HPI Vorza Flux... Hot Bodies Ve8... E-Revo...
 

Hey guys, I've got a bit of a dilemma and was wondering if any of you could hopefully offer some advice...

Anyway heres the situation:

I currently own a brushless E-Revo with the MMM 2200 combo in it. I am running it on 6s lipo. Lets just say that i've never been really impressed with it from the day I got it. It seems to lack power that is displayed by other E-Revo owners. It can't do backflips. And no matter what I do to it, I can't get it past 51mph on the radar. People on the Traxxas forum have gotten theirs passed 70mph with the same setup as me.

Basically I am a speed freak. I love my r/c's to go fast. If they arn't fast, I get bored quick. I like the E-Revo because it is a monster truck and can therefore ride over any terrain. But it is a very heavy truck, and is just not fast enough for my liking.

So, the other night I was browsing the net and decided to have a look on HPI's website. Sure enough they have some new products, and one of them caught my eye:

http://www.hpieurope.com/kit-info.ph...103421&lang=en

The HPI Vorza. I was practically staring at it for about 3 minutes. It just looks amazing. I've never had a buggy/truggy before, only monster trucks. I do a small amount of racing, but mainly bashing and speed runs in my park.

I also came across the Hot Bodies Ve8, which is pretty much the same as the Vorza except I'd have to buy the MMM 2200 combo separately.

http://www.hotbodiesonline.com/kits/en/67535/

So, I'm thinking about selling my E-Revo and buying one of these. My reason for doing so is mainly for speed. Take the Vorza, for example. It's a buggy, therefore it should be a lot lighter than the E-Revo yet it will have the same power system in it. So theoretically it should be a lot faster, because you can gear it much higher.
However, when you scroll down to the bottom of the HPI Vorza page, they give a list of speeds:

http://www.hpieurope.com/graphics/ki...3421/006_f.jpg

According to HPI, the Vorza will only do 51mph out of the box with 6s lipo? Thats what i'm getting with my E-Revo, and thats a heafty monster truck! How can this be right?

My second concern with buying this is the strength of the car. As I said before, i've never owned a buggy. I've heard that truggy's are meant to be stronger than monster trucks, but buggy's arn't. Is this true?

My third concern is ground clearance. It looks pretty small, and therefore looks like it has limited ground clearance. I sometimes bash in grass, which is fairly short but grass nonetheless. I also bash in wooded areas, and am just wondering if the Vorza would be able to cope with that.

And a general concern for both the HPI and Hot Bodies: the batteries seem to be on one side only. Two 3s lipos on one side will surely weight it down - won't the weight distribution be mucked up? And I can't seem to see a transmission on either one of them, does this mean there is no slipper clutch?


ANYWHOO - really sorry for the long post, but I felt the more info I try and squeeze in there, the better. Either that, or you just read the first title and then skip to the end, in which case you are just reading this!

Cheers!

Hi Rev,

I can't answer all of your questions, since I don't own a buggy. But I think I can help you with this one.

"According to HPI, the Vorza will only do 51mph out of the box with 6s lipo? Thats what i'm getting with my E-Revo, and thats a heafty monster truck! How can this be right?"

This is just a difference in gearing.

You could take that same 6S 2200kv Monster Combo and gear it for a top speed of 30mph. But It's not going to use the Combo to it's full potential.

Then again, you could gear the Monster Combo for 100mph, but that doesn't mean it's going to do it. The System will most likely cog and overheat, that is, IF your batteries stand up to the huge amp draw.

Total Amp Draw and Heat buildup are a couple things that limit us speed freaks.

Thanks for your reply sikeston34m. I use a pair of NeuEnergy 30/60C lipos - top quality stuff. I'm running 22/62 gearing in my E-Revo which, according to the speed calculator, shoud be getting me around 60mph. Even with this gearing in a heavy truck, the lipo's barely get warm.

As the buggy is smaller and lighter, I should be able to gear it high with out worrying about anything overheating. But it gets me that HPI say you can't achieve anything higher than around 64mph unless you switch to the 2650 motor, which I swear isn't meant to be run above 5s lipo...

Recalibrate your radio to the esc. Make sure all of your throttle trims are centered and that you do not have any expo, etc set. You may find you were not running at full throttle.

NeuEnergy makes really good Lipos. What Mah are they? 5000mah?

Ummm........HPI has been known to publish misinformation before. The way I look at most gearing suggestion publication is:

They have to come up with the "rules of thumb" for all the noobs to live by. LOL

The 2650 motor being capable of more overall power than the 2200kv is false. The 2200kv motor is bigger! Period.

There are alot of factors that determine just how much power a motor can/will deliver, all with the temperature showing the final limits.

1. Rotor size. Diameter, length and N scale strength of the Magnets used.

2. Efficiency. How well it converts electrical power to kinetic energy. You will see, most motors are rated with an efficiency % value. If a Motor's rating is 90%, and you're pushing 1000 watts through it, then you have 100 watt soldering iron inside and you must have a way to shed that heat before it lets the smoke out.

Just because a motor has a higher kv rating, doesn't mean it's capable of more "watts of total power".

Is the 2650kv motor a higher "speed" motor? Yes, but........see where the misunderstanding comes in?

I've recalibrated my radio several times, and all MMM settings are on maximum.

Yup the lipo's are 5000mAh.

I completely understand the differences between motors, i.e. between the 2200 and 2650. I would never get the 2650, why would I? It's less efficient than the 2200, and less powerful.
I don't understand why HPI think you need this motor, why not gear up the more powerful 2200?

Check your slipper cluch for slippage. And make sure it isn't any binding.

All your MMM settings are on maximum?

Punch control should be turned down to improve acceleration, timing would be best at about the 2nd or 3rd notch up, and start power only needs to be on low, unless you are really geared to the moon.

62/22 isnt all that high really, I would bump it up 62/24 and see how the temps do (esc, motor & lipos).

Yeah when I say maximum, I mean maximum in their respective full-power settings.

Slipper is as tight as she'll go.

I tried 24/54 gearing at some point, but all I got was temp issues and slightly reduced top end, with reduced torque.

24/54 is rather too high, 62/22 isnt quite enough- got to find the happy middle ground by playing with the gearing more. The physical maximum gearing the MMM system can pull is around 65mph based on early test results wheh the system came out, so there is room for a higher top speed in your setup, but if you gear too high all you will get is what you found- higher temps and lower speed/power as the motor cant pull the gearing you ask of it..

A friend suffered the exact same problem with his e-revo...it never got over 50, no matter what he did

He ended up buying a new 2200 & all was good again. I suspect he overheated it at some point although he swears he didn't...I guess it's possible he just got a Friday motor?

I've never seen a Vorza in the flesh but the 8ight is a proven performer with ample spares available. If I were getting a buggy, I'd be conservative & follow this direction...they will do 100 with the right setup!

The 8ight-E is too expensive for me, and I dont really want the Losi electronics - it can only handle 5s.

suicideneil, I worked up the gears, I didnt just go straight to 24/54, I tried others out in between. But i just couldn't get much past 51mph no matter what I tried. With 22/62 gearing, the system gets fairly hot. Motor stays around 140F, and the MMM fan comes on at frequent intervals.

I think I'm gonna get the Vorza, because the battery tray on the Ve8 looks too small.

Haha...er yeah, should qualify my post...

I'd buy a roller & use the RCM mount with the Losi tray & install a Nue or Castle with a MMM/RX8

Have a look a Dwight Schrute's fine examples, he builds nice vehicles of all types

Oh right, I gotchya now. Weirdness....

1/8 buggies do seem to make nicer road missiles if thats your thing, and they are definately more aerodynamic which helps alot- just glue those tires on well... :lol:

I'm just wondering how tough buggies are. I know truggy's are meant to be stronger than monster trucks, but I dont really know about buggies. They don't have upper A-arms... I don't really know enough about them.

While they don't have the ground clearance of a monster truck or truggy, they can take a heck of a lot of abuse. I would say they're as durable as most anything out there and way more durable than a Revo.

You need to get to a track more often :lol:
Buggies do have upper suspension arms, but only in the front. Truggies are the same. From what I've experienced, buggies can take more abuse because of their stubby suspension arm length in comparison to a truggy but they seem to be easier to make mistakes with because they're not as forgiving as a truggy when going over jumps or big bumps.

I've seen this issue before as well with a CC2200 motor not performing to specs. I'd have a talk with castle and see if they can replace it. It might not be an ESC or radio problem but only way to check is to reset the radio to default settings, rebind, and recalibrate the ESC end points when you turn it on. If that fails, investigate the motor.

Thanks for the replies guys, I really appreciate it!

Snipin_Willy, you say buggies have upper A-arms in the front?

http://www.hpiracing.com/graphics/ki...allery/001.jpg

From the look of that picture, it seems as though there is two turnbuckles (or something) replacing the top A-arm front and back.
The Revo is a pretty durable truck, I haven't broken anything major on it yet.

I've literally checked everything on the Revo, like the MMM and radio settings etc - nothing works.
But I can't really send Castle my MMM combo because technically there is nothing wrong with it, it still pushes my Revo to 50mph and makes it flip on its lid...

Well it seems the Ve8 is out of the question, the battery box is 140mm long, but my lipo's are 155mm long. Dang.

Suspenion design varies ALOT between manufacturers- some brands are rather spindly looking, others are built like tanks, literally, so no chance of them falling apart in all but the worst crashes. I wold look in the buggie section and see what you like- as for lipo trays, you can always modify or replace the stock item; looking at the Vorsa above, you could put a longer tray in the stocker's place, then relocate the esc above the center diff for example- that doesnt have the biggest chassis ever I must admit. Look around though, lots of research to be done before getting too despondant.... :smile:

Just a thought about deciding between the buggy and your current Revo: It doesn't seem wise to just buy the first interesting vehicle you see. Take your time. Also, it could be possible to get your REVO to handle with a little more agility (similar to a buggy). Here some things that could help- truggy tires, sway bars, thicker shock oil, possible P3 rockers, tougher springs, maybe even a lower pushrod setting or less preload.
I don't think a buggy will like cruising through the grass at high speed as much as a REVO if that's what your going for.

I would try and get your motor replaced if you are certain everything is set properly on the ESC and it is calibrated to your radio properly. I think selling the whole truck just because of lack of 60+ mph runs is silly. Also, if you are geared to 60+ your truck won't do standing backflips.

If you do decide to sell the E-Revo I would recommend getting a Hong Nor X1CR (Jammin in the USA, Hong Nor in the UK) They are built incredibly well and are very very strong, then covert it to electric yourself.

Thanks for the replies.

Rusteh101, I might consider sending the motor and esc back to castle, but more than likely i will just sell the whole thing. I have never been impressed with the e-revo since i bought it, and this is just an excuse to move on.

At the moment, i am geared 18/65 which is about 43mph theoretically. I'm getting mid 30's, and in the 20's on short grass. It can just about do a wheelie.

I don't have a lot of money to spend on a new car, basically all I have to spend is what I get from selling my e-revo, and Blade 400 helicopter, which will probably amount to around £500.

Topspeedtimmy, i'm not bothered about the handling of either vehicle. I don't race, only bash. I am just interested in speed as that's what gets my adrenaline flowing.

what I don't understand is, the E-Revo brushless edition and the HPI Vorza use exactly the same power system. Now, with the same batteries, surely the Vorza will be faster than the E-Revo because it's smaller and lighter. I don't understand how the E-Revo can be faster.

Tire diameter- the revo uses somehing like 5.6-5.8" ones, the buggy uses smaller sized items (dont know the actual size, but something like ~5" or less maybe?). With the same gearing, the truck will be faster- on paper atleast...

the Vorza uses 17mm hexes, so Revo wheels could be put on