working with titanium ??
 

How is titanium to work on?
Easy to drill? Cut threads? On a lathe?
Special tools required?

Anybody some experience on this?

Thank you in advanve.
DAF

titanium itself is rather a soft metal, it can catch fire while machining. When in a alloy, the alloy becomes very strong, and hard to cut, difficult to work with. The alloy 6AL-4V is very common I used to have many parts machined with this alloy and it took several months to perfect our run times, speed and tooling, nice stuff, just not for every one to work with

Diamond tipped tools are a must with titanium alloys, tungsten carbide will last no time at all. I think you will also struggle to drill through it with normal drill bits (High speed steel). Don't know much else about it, but my school workshop don't manufacture anything out of titanium, cos its too tough.

Titanium is a PITA to work on..

I've got some titanium rods, but it's so darn tough.. with a simple rasp, it's almost impossible to get some off. you need a high speed dremel to machine it a bit.

You need a drill press to make holes in it, it's a disaster, no wonder titanium parts are that expensive

Titanium really isn't needed in a RC application high quality aluminum is strong enough and much cheaper and easier to work with. Titan parts are more for bling factor We have had as many failures with titanium components as with aluminum and the weight factor is not much different.

for skids titanium is superior to aluminum.

titanium is not for the bling, it's more about the strength. what makes you say that aluminium and titanium weight/strength factor is about the same?

They are pretty similar. Aluminium is about half the weight of titanium, and 7000 series aluminium alloys are pretty strong. Titanium is better for skids (as you said), its much much harder and can absorb impacts. Aluminium is better for structural parts (bulkheads) as its much lighter.

Ti skids - Now that i would be interested in - I found a local guy that says he has a friend that is in joint replacement and has a bunch of titanium that i could get - Now if i could figure out how to incorporate or transforn a titanium knuckle used for human beings into a knuckle for my Gmaxx - id be all set...:027:

What parts do you have in mind exactly?
Serum is right, ti is a PITA to work with. I needed to remove some material from my hardcore revo skid, for my center diff spur, and it was very difficult to drill/dremel etc. I was able to do it with regular drill bits but it was definetly a PITA to only remove just a little bit of material. :026:

Having had componentry manufactured in both 7000 series aluminum and 6AL-4V the strength is very similiar in smaller parts our engineers never understood why we had to have our components fabricated in Titan, except for the fact that the general public liked the thought that it was somehow far superior, and it is superior in many aspects. It is a personal choice myself I wouldn't try and manufacture my own custom parts with it.

High tech engineering;

who said titanium was hard to work with.. it just takes the appropriate tools.. lol

http://www.stepinsidedesign.com/asse...cons/13164.jpg

Titanium skids is one of my best buys for the E-Maxx, amazing. The problem with Titanium though, if you do manage to bend it (very unlikely) it won't go back!

Ti. is almost like a memory material. If you don't heat it up and bend it, it will almost bend back.

I bend titanium hinge pins all the time. So I changed back to stainless steel, and havn't had a problem since.

does ti scratch up easilY?

No. Compared to must other metals (aluminium, steel) it is very hard and won't scratch easily.

Too bad spring steel is heavy. It would make the ideal material in a lot of applications. Done right, it will flex a little and return back to default. Those hard materials like Ti are hard to bend, but when they do, might as well replace it! Of course, sometimes no amount of flex is desired, which is good for those materials.

It would be nice to have an inexpensive material that was a breeze to work on (cut, drill, and bend), and then "cure" it using common household resources to get it to be whatever hardness dedired. I guess similar to how clay works. :)

Its not difficult to temper steel, all you need in a gas flame. Heat it to about 250C and watch as it goes through different colours (first yellow through to blue). If you stop when its yellow the steel will be very hard but brittle, and blue equals soft and springy. Afterwards just quench it in cold water. Easier said than done though.........

Exactly. Not too many hobbyists have heast sources capable of 482F, unless an oven would work. And then, I can't imagine by better half being keen on me heating metals in our oven. :)

I meant something really easy to work on like Aluminum, but able to easily treat to get the hardness/flexibility desired.

7075 isnt a bad option. im pretty sure its the strongest aluminum although its harder to work with than the standard 6061.

To harden steel properly, you need steel with a high grade of carbon.

And the best part of 700C!! Tempering comes after hardening, and alters how hard/brittle or soft/springy the steel will be - incase anyone was confused.

Im confused - thought this was about Ti - :005: :005:

I think its just a general materials discussion. We never stay on topic anyway......:rolleyes:

topicstarter himself has got quite a reputation on thread hijacking, ever since this still is about metal, and not about him dancing naked on the table, it's not too much off-topic.. We could elaborate a bit more on the titanium, i am curious, what Daniel had in mind, to make out of titanium.

Well, here is the good news! My sweetheart promised me a mill and a lathe, once i finished all the jobs in and around the house, so i won't be much online for a few years.. LOL, nononoooo i will have a mill and a lathe in a few months.! Perhaps in time, before you get to Holland Daniel!

Aint that the truth - :005:

You getting CNC or manual Serum. I would love to get my own CNC lathe and mill, but we've got them at school anyway. :D:D:D

Manual first, but i am going to buy one, that can be upgraded to CNC for sure! i already collected a few stepper motors for this.. but i can do enough in my opinion with a manual. (and a rotating plate )

I don't agree that Ti is for bling with RC vehicles.It is not used in place of aluminium in any RC application i can think of other than plates(apart from the cast Ti arms which are many many times stronger than anything you can make in aluminium)It's properties are nothing like aluminium and are far more like a lighter super steel,and that's where it mainly applies to RC, replacing steel parts with a lighter alternative.I don't think i'll be changing from lunsford,hardcore,flextek parts to aluminium anytime soon,i perfer to combine plastics and titanium to build the most durable chassis capable of absorbing large amounts of shock.Aluminium is ideal for when stiffness and lightweight is needed but is not a durable material.
Apart from being the most respected material in engineering,all the best machines are made from titanium,the shuttle,concorde,blackbird.Can't think of any aluminium parts on F1 cars either off the top of my head,carbon,magnesium,titanium being the materials of choice.

There i feel better now.

Amen gustav.

it is just too expensive to work with in RC..

a bulkhead of titanium could be made much lighter/stronger than aluminum, but i would change the design to keep the costs down

Don't mistake ti being light weight. Those 3,5 mm ti skid's from GA wheigh allot, deffinatly not lighter if you copy the design in 3,5 mm 7075. So makeing an entire bulkhead out of ti isn't gonna be lightweight. Beside's, who need's such a thing, we got trouble destroying ga's or dace's. And they proof to be pretty darn reliable!(try to strip a good tapped thread in 7075)

Sneeck......

like i said, i would change the design..

the bulk could be made from WAY less material, lets see what weights more. ;)

here is the deal; titanium is relatively stronger and lighter than aluminum.

It's bulky allright, no doubt about that.

Would be quite neat to see one out of titanium for sure.

IMO, Ti definitely has its place in RC. It's a nice material. Strong, as we all know, and the low scratch factor is a nice bonus.

As for what parts I have in mind, well, we'll just have to see. No sense in bragin' around when I'm not sure yet if I can manage it. But I will sure post my results here.
I found Ti raw material to be rather expensive, and I guess that's why we don't see it too often in RC applications.

One thing I can say for sure, I love my Ti skids on my Maxx, and the center shafts of my first Revo also seem to pretty strong yet light.

Yeah Serum, I'm sure we will have something to do when I finally make it to the Netherlands, mill or not. But good to hear anyway. Tools at home are nice.

Gustav, I'm sorry but I have to disagree with you there. Aluminium is widely used in all sorts of planes, including the most modern fighter jets. I can't believe your trying to claim that not one piece of aluminium was used on Concorde -that's argueably one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Aluminium is an extremely vital material in the world of engineering - used FAR more extensively than titanium.
Aluminium has been kicking around for so long, engineers know so much about it that nowadays, and rather than using it as a pure metal they can combine it with carbon fibre and complex plastics (skins of planes). Aluminium and carbon fibre are used extensively in F1 car engines, and also in the chassis.
I agree with you about titanium being a very respected material in the world of engineering, but to pass off aluminium like you did is not correct. Aluminium is the most common ore in the earths crust so whether we like it or not it is here to stay, and as time goes on we will discover more and more that can be done with it.

Hope I didn't cause too much of a disturbance! :)

EEr,i was saying no such thing.I can see how my use of the word 'either' in that sentence mislead you.(sorry for that but simply not what i meant to imply).I was not saying that those machines do not use any aluminium at all, and the only one of those machines i said i can't think of any use of Aluminium in, is an F1 car, and i can't.(Not in aircraft alloy form anyway,which was the comparison being made-not meaning the element is not present in other alloys-Ti alloys have Al in them for example),they use magnesium alloys for the block,uprights,wheels etc.I certainly was not claiming that not one piece of aluminium was used on concorde.

I was not trying to pass off the use of aluminium at all, i was merely objecting to the use of titanium in RC being branded unneccessary and mainly for bling,just because someone can't be bothered.Of course we all use and rely on aluminium,it's practical and easy to work with,light and stiff.If anything i was trying to seperate the comparison between the two,as there properties are not at all similar,used in different applications to aluminium as a lighter alternative to steel.(read my entire post)

The 'all the best machines' comment was meant to imply that when people want to build a special machine,such as Dafni seems to be thinking of one of the best trucks out there,then inevitably we will look to select the most ideal material in each area.My point was and still is, that aluminium is not always the most ideal and Ti is far from unnesessary.

Peace.

I simply never said that!

You are quite right to say Al based alloys are widely used in F1 engines (but i doubt there's any HE30,7075 etc that we use).The materials are governed by the sports regulations,not something NASA have to deal with.

This is interesting,http://www.newsonf1.com/f1regs/2006f1materials.htm It's the 2006 regulations for engine materials.Not as simple as saying Al this or Mg that.

Papa.., bring on the popcorn..

nah,i bored of that now,no need for popcorn.:007:

I'd like to know what Daf has planned.

On the subject of aluminium,anyone know the best way to bond it.Araldyte?
And also bonding titanium to aluminium.I know they bond aluminium in aircraft all the time,and the elise chassis is bonded so it must be possible.Any thoughts?