UE, Billy Trucks, FLM, RCM
 

I wonder how big Mike wants to grow RCM?

Billy Trucks is back up and selling knockoff UE parts. Robin Oury never patented anything.

Between RCM and FLM they have the ability to reverse engineer all the UE parts and start making them, and they have a place to sell them. And in my eyes these two companies are just as prestigous as UE.

If I wasn't crippled I would have been making lightning chassis' years ago and becoming rich. I just could never afford the parts to reverse engineer.

You guys get where I'm going with this?

MIKE! Close the open market. Make UE knockoffs!

Any opinions?

Interesting...
 

Now that is pretty interesting news Harold. No wonder Robin was always so pissed off at the world. He had a great product and could have really done something with it and kept it going. Though he was always complaining that there is no money in making stuff for R/C. This is a chance for someone else to jump in and make a few bucks. If people are paying $800 for the lightning SuperMaxx chassis on Ebay then there has to be some money in reproducing them. I like the RCM/Fastlane chassis because of the price and it works well, but the lightning chassis is truly a nice piece of CNC hardware. The attention to detail on the lightning is a good example for others to follow for high quality R/C products for sure. I to wish someone would snatch the opportunity and start making some equivilant stuff. Same thing with the UltraMaxx gear sets for the two speed E-Maxx tranny. I know there is always arguments against using the two speed tranny, but who cars if people want to buy them. I have 6 of them now with metal gears installed. Sorry to say though Harold I doubt if anyone wants to take this one on and do anything with it. :neutral:

Well, Billy boy did the footwork and figured out the legality. There is no reason not to. I gotta buy a waterjet..........

Damn, this is a pretty ingenius but a total asshole move at the same time.:yes:

it's business...

IMHO i think it would be bad for RCM. Look how this whole fiasco has affected Billytrucks, i have dealt many times with him and have been very satisfied with his great customer service. But this whole copy parts thing taints his good reputation, and im sure many will not deal with him anymore. If RCM and FLM get in on this as well, itll just reduce them to the same level as Billytrucks and also Integy dont forget. UE is UE, nuff said.

He opened up the door so to speak. We'll see if UE will start making parts again like promised by Robin.

With Mike's business ever expanding, with his business now, he could probably keep 2 cnc machines running 24/7...Add this new idea and Mike would never be seen again....:lol:

I agree with some of the above thoughts....interesting concept:lol:

I'm not holding my breath....I'd love to see it happen. Realize I am not a betting man, but I'd almost bet we're never going to see those new parts.

I really, really hope I'm wrong, its just I've watched that saga for tooo long to not be a touch jaded and pessimistic.

Exactly.
 

You see this is my point exactly. I can understand being angry about this if it was interfering with UE sales, but UE stocks have been pretty much none existant for a long time now. It is obvious that Robin is not going to support our interest in any of this or he would have kept filling the shelves so we could buy his stuff. If UE is not going to make the gear we want anymore, then why not have someone else copy it and sell it??? It is only an integrity issue if you are directly competing against the original designer/manufatcurer. This is obviously not the case here. Robin has given up on us a long time ago.

I don't personally know Mike, but doubt he will want to do something like that because he probably doesn't want to taint his reputation by being perceived as somebody that would infringe upon the competition by using someone else's proprietary designs-even if it was "their" fault not to do the leg work of getting the appropriate patent. I speculate that Mike will release his own line of patented and trade marked products that are compatible with many different rc brands. The slipperential is a perfect example...a slipper and diff combined...that will work in almost any rc vehicle that uses a center diff or center slipper. If it is marketed properly and the demand is high....then you could see Losi, Associated, X-Ray, Kyosho, etc. all clamboring to offer some version of his patented slipperential with their latest new and improved buggy/truggy. Look at the "new" diffs that X-Ray and Losi just came out with...lord only knows who really has the patent. It could be that one of these big companies tries to buy the slipperential patent out from under Mike...I hope he perseveres and stays the course as I think it would benefit him in the long run.

As for UE stuff...it is a shame that Robin doesn't retart his production. The craftsmanship of his parts (not the ofna based components) is truly second to none. My guess it just is not cost effective to maintain that level of attention to detail. He was probably barely making any money on what he was producing.

Your point on integrity is true and I agree...but it is from the buyer's perspective. I am sure Robin and other market competitors have a very different opinion. Otherwise we wouldn't continue to see folks get so emotional on this topic and we wouldn't continue to see the outbursts.

I agree with what SSS and all of you said, I worked for a comany that had patents, they seemed to run out after ??? 25, 15 years I dunno the lady who ran this operation never renued them and others tried to make the stuff, but it just wasnt the same. No name behind it. They tired but the name UE or in my case BIG RED just carries on. Why copy when Mike can make better stuff, he IMO just needs more workers or a better audience who will purchase. Im sure if we started an.."I want to buy a maxx motor mount like paralized has (single maxx bad boy) and send him $50 down payment after 20 pre orders he would have to love us lol

I agree to a point, and understand mike might not want into it. But would you rather buy from someone that makes quality copies (with permission of course) or cheap knockoffs. If Mike were to do this, I'm sure he'd do it right and ask to copy, using the identical materials, so as to not take away from the origional quality and durability. Someone less dedicated than mike (to the hobby and to UE) would take shortcuts and soon UE would be a joke and myth

IMO, if UE didn't have a design patent for any of their parts, then I see no problem with what BT did. I never saw any of the actual auctions, so the only issue would be if he were selling them as "100% UE" parts, since the name itself is copyrighted.

Aside from that, I agree with _paralyzed_. If I could afford a CNC machine I'd be making them too. Just put "Like UE" in the description, not "UE parts".

Word.

well...if you guys do buy the gear...I will buy a set of them set backs. Just please make sure they are smooth and polished like the UE originals.:tongue:

That's where I may be able to save some money. If I can get parts machined I can sit and polish stuff all day. My wheels are turning.....

Hmm, I see other oportunities in the MT section of the market than fooling with some almost 10 year old stuff for atruck that is getting a bit long in the tooth. Don't get me wrong, I like maxx trucks, and have a few, but there are better designs out there (revo for example) that could do with some re-engineering. I would like to see a lightning-esque chassis for the erevo, something interesting that really plays on its strengths.

Also, I have to say that an electric specific chassis for the lst would definately sell, especially if the steering setup was redone, and the chassis stretched a bit. I am working one something like that myself, but it would be nice for a real company to start making stuff for us LST fans. Flm did the savage chassis, and it is nice. They should branch out and include some other vehicles.

UE did not patent his stuff for a reason, and he should not be pissed. He quit making stuff when there still was a demand, and now someone has take up his slack. Sure, UE parts are know for their elegant design and durability, and knock offs will only look the same. I will always wonder why anyone would want to add a bunck of al parts to a truck that is not that strong to begin with, but that is just me and that is why I have a bunch of maxx trucks with plastic everything and lightweight wheels. That is how they survive best.

i gotta get a waterjet..............

F/Make a business plan there Para MIGH HELPPIS RICH DADDY

Someone told me that U.S. patent(lol N.A.F.T.A) cost around $10,000.I suspect that 10G is mostly patent attorney fees

im down if you fags make a business plan that makes sense

Information.
 

I am sure that MonsterMike can clarify this issue, since I know he touched on this very subject in regards to his slipperential on one of the other threads a month or so ago. It is very expensive in deed, and your product design needs to be worth some pretty good moola in order for you to be willing to spend that kind of $$$$ for a patent, and as SSSC stated there will be other companies who will folllow suit and come out with something very similar(copy), but not quite exact in design but we will all know where their ideas have come from. This is just the nature of the business world.

We all know there is a lot of emotions about this subject with UE and without all of the info involved with the UE designs it is hard to know exactly what is right and what is wrong. It is kind of a grey area. From what everyone says the UE super shocks and 6 & 8 spider gear diffs are really Ofna made products rebadged. So why all the fuss if someone wants to reproduce products that USED to be made at UE that you can no longer purchase from them? UE has all but faded away and haulted production on any of the products that we want to purchase of the Maxx line. In fact if you go to their website and look through the catalog 90% of their stuff is out of stock and has been for a year or more. Many of us have tried to communicate with UE to find some glimmer of hope that they will recover and get back in the game of supporting the R/C community and supply replacement parts for already sold items, but everything is a guarded secret except for the empty shelves.

There are a very few people who will speak badly about the UE Maxx line of products, because we all know what a great product design they produced. So no one is bad mouthing their products, but the up to date support is pretty much gone. Whether it is RCM, Integy, Kershaw Designs or whoever else what is the problem with someone wanting to step up and provide us with an alternative source for replacement parts???? LIfe goes on. Sorry if this offends anyone, but this is reality.

Ill place this simple I hope, you don't need a patent if some retards dont have the name..I.E..I.C.. Powell Paralta.. Mike bro you are the skate king of brushless, etch you logo on it and you are UE, Robin is getting lame, hate to dog but lets face facts. Patent or none, maybe got jacked..$50g patenet 1 twist of a wire its not yours. Just make it for the love of god. we may all have heart cancer by 50. Enjoy it while we are young brother

the market is still there. http://cgi.ebay.com/Unlimited-Engine...3A1%7C294%3A50

Hmmm, let me make a copy of my VBS using the CNC machine onboard the ship :lol::lol::party::intello::mdr::mdr:.

Yep.
 

I wonder what it will sell for? Hey Harold out of curiosity let us know what they get for it. Will it sell for over $800? Anything less these days is a bargain. I wouldn't mind having another one, but not for the going price. I think $400 would be the limit for me, and even at that price it is kind of steap.

Sweet, Make them for $100 a pair and I will be down for a set! :lol:

Done.
 

We both know that it can be done if you have the skills. Not to mention that you have vertually unlimited material stocks onboard. I was on three sub tenders and their machine shops were unbelievable. Our MR shop could make anything that a sub could want from any kind of material. Give it a try. Start small and work your way up to the VBS.

jesus probies is this what you do with our tax dollars <~ got that from NCIS (ouuuch ah oh ouch ack billy club) twaS A JOKE

I highly doubt I will ever do it. I don't have a lot of patience dealing with things like these unless I get one of the machinists to do everything for me (they did it when I was in a small ship) :lol::lol:.

FYI No way mike or jamie will do this - there seems to be a gentleman's agreement that extends to gorillamaxx on part copying.

Otherwise I can't believe why Gorillamaxx have the only single motor mount and single speed conversion...

FYI, Jamie already did when he made the FLM hybrids based on UE's VBS. So, where's the gentleman's agreement on that?

When I bought the setbacks from BT, they were advertised as UE. Only reason I would consider paying that kind of money for them. BT'ss advertising has since been changed so you know they are not UE.

What he is selling though still trades on the rep of the UE originals. I wouldn't be surprised that the guy making them is doubling his costs and BT is doing the same as well. $125 is still overpriced for a pr of UE knockoff setbacks even if they are 7075 T6.

As far as someone copying them to fill the void, it might be legal, but I don't see stealing someone else's intellectual property as ethical, period.

Robin sent me, my stuff instantly, cant say a bad word about him, stock may be low but what he has he ships like a gentleman

Unfortunate
 

Yea it is unfortunate that our business society works out that way for the original designer if a patent is not acquired, but that is the American way. If there is a demand, then someone is going to fill the gap left by the lack of supply. Bottom line is that this is a battle between UE and whoever else is copying his designs. If UE were to come out and ask for support from the R.C community by boycoting them and only buying his original UE products as a gesture of good faith, then I am sure that most everyone would jump onboard to support UE in return for UE support, don't you think? That is the problem right there. There is no support from UE and if you ask Robin for parts or info as to when they will be available you either get no response at all, or nasty responses and excuses, so it is no wander this problem exists in the first place. I know from first hand about trying to reason with him about getting their stocks refilled and reproducing the lightning chassis, but all you get back is "mind your own business", because he does not share company secrets. What kind of customer support is that? He claims that most of his stuff is just too expensive to re-make anymore, so if someone else wants to supply the R/C gap by making knock offs, then at least we have something to work with, and it is not illegal. So knowing all of this the arguement is mute.

I don't understand the "intellectual property" argument. If Robin had some fancy degree or used some state of the art software to design and make UE products I can see where this would be valid. They're hunks of polished aluminum, and the technology isn't too great for a high school dropout. Anybody here could have come up with his ideas, he was just fortunate enough to do it first and make a pretty penny.

If Robin were still making UE parts, then of course there would be ethical wrongdoings. I don't see any problem with supplying a product that people want. I refer you to 427 Shelby Cobra replicas. Nobody has a problem with anybody stealing Caroll Shelby's "intellectual property", Cobra's are no longer produced but there is still a demand so somebody stepped up and filled the void. This doesn't take away anything from actual Cobra's, it just gives the buying public what they want.

Business is business. Dollars trump ethics everytime.

I'm also dumbfounded that people are loyal to Robin Oury. I have tried and tried to become a member of the forums, I've been unsuccessful in ordering anything from him, and countless e-mails have never been answered.

I also don't understand how someone else making those parts takes away from Robin. He doesn't profit from astronomical e-bay sales. I don't get it.

Interesting thread, this one. I wanna hear more opinions. I'm not always right................

This subject.
 

The subject of UE always seems to induce some kind of excited emotions and anger for some reason. Some people respond from the premise that Robin is a peronal friend of some kind. If that is the case then please try to talk with him and get him to speak out to the R/C public and express his feelings in a way that will help us understand why any of us should defend or support UE at this point. Yes we love the UE products that has never been a question. The thing that I think we all feel so jaded about is the lack of support from UE. Sure there may be a few people who can still squeeze a part from Robin here and there, but he has pretty much abandoned the R.C community as a whole. I have purchased UE gear both from EBay and from UE directly, but only in limited quantities. This is not a subject for any of us to argue or fight about. It is a subject in which we can discuss and come together in search of a resolve that will help us all overcome and maybe find some answers. If anyone knows first hand what is going on at UE then great, share it with us. If not then it is all just speculation. We have all head rumors to the effect that UE was going to bounce back and refill the shelves in the last two years. If UE does plan to produce any of their famous toys, then why not release that fact to the general public and shut everyone up? All of these emotions and discontent are being fueled by the silence comming from UE. Like I shared with Robin a while back if he treated Harley Davidson the way he is treating the R/C community he would be embroiled in a battle with them. Maybe that is the problem. We are a large community to be sure, and we produce a steady flow of money for this hobby. So somebody is going to step up and make some $$$$ one way or another. If not UE, then someone else. Simple economics supply and demand.

I see nothing wrong with Mike or FLM offering their own versions of things like Setback arms- so long as they arent a direct copy of the UE design. Heck, you could design arms that are just swept back like the optional Revo ones are- no need for the fancy setup the UE design call for (talking about the rear knuckle design specifically with that setup).