Castle 2200Kv or Medusa 80mm 2000Kv
 

Hi there,

im going to convert an 1/8-scaly truggy (Mantis). Since the 8s-ESCs are too expensive for me I decided to get the MMM. I wonder if the MMM-Set with 2200KV-motor or the MMM-ESC with a 80mm Medusa 2000Kv would be the better option. The Truggy will weight around 4.7kg and run on 6s. It will be used for bashing only.
I should rather be overpowered then underpowered.
I wonder if the larger diameter of the Castle means that it produces more torque than the longer and heavier Medusa. And how do they compare in terms of efficiancy?

many thanks

If you'd rather be overpowered than underpowered, go Castle.
If you want more torque, go Castle
If you want more efficiency, go Castle.

I believe that is all still opinion, and not based on facts. I would bet the Medusa would have better torque, perform better on 6s,and the efficiency would be very similar. I know that my 2 main bashing buddies each run the CC 2200 in E-revo's,I run a Medusa 60-2000,with a Medusa heatsink. We all vary our gearing,tires and cell counts depending on how we feel. But all said and done, performance, and temps are very close,whoever is geared for the fastest speed,wins. IMO if I was running the 80, my torque would be noticeably higher, and temps would drop. So, if I was just buying I would get the combo,for cost factor,but I think the Medusa is a very good choice if your looking for a single motor. But if your set on running 6s,I'd go with the 80-1600,probably the most efficient at that voltage.

Asheck - what cell count are you running the 36-60-2000 on in your e-REVO? What speed are you geared for and how are your temps? I'm trying to decide between the 60-1600 and 70-1600 for my e-REVO on 5s. I'm looking to get less torque than my 1515 neu 1650kv. The neu is awesome but I want something that isn't going to wheely the whole way around the track but I can still bash with!

I think Ascheck is right in that the efficiency and power between the Castle-Neu and Medusa 80mm will be probably very similar. The Medusa will have a *slightly* longer rotor, but the difference will be very small. All I know is that my Castle motor stays ice-cool (not literally lol...but hasn't hit over 130F).

However, the Castle motor is built much better for offroad use, IMO. Bigger bearings, and a much thicker/tougher casing. That the windings terminate inside the motor and are presoldered to nice, thick 10AWG wires makes things even easier. It's also sealed, so you won't get any rubbish inside. A word of warning though; The Castle motor on 6S will be utterly incredible! Good job you're bashing, as it'd be way too much for racing unless you have exceptional finger control.:yes:

Either of those motors can produce insane amounts of power and remain cool, but I'd go for the Castle personally. It's just built better.

I completely agree with these statements.

thanks for all the replys, i just thought the Medusa would be more powerful since it weights 60g more than the Castle-Neu.
So i think im going for the Castle-Set then and if it turns out as to aggressive i will use less cells or configure the throttle-response-curve. And if all that wont help i can still buy the Medusa later if i feel i need it, but i cannot get the Castle-Neu as cheap as i get it with the set ... so maybe i go that way.

Well darnint, my problem of not reading the posts rears its ugly head again. I didn't see the 80mm in there for some reason. Now that I see that, i'd have to say it would probably be a pretty close contest. I was thinking 70mm for some reason.

I run 4,5 and 6s.But I probably like 5s the best,but thats the hardest combo to come up with.Currently I'm geared 24/65 with Tamiya TNX5.2r tires.I try to keep gearing to low 40's on 4s,and high 40's on 5.My temps generally stay under 135, but are just a touch cooler on 5,then 4 ,I don't worry about temps to much unless I have it geared something silly. So IMO if your looking for lower torque,and plan on keeping gearing reasonable I think the 60 would be plenty.

I got a reply from Mike today. He has recomended the 70mm so that's what I'm gonna go with. He was running the 60-2000 in his but said that at the end of a 20 minute run he was at the high end of the safe temp zone. I have seen Mike race and as he said he is a very smooth driver and if he was on the edge I don't want to chance it. For helping to control wheelies he has recomended playing with the settings on the controller and my radio, specifically the throttle curve. Hopefully I be placing my order before the end of the week!!!

I'll second that, the 60mm isn't any good for racing.. I toasted one and I'm not a "bad" driver.. you need it geared really low to keep under temp in long mains. Holds up fine for a 3-5minute heat though. I'd say 70mm is the bottom of the scale, but you can snag Castle 2200kv motors for 150 why would you bother with the medusa? PS check the specs, the medusa 80mm will run hotter than the castle-neu, it cannot generate anywhere near as much torque.

Hard to find anything wrong with this post.

I've got an 80mm Medusa in my Muggy and it's an excellent motor but nothing compares to a Neu. The price difference between the 80mm and the CC Neu is negligible, you can get a CC Neu for $140-$150 and I got my 80mm for $135. Just get the CC Neu, they're a good motor.

I don't want the CC/Neu because it's a 2200kv motor! I'm running 5s and I don't want to gear down that much. Lower kv higher Voltage geared for the same speed is a more efficient setup. Also a small pinion and large spur that would be needed for the 2200kv on 5s isn't as efficient either. The closer the two gears are to the same size the less resistance there will be between the gears. My 1515 2.5D is 1650kv and I'm very happy with it, a little less power wouldn't be bad. A 1600kv Medusa is the closest I can get to this without shelling out another $260. I already have a 36-50-4800 in my crt.5 and the motor is awesome, I expect larger motors will be of the same quality.

I have both the CC2200 and a 80mm 1600kv Medusa and an MMM for both. I was thinking that the medusa was better suited for the muggy, but after reading this thread I'm not sure.

What do you guy's think is a better combo for a muggy, and since I'm asking which for my Raze ST Truggy? Thanks

Sorry if this is a hyjack.

-Brian

I don't own any 1/8 scale motors yet BUT I feel the same way you do.

On paper 2200kv is too much, especially since I plan on running 6s. If CC/Neu offered a 1600kv or thereabouts then I think it'd be a stronger argument. But as it stands, on paper, the 1600kv Medusa seems like a much better fit for 6s.

Run them both and lets see a side by side!

An eagle tree setup is my next order, but I can't pull that trigger just yet. Once I get that I'll post up all kings of results. I've got a bunch of stuff I want to get data from.

-Brian

I tried running my 1515 2.5D on 6s and quickly switched to 5s! On 6s even at 3/4 throttle I still couldn't give it everything cause it's flip over backwards! 5s is much more driveable IMO for this motor. I'm planning on running the 36-70-1600, MMM, 23t pinion and I have 54,56,58,62,65,+68t spurs to get the speed for a particular track or bashing. I also have a 20t and 25t pinions already.

Whichever one generates more torque is what I'd run in the Muggy as it's a heavier truck.

stum - what specs are these? Sorry, I don't know how to read the specs for motors or even where ther are.

I've driven 3 different E-8ight buggies with MMM, 4S, and the following motors: Medusa 60x2000, Castle Neu 2200, Neu 1512 2050

Castle Neu: I didn't really like the Castle Neu. It was jerky in acceleration, very jerky on the brakes, and had the most drag by far when turning off power

Neu 1512 2050kv: This is a very easy to drive motor with plenty of power, but still very smooth and controlled for a non-sensored motor. It had the least amount of off power drag and allowed the buggy to turn better than the others.

Medusa 60x2000 (I own this one): Sits between the two motors in smoothness and ease of driving. IMO much better than the Castle Neu, but the Neu Neu was also a lot better than the Medusa.

Seeing as the Castle Neu 2200 is more comparable to a Neu 1515 or a Medusa 70 or even 80 the differences may be a lot smaller when compared to these more similar motors.

Well I agree about the 5s, just make sure you can run it racing... many tracks won't allow over 4s hardshell. If it's open though and doesn't matter and you want to stick w/ 5s price wise you can't find a better option than the medusa 70 or 80mm. I would get the 70mm if you only want 40mph, if you want 50+ I'd say get the 80mm can.

To your point also.. I have a Neu 2.5d on 5s in my Losi 8ight-t conversion and it's perfect on the track :) I have the Medusa 36-60-2000 in my 8ight buggy and that too is a perfect home for it, the motor again wasn't quite enough for the truggy or erevo but is sweet on the buggy.

Good luck.

I put the Castle 2200 on a converted Revo with twin 6S lipos. Well it just keeps twisting or breaking rear shafts. Used MIP CVDs, Integy. I guess they don't make any strong enough.. Was thinking to downgrade the voltage some maybe 4S or 5S.. I guess in the mean time I can pull the curve down to the desired voltage...

There is no drive train that will stand up to standing back flips for very long... the stock holds up just fine on 6s 2200 combo, wo a problem racing/bashing. When you twist a lot of drive shafts it tells you 1 thing, your slipper is on too tight! Back it off a bit.... typical event that causes the breakage is landing WOT on asphalt and/or concrete surfaces because they have very little give (from jumps or backflips). Again loosen the slipper and the stockers WILL hold up.. and don't land WOT, let off.. land then floor it.

I still have to break any driveshafts/center shafts on my gmaxx powered by 6S lipos standing doing double forward or backflips :lol::lol:. However, I have burned a couple of ESC(MMM and Lutcah's 6S) in doing so.

IMO 5s is the sweet spot , but hard to come up with for the E-revo chassis, If I had a conversion it's all I would run. As it is I like 4s just fine, for around 45 bashing it does great. Temps are never a problem.

I am using 6S Heli batteries wrapped in foam. twin 3750Mah..:yes: I was think to save some cash to back the curve down to max at 4 or 5S...

It seems as soon as I back the slipper it toasts it. I have the RR dual slipper, are there better ones out there?

Getting ready to get my revo back up and running after I stripped the wheels. So I thought I should invest in a better motor, CCNeu 2200 seems to be the prefered choice but I'm debating thermal issues about it, I want a motor that can handle 6s with a 24/54 gearing and be able to go top speed on road, dirt, gravel, grass, or whatever else minus tall grass and the usual stuff that put excessive strain on the drive train and motor, but I want to keep temps below 150 in all those scenarios, equaly I want to be able to toss in 4s and gear the truck for 25-40, kinda hard to drive this thing in an area with a couple of trees, going 30ish. So I was thinking of getting a medusa, but couldn't remember what size most of you guys use for various trucks, checked around and narrowed my choices. However while digging up those numbers I came across this thread and noticed the strong arguement betwen medusa and CCneu.

So I ask you guys for 4-6s, good runtimes, low motor temps, and to be able to gear from 24/54 to 18/58, and without destroying axels, diffs, or flipping the truck into the next county, which motor would be a beter choice a CCNeu 2200 a Medusa 36-70-2000 a 36-80-2000 or another variant of the medusa line?

Thanks for any help guys.

CCneu especially since you are going off road. The motor is designed for this while the medusa's are designed for airplane use. I have run the medusa's and they offer a lot of torque but again they are more designed for high air flow rate over the motor to aid in cooling. I think dagger's post above sums this up very well as others have said too.

Seeing as I don't see what vehicle you are going to run it in I can't gauge you on the gearging. However I will tell you that nothing out there will be able to run off road set up for high speed street runs without high temps.

I can run my LST2 with the CCneu geared for low 60's on the street and the temps stay in check, but if I try this gearing off road things heat up real quick. I have it now geared for low 50's which gives it good road speed and good off road power. I also have the throttle curve set so that from 0 to 3/4 throttle you only see about half power and get from half to full power in the last 1/4 of the throttle range.

Thanks for the extra info TSP, BTw 1st sentance says revo, I was just wondering since the lower the motors kv is the higher the input voltage accepted is without getting too close to max rpms and due to the higher voltages used the lower the current draw keeping all the stuff a little bit cooler and I just figured since medusa's are in my price range and that they offer a larger kv selction then the CCneus that a 2000 would be betwen a 1600 and a 2200 for a nice middle area to offer lower temps and a wider range of operating settings to allow between 40 and 75mph and the choice of 4-6s and as far as torque goes if brians calc is correct the medusa offers more torque in both 70mm and the 80mm cans but only by about .05 and axel torque is off only by .26 all the way around.

You do realize that 24/54 gearing on 6s with the CCneu and the stock talons is gearing for around 90 mph? You won't even be able to gear for 60+ and stay cool off road with any motor. I did the calculator with stock e-revo tranny and talons ballooning at 1".

<table border="1" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Differential Ratio: </td><td>2.8461538461538463</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Transmission Ratio: </td><td>1.8333333333333333</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Other Ratio: </td><td>1</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Spur Tooth Count: </td><td>54</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Pinion Tooth Count: </td><td>24</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Total Voltage: </td><td>22.2</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Motor KV: </td><td>2200</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Tire Diameter (inches): </td><td>5.9</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Tire Ballooning (inches): </td><td>1</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Motor Current Draw: </td><td>0</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Motor coil Ω: </td><td>0.006</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Spur/Pinion Ratio: </td><td>2.25 : 1</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Total Ratio: </td><td>11.74038 : 1</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Tire Circumference (inches): </td><td>24.82 inches (630.39 mm)</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Total Motor Speed: </td><td>48840 RPM</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Vehicle Speed: </td><td>97.77 mph (157.05 km/h)</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Effective KV Value: </td><td>2200</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">KT constant: </td><td>0.61 oz-in/A</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Motor Torque: </td><td>Amperage not specified...</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Final Torque: </td><td>Amperage not specified...</td></tr><tr valign="top"><td nowrap="nowrap">Final Power: </td><td>Amperage not specified...</td></tr></tbody></table>

Stock Talons!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Are you craz!?!?!?!!? I trashed those with my 2650 on 3s geared for 18/58, the CA glue couldn't even keep the tires in the wheels! Nah I've since switched to PL Badlands on Maximizer beadlocks, duct taped on inside of tires to reduce balloning.

The 36-80-1600 medusa has similar(or same) internal resistance as the CC 2200. On 6s the medusa hits it's sweet spot (I believe) while the CC is going to upper limits. Thats not to say the CC cannot handle it, it has larger bearings and sealed can for offraod use. The medusa generates it's torque from a longer rotor while the CC generates it from a larger diameter rotor. I don't have a prefferance for one or the other but just want to confuse the issue more lol.

I'd go with CC so you don't have to plug any holes.

Edit- the medusa needs a heatsink bought separately too

Go w/ the Castle 2200, geared w/ a 12t pinion on 6s lipo you hit a top speed around 53 w/ some tire bloat. I agree w/ the guy above you want the sealed can when possible, it makes life easier.