li-po in hard case
 

Check this out, it looks very tempting:

http://www.speedtechrc.com/store/ebp...id=133&id=5826

Whats the voltage?

Peak and Orion both make these packs now. They are made to replace a 6-cell nimh pack. They are 7.4v and the dimensions are within 1mm of a normal 6-cell pack.

I'm only waiting for these things to be sold within the 70s range or so.
BYT Batfish, do you have any idea whether these packs are equipped with a balancer or not?!

They supposedly have a balancer built-in.

Orion's listing says there is a balancing port on the pack, but you can't see anything in the pic they've released. Peak's listing doesn't say if they do.
I think there are a couple of the Orion packs in stock at my local track. I'll be racing on-road tonight, so I'll see if I can get a good look at one of those packs. I hope they're not sealed in the package - I'm not ready to spend $165 (yes, that's the shop price) for one of these packs.

Probably they're expensive because of the hard case it has been covered with, but I'm not sure if its a hard case or not. The other lipos are covered with heat shrink tubes. As for the prices, speedtech rc is one of the most beloved rc shops for all the parts and touring cars being sold for a very challenging ( TC4, for example, is sold for 220 at towers, but 190 at speedtech) and reasonable prices. Lipos might be sold for even less prices in the future through them. Those who need after market parts for their cars can find many things at this place. Sounds like I'm making an advertisment for them...

Any way, Will the Scorpion charger be able to charge it?

The Scorpion (and other) FMA/Kokam chargers are designed to charge their specific packs. Although I'm sure they could be used for others, I would not recommend it.
They have a proprietary charging jack.

The Orion/Peak batteries use Kokam cells. They have a balancing port on the bottom side, opposite the battery plug in side. They are 7.4 volt, 4800mah and about the same size as a 6 cell 3700 pack, but weigh abour 4.5 oz or so less. I just got a few in to test, actually. The battery connection actually plugs into the case using gold connectors, (the balancing port is similar), so you can easily attach your own connectors(and easily reverse voltage if you don't pay attention when you plug in the connector leads!).
They seem like a great product for off road use, as the plastic case should prtect the cells and eliminate most of the "concern" when using these in an e-maxx or electric Revo.

So they are good in comparison with other shrink tubed lipos.
Well, lets save some money after I get my sweet truck.;)
Hope you have given my list a peak. :)

I disagree somewhat. Since these packs are in a hard case, you can't know anything about the physical state of them. For example, you would never know if they ballooned. Also, if they got too hot you would never know it.

What might cause the ballooning, Metal Man?

Shrink tubed lipos? You mean shrink wrapped Lipos :L:. Not really, because a thin layer of plastic will transfer heat a lot better than thicker plastic (of a hard case). Just about the only good thing this case provides is firm protection for the cells if for some reason the pack were to be ejected from the vehicle. A standard Lipo pack that is firmly secured into a vehicle works just fine.

Overdischarging, overcharging, overtemperature, imbalance.

More than anything, it will explode. I take it back, for now.

Explosion isn't all that likely, especailly with Kokam cells.

Thanks, Man. I'll leave it for another time.

I am pretty sure a "bloated" cell would flex the plastic case, Metalman. It isn't a very thick case, and has some flexibility. I doubt a damage would go unnoticed truthfully.

But there is still the issue of heat. And if it is a thin case, then it could still be damaged in a crash

Well, anything can be damaged. The plastic is pretty thin, and would flex with a bloated cell for sure. I still think it offers a nice layer of direct protection for impact and flying rocks thrown by the spinning front tires, for example. Also, there is no chance of a small sharp stone lodging itself between the cells to cause future damage. I do get your point, but IMO, the Kokam cells are not likely to have problems, and the case/plastic packaging of the Orion batteries is a benefit. For one, they are shaped like a rectangular cube, whick makes holding them an easy affair. The fit damn near perfectly in place of a 6 cell pack, which is another nice feature.
The packs are rated for 70+ continuous amps, with bursts of twice that , so I don't forsee heat issues under normal use, either.

they do look nice, the only issue I have with them is the price. i am not ready to spend $139 a pack right now.

they do look nice, the only issue I have with them is the price. i am not ready to spend $139 a pack right now.

What's that size like :L:

The packs are rated for 70+ continuous amps, with bursts of twice that , so I don't forsee heat issues under normal use, either. [/B][/QUOTE]

At their full rated discharge, they would probably hit ~150-160 deg. in open air (no air flow). At something lower (like car use), it should only get about 110. But encased in a package where heat cannot leave, there could be problems.

In my e-maxx, I would expect to get around 10 or so minutes runtime on my track(the kokam 3200s in 4s will last me around 7 minutes in race conditions), so my amp draw is nowhere near the full rated discharge. The rated 70 amp continuos current woudn't last a 5 minute race. Real world use will yield twice that or more(half the rated amp draw), so they are plenty in the safe zone. Just to get the cells to last a 5 minute race, the average amp draw would only be 2/3 of the rated capacity. The reality is that the cells in even an open design get very little airflow with the body on the vehicle.

I don't think we should be considering runtimes when trying to figure out the heat of a Lipo battery. My Rustler can get very good runtimes out of a 3300mah Lipo battery (like 15-20mins), yet somehow the battery comes out warm. This is due to the large amp bursts, and these are what need to be focused on (not average draw). For example, I was just running my Rustler with the Eagle Tree Micro Recorder hooked up doing some back-and-forth runs with normal gearing. My 3300mah battery is only rated at 33amps continuous, yet it was allowing spikes to 60+ amps. I hadn't been pulling too many amps during this 5min. run, since the GPS was on it, but not strapped in. As soon as I removed the GPS and started doing some wheelies and quick pulls of the throttle, the battery actually started to heat up. But even still, the average draw was most likely only ~15amps.

I realize that there shouldn't be a problem with these batteries, but you have to figure the worst case scenario. My personal opinion is that temperature is far more important that small dents (from rocks), as Lipo cells can take them (and the shrink wrap would take most of the force of the rock). For this reason, as well as the extremely high (IMO) price, this pack will never be sitting in any vehicle of mine.

mike, will you be selling lipo anytime soon? Or at special request?

He's already selling them. Just send him an e-mail: mike@rc-monster.com

MetalMan - I think your points can be valid when considering very high-powered setups in bashing/racing situations, but it's almost invalid for normal setups in racing conditions.
If you're running a brushed or brushless setup appropriate for your racing environment, these packs would just about never be pushed to their continuous maximum, and barely ever have peak currents near their maximum capacity.
I'm pretty sure that Orion and Peak did not design these lipo packs with high-voltage brushless systems in extreme conditions in mind. As far as I am aware, they were designed to replace 6-cell nimh battery packs for 1/10th scale racing vehicles. In this application, they will exceed the nimh packs in performance and capability.

I won't argue with you on that point. But for guys like me that run higher voltage in their 1/10 STs, this pack just won't do (too low voltage). It's a whole 'nother ballpark when you run 4s Lipo on a 3000kv motor in a Rustler ;).

You both have got a point.

it is clear to me, that metalman is not a fan of packing any lipo cell. I remembered about the same reaction on my post of the lipo packs from the UK..

I am curious if Kokam is going to launch these cells not only for the OEM's.

I dont want to pick any lipo cells as well, but I thought that the hard case these lipos have is something good. I've never thought it would cause a bit of controversy. Now I'm sure that I dont want it, too, since I need a HV pack to give a 1950/10 the power it needs to pull a heavy truck to high speeds.