Need info for 80mph brushless truggy...
 

Hi guys,

im not on the forum that often since im more a nitro guy, but im slowly crossing to the dark side lol

The fact is i dont really know a lot about brushless setup and need info.

I need a setup that could handle running 80mph without overheating?

Can a Neu 1527, Castle HV 110 esc and good lipo (dunno if it can handle
12s with this setup?) do the job?

I want something ridiculous, i like the fact of having torque even if geared over 70mph but i will not do it if its gonna overheat...

My friend have the e-revo with a Neu 1515 1.5d and MMM, on 6S it go easily at 70mph but will tend to overheat when you do low speed wheelies, but it got still so much power...
Thats frustrating to have all that power but not using it all day because of overheating...

i would really want a setup that allow me to run in the 80s all day long, and keep that gearing for bashing.

Thx for any info or tips.

:)

Mike

the 1527 will be fine with your application, the phoenix hv110 can handle 12s. You will need mechanical brakes with your setup. You might be able to get away with a low kv 1521.

Higher voltage setups prove to be naturally more efficient- so you don really NEED that big of a motor-unless your truck is going to be heavy. Also this allows you to run lighter-lower MAH packs.


A 1521 2.5d Would put you in the ball park...

I think a 1527 on 12S lipo is more than enough to provide you with that, assuming you keep the rest of the truck light. 12S is a lot of battery, so you'll want as little weight as possible while maintaining a good current rating. I think 30C (or higher) batteries are a must in this case.

I will have to say, there will be very little low speed drivability, as since it is geared so high the minimum speed will have to be "that" high.

Thx brushlessboy, if i understand it right, i would need a motor that can handle 50W?

That would mean a 1521 2.5D
or a 1527 1Y

?
according to those spec:
http://www.neumotors.com/Site/1500_series_.html

Thx !

Ok, its weird, my friend revo can backflip from a standing still and get over 70mph, but it overheat.

I really want to get 80 without any overheating.
If you guys have a setup to recommend, to keep the truck still bashable, but able to strech his leg whenever i want up to 80 mph, and if i can gear it wider to really see a top speed once in a while also, but then i would not run it all day geared for top speed... :)

thx again!

I would possibly look into eliminating the center diff in place of a 2-speed.

This would pretty much ensure your truck would never overheat, since normal running would put it in gearing with a top speed of about 55/60 and when it his 2nd it'll be able to pull hard up to speed.

Is there any 2 speed transmission able to hold up to the power?

Most 2 speed i used couldnt handle a good modified .28 engine for extended period, cant imagine with brushless.... lol

Do you think it could handle 70mph without overheating then, i think i can live with 70mph and gear up once in while for speed... :)

Thx

2 speeds are not worth it- they just make more rotating mass.


They are designed for a sort ratio in first gear allowing quicker acceleration with nitros- then high top speed with the taller 2nd gear.


Since Brushless motors make there power from 0rpm all the way up- these are not necessary and do more harm then good.

You have any suggestion as for battery/motor combo with the HV110 esc ?

i thought about the 1527, but if the 1521 can do it ill take this one..


:)

even if you get a setup that will run safely at these speeds, it will be near impossible to keep the truck on the ground past 65 or so. That is, REAL 65mph. If it is possible, it will be by far the most difficult part of this. Once my Muggy hits about 60, it just wants to fly away! Good luck!!

on 6s when my truggy hits around 55, it wants to become a kite..

Although your set up can be done, it may not be ideal. Esc's like to run wide open, they will heat up more when used at part throttle all the time. As an example, my old MLST was geared for about 30 mph or so, I could drive it outside, mostly full speed, pack after pack all day long and everything was just warm. But if I ran it in the house, low speeds with lots of braking, the ESC would get very hot. I would get a set up that can do the high speeds, but change gearing as needed for where you are running (large area vs small area). You can't use 80mph top speed on a small track (or small back yard) just like a 30mph top speed wont get you down the straights fast enough on a large track (or large parking lot).

Ok, thx will take that into account.

:)

Gear for 40 and you will find it to be much more usable and cheaper... plus everything will run cool.

I guess my question is why 80?

Do you really understand what it takes to make 80 mph and what your truck/truggy will handle like at those speeds?

Do you really understand the setup time it will take on the suspension and tires wheels to maintain those speeds? You also have to find tires that will stay together.

Most nitro trucks that claim 45+ never get above 40. The speed ratings given are on flat street conditions with the maxed out gearing and a perfect tune.

I have found most people are shocked when they see my revo going 40-43 and always think it is much faster. I have had it up above 60 and will tell you it's no picnic. You also need a nice long area to get these speeds. I have also had my new LST2 brushless conversion near 60 and it is screaming at that point.

There is a lot that goes into speed and it takes time and money to have a good reliable setup. Running the 1.5d at 70 mph and doing wheelies with it is just silly. When I want speed runs with my trucks they are geared differently than if I am running off road and/or just bashing around.

Just ask Jzemaxx for some tips. His had his LST2 over 80 mph many times.

I do know what is involved to make it handle like it should, i have had my Nitro revo up to 66mph, nitro buggy to 77mph and truggy to 65mph all of those are the non-official record for nitro powered vehicule.

Right now we are at 76mph for the revo but my friend is waiting for new battries, hes running a pair of SMC 3S 3400mah 18c and they are not up to the task...

I had a twin nitro engine truggy i custom made geared for bashing that ran 67mph and could still pop wheelies, i have the record also for the Nitro Jato 76, the Nitro 4tec 81.

Its not to brag since a lot of poeple will be able to reproduce those speed, but was just to say i know what it take as far as setup.

If i was able to get my revo to run 66mph without any overheating issue i thought i could get a brushless setup to do even better.

Thats what i would love from my truck, being able to get unreal speed without overheating, and also being able to bash with it using that setup, swapping only the tires for speed runs.

But if you guys think its not possible to do its alright, i will think about doing something else, i was just impressed by my friend's revo power, but not being able to use that power will mean nothing for me unless it runs cool....

Hope that make sense... sorry for my english my first language is french.

:)

my question is how is he gonna run an HV-110 with a pistol grip radio?...the hv-110 is an airplane esc and uses a stick radio. they don't translate the same throttle responses without something like a pistix and i haven't seen any of those in a long time. you could use an airplane radio, but it dosen't have the spring recovery a car radio would have although i have heard of people modding the radios to use them.

Pistix adapter.

Then what esc would let me run the Neu 1527 with good power?

Thx for any info, i tried to find a Pistix adaptor and couldnt find one...

Do a quick search in here, someone is making the pistix again.

Forgive my hesitation with you on the speed deal. I have seen a lot of people say they want X speed and really have no clue what X speed really is in the real world, that's all. If you have been there then you know.

I really think the overheating issues with the revo is the 1.5d. That motor is just too hot to run on 6s. Going back to the 1y 2200kv is a better bet. I have the CC version in my LST2 and have run it in the Revo as well and it is a great motor. In the LST2 geared slightly above 60 it never got over 145. This is in 90+ degree heat with 90+ percent humidity.

I think for you and what you want the phoenix is the right ESC to run on 12s until CC comes out with the HV Monsters. Of course you can always look at the higher voltage MGM's as well. They are expensive but very solid controllers. Startup is not as smooth as the Mamba but if you are going for speed that will hardly matter in the long run.

If you really want to run all day long at 80 mph, you will really need a good esc and motor.

While the brushless record for a mt was done with a neu 1521 i really don't expect that setup to run for long. A good finned 1527 with a fan is probably the minimum... The 1527 being nearly twice as strong as a 1515, i would certainly consider the 8mm shaft option...

As for esc maybe a castle hydra hv?. If you want a true car esc that can handle lot of power and money is no object then a schulze 40.160 is certainly a potent esc.

Unfortunately Schulze's warranty is useless though since they have so many rules and always say everything was user error. I would take MGM over Schulze any day. I would also not run the hydra as it is meant to be watercooled. The phoenix has been used quite a but with a pistix adapter with great success.

Ok, so a MGM esc + neu 1527 on 12S will be good , i will not only do speed runs, but i want at least 70mph on everyday setup.

And may swap gearing to see its full potential. :)

Any MGM model you guys recommend? any link where to get them? i am very good for nitro but im really beginning with the electric... but i learn fast normaly hehe

Thx for the advices, truely appreciated.
:)

Been their done that.....

1521 1.5Don 12S on a XTM MMT. Bigger, heavier then a LST and the biggest MT you can buy that is 1/8th scale. That motor NEVER got hot and the ESC never got hot doing speed runs. The fastest pass on camera was a 80.4mph.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ERY9_...e=channel_page

Rc-Monster sells MGM controllers.

I remember seeing your vids Jzemaxx, good job!, im also registered on the fast-rc forum, dunno if you remember me.... i dont visit the forum a lot. hehe

What ESC you were running on 12S ?
I want to use teh setup on a truggy, like a CRT or Mutilator from Ofna.


Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Mike :)

If i'm remembering jzemaxx's thread right he was using an HV-110 or a Turnigy unit i think.

As for finding the pistix, they are for sale again.
here's a link:

http://www.mikessubworks.com/page1.html

just look to the left under electronics and select speed controls and there it is.


my biggest concern for the 80mph speeds would be tires at that point. i always thought phaltliners were good for about 75mph but i blew one of those to pieces just the other day. i've got some foams on order, but they're not here yet.

http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...t/HPIM5883.jpg

i didn't have the gps on it but i'm guessing i was well over 70 geared 36/25 on 6S. i replaced that one and proceeded to blow another 3 so i'm done with the phaltliners i think.

here's the foams i'm gonna try:

http://www.imexrc.com/servlet/the-25...M-GREEN/Detail

Thx man :)

I tried these IMEX, i got one foam coming off the rim, and other one ungluing, but once you reglue them it seem alright, didnt had that much time to really test though... ive hit a wall at 65mph with my revo and broke 3 of them.... lol

There is no point to 70mph everyday. there really isnt- its great to show off- but as soon as the truggy body gets air under it at that speed- thats a wrap.


Going for the balls out approach- building an overkill setup just because you can doesnt make you any cooler- just means that your going to spend more money on parts to replace in the long run.. build it for a reasonable purpose and spend money on more or better batteries and such.

I like overpowered truck, its not to show off, really.... :)

I respect that you think its useless, but i will not invest in brushless (batteries, charger, esc, motor etc..) if i cant do anything better than my nitro.

I could run my nitro revo at 66 all day long with wheelies, no overheating.

Thats why i want a good step higher. 70 isnt fast for me.
A good setup with a truggy will handle good at 70.

Can a Neu 1515 1y with the MMM on 6S handle 65mph all day with bashing without overheating?

That would really be the minimum requirement for me...

:)

I'd go atleast a 1521 because that speed you want is geared pretty high.

Did you gps or radar your revo? 66mph all day long would take a serious nitro motor, and usually at those speeds second gear melts. That's with an o.s. .28, so you must have had some serious motor.

Usually brushless rigs are geared for one thing. Bashing, racing, or speed runs. I suggest carrying two pinions and gearing up for speed runs and gearing down for bashing. Not doing that is why your buddy is overheating.

Yes i radared it, with 2 different radar, i had a pretty high gearing, the engine was a Picco .28 modified by ABmods, drag mod....

It produce more power than a stock OS28. But i also have modified OS 28.

For sure i could not hold it at 66mph for an entire tank lol it would overheat, but i could do what i am looking for in the brushless, its just i want a brushless that can do better

thats why i targeted 80, i can live with 70, may be 65, but 60mph is not worthing it for me , we had a truggy geared for 55mph and it was pulling wheelies with a modified OS28.


I just thought you could have a wider range of power with the brushless, seeing how strong the Neu 1515 1.5d was in my friend's revo even geared for 65-70, it could flip from a standing still, but overheated....

Thats what i cant get over, a nitro will just ,not pull it and then overheat, the electric will pull it and overheat... :)

Like i said i always like to get more power than i need, its my fun.

Thx for all the tips, i will think about it and may still go brushless.

Mike :)

you can do it. 1521, hv110, pistix and 12s. The only thing is the cc hv110 has no brakes and makes mechanical brakes necessary. An MGM has brakes.

You friends revo was just pushing the limits geared that high.

A 1521 will handle what you want no problem, for extra insurance step up to a 1527.

Your english is fine! You speak much better than many stupid americans.

Thx man! appreciated!

:)

Absolutely no offense to you, this is just my opinion.....

COMPLETELY USELESS, RETARDED, BORING, AND EXPENSIVE :whistle:

again, just my opinion. :oops:

and ya, your lower speed drive ability is going to be in the toilet; you would need large battery for sure.

What some of you may dont understand is, i posted here to know if its possible, if it will overheat or not, its not like im trying to tell you its possible, im here to know if it is, so telling me you would not like the setup ....is useless...

If you guys think it would not work, and overheat, i will not do it, simple as that...

:)

i don't get it. why are you guys giving this guy so much guff?

a few years ago, i heard the same BS when people were talking about dropping 6S in their e-maxxs. it can't be done. it's too fast. it's useless. blah blah blah......i think it was the laziness of people not having the technology handed to them on a platter that's making them so against it.

because when the MMM came out, you saw tons of 70+mph trucks with tons of people saying how great it was. the bashers were all but hushed.

can it be done? hell yeah it can be done. I've seen ofna buggies over 100mph with the same method. get the pistix and the hv-110 and drop some cash on some 30-40C lipos and you'll be golden.

if i'm not mistaken, Nic Case went 161mph with that same ESC. it'll provide the means for sure. the 1527 or 1521 will provide the power. just make sure you keep in mid you might need a custom motor mount because the mounting holes are larger spaced apart. Rc-monster Mike might be able to fabricate one for you if you ask him. (he's also the owner of the site)

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/products.php?cat=42

Also, those motors usually require an 8MM bore pinion. however, offshore electronics rc can special order them with 5mm shafts. it could take several weeks to order though...they also carry the pistix.

http://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pro...rod=msw-pistix



instead of saying how retarted it is, encourage the guy...geez ....jzmaxx did over 80 with one of the heaviest MT that's available. an 80mph truggy is definately do-able running cool.
good luck Over_revO

hey hey hey, I never said he shouldn't do it.... I said that was my opinion. :neutral:

No one said 6s was ever too fast btw, the only reason people said that, is because everyone used 2000Kv plus Fiegao motors... which obviously, is too fast and hot for those motors.

"instead of saying how retarted it is, encourage the guy...geez ....jzmaxx did over 80 with one of the heaviest MT that's available. an 80mph truggy is definately do-able running cool."

Okay, you're right.... good luck man on getting to 80mph, hope you don't crash at those speeds and destroy all the expensive equipment in the truck. :whistle:


Alright, instead of using different controllers, what about using twin motor system? Maybe dual MMM running 1512 Neu motors? Or maybe a better option, dual MMM running T8 motors? Like 6s on the Truggy 1550Kv model? That way, it's not overpowered, still has more than enough power to get to 80mph with wheelies, and will run relatively cool. Just another option.

I tried a couple speeds runs with my CRT truggy yesterday. 6s 2200 geared 25/48 with buggy ratio diffs, taped holeshots tires. The best I got was 59.6mph without the front in flying high. Its hard to keep those front wheels down.


Good luck man! Make sure you get some video!