the spur and marked (scratched) the outlines of the mount to plate. I noticed that I could probably use only two screws for mounting because the plate has openings at the center and a little "notch" at the front (marked with yellow circle at pic) which might make the drilling a bit difficult, plus the center rear driveshaft was in the way (I was lazy and didn't remove the plate from the car...)
Then I made marks for the two 4mm holes to be drilled to 32mm distance of each other. I drilled second holes towards the center of the car, just next to previous ones and used dremel to grind the gap open - now I can move the mount to mesh the gears with different pinions.

Two screws with thread locker seem to hold the mount on it's place well enough.


I got the tranny fixed with the spare gears, loosened the slipper a bit and went for a little drive yesterday.
Managed to drive a full pair of packs with no problems. With second pair I was jumping from a small snow bank, had a bad landing and heard a loud cracking sound and...

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040064_800.jpg

...broke both upper & lower suspension arms. :oops:

Heard the cold can weaken plastics so maybe why its so fragile? I have beat mine to death as nitro and never broke a arm.
The lipos your using whats the specs? Being told I should look at nothing less then a 25c rated pack.

Yes, it was probably due to cold weather.
I have two sets of lipos - both were originally 6S1P packs, but I had to divide them into two 3S1P packs because of the battery holders. :whistle:
First pack was originally ZIPPY 5000mAh 6S1P 15C and the second was originally ZIPPY 4000mAh 6S1P 20C.

Just ordered one Kershaw direct drive gearbox for my XL. Now let's see if that holds up my throttle finger. :wink:

Got my hands on 2spd gearbox idler and drive gear and I must say that they are "a bit" stronger looking compared to the 3spd ones... :surprised:

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040089_800.jpg
(2 speed gears at top, 3 speed at bottom)

I might convert the internals to 2spd just for the heck of it, if I break them again before Kershaw's transmission is here.
Also, I ordered a set of black RPM a-arms since I'm not really a fan of excessive aluminium parts.

I have so many tranny gears laying around I probaly have those to, had my savage since they were released some years ago and just upgraded as I went along. Think the ticket will be the flux tranny parts or the Kershaw tranny your getting, very interested to see how that works for you.
I will update my thread here shortly with good news :wink:

You will need more than just those two gears - the idler shaft atleast and probably even more, see the exploded views.
If I have the time (and interest) I'll try to see what exactly is needed or can it be done with minor modifications to existing parts.

exploded views (click to see bigger);

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/2-spd_th.png http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/3-spd_th.png

New video available, click the pic below to see it on YouTube.

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/010109th.jpg

Had to change the esc to MGM ComPro 12018-3 because I got smokes from the LT-6S-150A... :tongue:
Also upgraded to RPM a-arms and changed back to stock hex adapters, because the E-Maxx ones started to wear from center hole, which caused probs with wobbling tires and changing camber.

ps. Happy New Year!

Ya I blew my 3spd aswell in my savage awhile back.

Heres a few pics...

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...edownRCU/1.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...edownRCU/2.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...edownRCU/3.jpg

http://i301.photobucket.com/albums/n...edownRCU/4.jpg

I have ordered titanium and Delrin gears. I think that is a very good solution for all problems:)

Look at my topic for details!

Greetz,
Joram

Proper stickers now...

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040258_800.jpg

Had to do something to keep myself busy, so I fixed my Savage with some lights.
Fronts are huge 20mm diameter blue leds which are attached to the bumper where the HPI "lights" were. I also glued fluorescent o-rings around them.
Rear lights are 12mm diameter red leds (not super bright), which are sitting at the bumber holes.
Leds are powered from receiver battery through channel 3 at my receiver so now I remember to turn the power off after driving. :smile:

When all the leds and wires are attached to the chassis, I don't have any hassle with wires when removing the body.

On to the pics -

fronts:

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040268_800.jpg

fronts off:

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040280_800.jpg
(they're really not that bright, just long exposure trick)

rears:

http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/P1040288_800.jpg

Leds & o-rings came from www.dealextreme.com and resistors from local electronics hobby store.

very kool :yes: Can you show a pic maybe of how their wired with resistors?

I can't provide actual photo since I've got all shrink wrapped, but here's drawings how they are connected:

fronts:
http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/fronts.png

rears:
http://janezki.pp.fi/grfx/savage_xl-e/rears.png

Drawings & resistor calculations provided by ledcalc.com

Thank you for that, one thing is R1 the value of resistor I look for?

Use the calculator at ledcalc.com and input all the necessary values, then click "Click To Calculate" button. The program tells you the proper resistor value in your case (in Ohms) and draws you the proper wiring picture.
The size of the resistor is depending from system voltage and leds used.