WTF is wrong with some people?
 

Seriously, Its MY tax paying money that has to pay for dumb, lazy and just plain rude people who pull crap like this. I'm sorry, hate me all you want but I have to say

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...on/tiffany.jpg

Me or the girlfriend are gonna get our repo organs shut down/removed so we don't become a burden on society like so many of these morons do. Plus we just don't want kids period, we enjoying be selfish with our time and money together

http://bostonherald.com/news/regiona...ainst_my_will/

That Duggar lady with the 19 kids said about having children, "they are god's gift, like a flower. How can you have too many flowers".

Well, she's not the smartest lady, even a florist stops at a dozen. And what if there were no corn, only flowers. Are you going to eat flowers babymaker lady?

So many people think the government is like a lotto, and they deserve welfare, and don't see anything wrong with living on someone else's dime.

Appalling story freeze. I'm all for sterilization after two, and you're partners kid(s) count towards your total. Or better yet, sterilization at birth and you have to earn fertility drugs.

I personally think everyone should be sterilized right when they are born, and then, if they want, it can be reversed later on when they come of age (I say at least 25 years old). But, they have to pay for the procedure (to discourage the freeloaders), and they must pass a competancy and financial responsibility screening.

I think global population is going to be an issue in the next 50-100 years. The earth can only hold so many people and population growth is expodential. I learned in biology that it will reach a carrying capacity. There will probalby be extreme famine, war, pollution,, or an apocolypse.

I say we follow china's example and start a child limit. Maybe if every couple is allowed two babies, the world would be a better place. If you didn't want children you could give or sell the rights to have your children to another family who can afford it.

You know the worst part...it seems it's usually the trash of society that has an easy time popping out kids by the carload. Then you have some folks that are responsible members of society that have trouble having kids. Such a shame.

Folks like the one in this article make welfare seem like such a waste. The sad part part is that the govt handing out $ like it grows on trees only breeds more of the parasites/beggars.

Funny, when ever I or anyone else suggested what BrianG said on another forum I frequent, you always end up with comments comparing the idea to the Nazi regime of sterilizing 'non-desireables'. I dunno, hitler was an evil bastard, but reducing the number of freeloaders and benefit scroungers buy limiting the number of children they can have doesnt sound like the worst thing ever, especially when those people only have kids purely for the benefits ££$$ and free council house, having never worked a day in their lives. Once such lovely lady in the UK has had every olne of her 13/14 kids taken away and put into care one after the other (after giving birth) as she and her partner were concidered unfit parents- unemployed and living in filth.

I have nothing against people having lots of children, or being in a deprived area and having kids ( I grew up on a council estate :P ), but using kids as a means to an end is unethical, probably why the a large number of kids from deprived areas dont go to school and run around stabbing eachother so often = parents couldnt care less about them in real terms.

While I cam agree overpopulation will decrease the quality of life for the living, I do not agree with the argument that a given # of people is not sustainable. Earth has vast overlooked and wasted resources, it comes down to the responsibility of various nations' governments and corporations, and people will always come dead LAST.

I get called 'selfish' occasionally for not wanting children.

Well let's look at that closer, shall we?

I am selfish for assuming my offspring's quality of life will NOT be better than mine.
I am selfish for not wanting to enslave myself for 18-45 years.
For that matter I will never understand what motivates some people to breed, when they have given themselves NO time to find out who they are, or what THEY truly want.
NOT what society deems normal and appropriate. Blind sheep just following the smell of previous lamb's defecation, most people seem to me, all too willing to lead the cookie-cutter life.

In short, I'm not parent material. And I KNOW it. But way waaaaaaay too many parents find that out a little too late.

It's not out of any dislike for kids, or any weird dysfunctions, but just out of my general opinion of life on planet Shit, errr Earth.

I do wish more people would think a little longer about it... for you good parents out there who KNOW you are good parents, big kudos... takes some serious dedication.

I totally agree with this, just think everyone could shag like rabbits and not have a worry in the world because if everyone is shoot blanks, no one is taken the hit. :yes: (that inculdes the gov. and all the taxpaying citizens)

While the wife and I do plan to have KID (I want 1 and she wants 2...) I do agree that not having kids sure sounds like a great way to save money and time. Hell, I am putting off building my next house cause I just do not think my wife and I will have enough time to run our business, raise a child and oversee a house build. I do agree with BG, something needs to be done to stop the breeding. I feel like the earth is getting close to max capacity, especially if everyone wants to live like people in america do. I see no reason to diminish the quality of my life because some idiot in another country can't seem to understand how the tab A slot B thing works...

Just read the article... Another freeloader who is so bored that she has kids to fill the void... What an idiot. I think euthanasia would be better than sterilization for this one...

Yep, children should be considered a privilege not a right

Though not sure where all the minimum wages earners would come from if you scraped off the Epsilon Minuses from society...?

Edit: I have a relative who thinks her reproductive organ is a clown car, they're running out of 'normal' names

The simple fact is that parenting is hard work and takes effort. Most people who are parents refuse to do this which is why their kids are annoying little brats pining for attention. My wife and I work with our son everyday even when we would rather just say screw it and let him do what he wants. It annoys me to no end when people try and tell us how lucky we are that our kid is so good. I can guarantee that he has as much potential to be a PIA just like the next kid, we just don't let him get away with it. When he goes to far he also gets spanked, not beaten, spanked, there is a huge difference (although the whiny libs can't figure that out). The funny thing is that despite our semi strict discipline he is always happy and smiling, go figure. According to the latest psycho babblers he should be miserable and hate himself and us too, although it's generally the psycho babblers kids that have the most issues. I am in no way against psychology, my wife has a degree in it after all.

Anyway, people should have a plan when the have kids. How they will raise them, feed them, discipline them, and so on. From the second they are born they are learning. You can't wait until their 5 and start trying to teach them things.

As for the Duggers, how can anyone fault them. Those are some of the most useful and best behaved children I have ever seen. They all seem to have their crap together and I don't see anyone in that family living off my tax money so more power to them. I will bet money that every one of their children will be a productive member of society.

If you want kids and have a plan, then go for it. If you don't then don't. It's not my position to judge people who do not want children. I am much more in favor of that than morons popping out unseen numbers of useless little urchins who bring nothing productive to this planet.

Anyway, off my soap box now.

Good god no. You'd have to cut back even more on r/c.

Would have saved a lawsuit!

that's funny:lol:

THIS

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m...aneklapwe0.gif

ok im playing with fire on this one....


I think some of yall are a bit harsh to judge people in hard times...deciding what THEY need to do...though in her case i think she needs to get slapped a few times until she comes to her senses.

Now...i do agree that with the economy this bad and getting worse every day people need to really take into consideration if saving $1 for a condom is worth a $10k hospital bill and thousands of tax payers money. We (US people for now) are in a very interesting financial time in this country. Where the government should be focusing tax money on getting the national debt under control, but instead has to borrow money to fund the programs...and put more programs into place.

With our national debt rolling past 12 trillion and growing at 2 trillion a year, its a matter of time until people stop lending this country money and government programs will stop....im gonna stop here cuz i can go on for 34 pages if i have to...and i KNOW you guys wanna hear that:whistle:

From a ethics standpoint, if the doctors truly did a procedure she did not consent, it was wrong PERIOD.

When I think of the feeloading type of baby makers, and them overpopulating the world, I think of the movie Idiocracy.

Yeah, it may be a bit harsh, but I honestly think it is needed. As far as judging people: if it looks like a duck, acts like a duck, and quacks like a duck...it's a duck. I just call it like I see it. I just have a problem with all the freeloaders who think they are "entitled" to gov't help because they don't want to take responsibility for their actions/condition. Instead of being a temporary "helping hand" in a time of need, gov't aid becomes a way of life. Why work when I can get everything for free? It just seems that integrity and self-respect is becoming more and more rare. Yeah, maybe a lot of us don't need the "sterilization plan", but we are responsible adults who assume responsibility for our actions and don't want to live on someone else's dime. But applying the same policy for everyone eliminates any claim of discrimination because of age, sex, religion, ethnicity, income, etc - everyone is treated fairly. So, instead of the gov' just giving out handouts to any sob story, they should make the criteria more strict and also provide a clear and definite timeline. None of this "my pinky hurts so I can't work" or "I'll just keep popping out kids to get benefits" bullshit.

As far as that useless piece of garbage in the article is concerned, she needs to stop spreading her legs to any guy who feels like getting his wiener wet and start making the right decisions. If not for her, then for her kids' sake.

I can't resist these discussions, as you can tell from my avatar.

First off, I don't see why we can't have in place a policy where if you are on government assistance and you have 2 kids, that is it. The assistance amount won't go up from there. Here is VA it is staggering, the more kids the welfare people pop out the more they get. So with the 2 kid limit, you can have all you want and no one is infringing on your rights, but the tax payers don't have to keep paying for you spreading your legs. I also think this should apply to the men that father these children too. If you have 2 little ones linked to you, then any woman you get pregnant gets nothing unless she takes your worthless a$$ to court.

Second, as far as the Duggar's are concerned, I think it is great that they have such a big family. Before you criticize them, you should check out there life style. They pay cash for everything, they use a system similar to Dave Ramsey. They get no help from the government and I very seriously doubt that there children will end up like a lot of welfare kids, who are on "the system" themselves when they are old enough. I just can't think of the guy they subscribe too, but here is Dave's website to give you an idea of how they handle their finances.

http://www.daveramsey.com/

Third, the whole notion of over population is another one of these Global warming, the sky is falling things liberals come up with to scare people into doing what they want them too.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...pulation-myth/

Evil conservative rant over. :diablo:

http://www.smh.com.au/world/octomums...0105-lrlw.html

Convenient timing...

http://www.amazon.com/America-Alone-...2665196&sr=1-1

This is along the lines of the discussion of the effects of the population myth for those of you interested. Mark Steyn is a conservative, but this book does a good job at looking mathematically at the effects of a declining population rates in developed countries and the effects on the culture on countries and regions.

I am sure Neil can chime in on some of the problems arising in the UK from "peoples" moving there and not embracing the UK as there new home country.

While we're on this topic, here is an interesting video from youtube. It doesn't really start until 40 seconds, but the beginning may be interesting to read. Just something else to discuss.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

EDIT: I also want to point out that I don't agree or disagree with the message. I simply posted it because I though it would be interesting for discussion.

19 kids is ridiculous however they are raised or live. But they're happy, so more power to them. Plus if they ever do fall on hard times they could all live in Ma's vagina.

And as far as the population "myth"- looking only at numbers they are correct, but what about resources? Non renewable ones? And what about the floating garbage islands in the ocean? There are too many people!! We are depleting resources and ruining the environment. Chemicals in the ocean that come from decaying plastics have been linked to increasing numbers of birth defects and could possibly be the source for autism and other maladies. No matter how you spin it, we are a plague on the earth. Luckily, I'm smarter than the average bear, so me and mine will be just fine. For now.......

Yeah that is the gist of Steyn's book. He also looks at Japan, China, and Russia. Japan is like Spain and Greece, they just aren't having kids. China has way to many men and too few women, so they too will experience a decline in population. And well Russia is just plain sad. The men are dying very young by our standards in the West and the abortion rate is through the roof. They have little hope for a better future.

It is weird, but in the life times of most people on this board we could see multiple cultures just disappear.

Haha

19 is pretty ridiculous, someone is going to be starved of attention...if you apply some general unfounded statistics you'd say with 19 kids you're going to have issues with a couple of them before they leave home

Let's say Ma is awake 16hrs a day...that's less than 1hr p/child p/day. If a couple go off the rails, get sick or something else the 50mins p/child starts looking like 5-10mins p/day. It can't be a truly normal household can it?

I have no problem with that. Seems much better then having unresponsible parents who end up having the state take the kids and we end up paying for it all.

Are you serious, we are a plague on the Earth. Little melodramatic isn't it?

It is all point of view. For every problem there is a solution. For instance, the garbage you are concerned about is now being transformed in to diesel fuel.

http://www.coskata.com/

And as far as resources go, our country for years has had the ability to grow more food than anyone can imagine. Google "Goverment payment for farmers not to grow crops" Tons of stuff comes up. Most recently food shortages came from the stupid policies supporting ethanol. Corn in the gas tank means no corn on the table. A fine example of the government screwing things up.

And if you are talking about non-renewable resources, I assume you mean oil and gasoline. Yes that will run out one day, but new tech is allowing us to get to deposits that once upon a time that we could not. Not to mention that there are loads of places in the US that we are not allowed to get the oil. And even then, the US is the Saudi Arabia of coal, hundreds of years worth. Not to mention, the technology is there, it is just a gallon of gas is more bang for the buck than the alternatives. I would imagine, baring any bone head political moves, that as the alternatives either 1. become cheaper through advancement or 2. become cheaper as traditional oil becomes more expensive will replace it.



And yes, no one will argue the need to ensure chemicals and other pollutants stay out of the air and water. But I would say it is better now than it has been in a long time. We are on the verge of all kinds of medical and scientific break throughs that will correct mistakes we have made and ones we will make in the future. Gene therapy, nano technology, and vaccines the likes of which my grandmother and her generation could have never dreamed.

And as far as numbers go, that was why I posted a link to that book, most industrialized societies are going to experience a population decline in the coming decades.

But you are welcomed to your opinion. And I will leave it at that.

For those of you that think 19 kids is ridiculous, you have no view of history. And I find it your attitudes offensive, my grandmother was one of 16 kids that survived, 18 total. They lived and were born long before anyone ever thought of a social program in the U.S. They were farmers in the mountains of Virginia and there family was the norm for lots of people in many areas of the U.S. People were from big families, they worked the land and they worked together.

"I'd like to share a revelation i've had, during my time here. It came to me when I was trying to classify your species, and it turns out your not actually mammals. Every mammal on this planet develops an equilibrium with its environment but you humans do not. You multiply and spread and consume every every natural resource, and the only way you can survive is to spread to another area.

There is another organism that follows the same path. Do you know what is it? A virus..... You humans are a disease, a cancer of this planet, you are a plauge. And we.... are the cure"


http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_jLaEIqL6T8...gent-smith.jpg

http://www.universityofcalifornia.ed.../article/21161

Here is an article from UC Santa Barbara about oil just seeping out of the ocean floor.
This pocket is the equivalent of multiple Exxon Valdez spills.

So would this make the Earth a threat to it self?

May I remind you that things where ALOT different on the planet 150 years ago?

Yes of course I am aware of that. My point was roughly 100 years ago, they would be the norm in many places. And I would imagine that many people on this board come from families like this just a generation or so removed.

good idea IMO!!
would stop the @#$%'s over here getting pregnant at 14!!!!

76Bentley- Good food for thought on all of the subjects. I definitely didn't mean anything to be offensive.

You can spin anything. Think of uptight people today making a stink about child labor laws for your 18 child family of yesteryear. That shit wouldn't fly.

My only question is how do we get the uninformed to all think on a global level, so as a whole we can correct these problems. That's why I say we are a plague. The majority of people don't think outside their own box, and they over use, over indulge, pollute and procreate.

Shit, I can't even get a decent pair of robot legs, and you think we will create the technology to save the planet?

I sure hope so.:yes:

and all the kids were comparatively poorly educated and they worked the land from a young age and suffered diseases like polio & small pox. Lets go back to those times...

I'm comparing apples & apples

Other places might be feeling the pinch for elbow room but I love my three children.

I can't stand freeloaders much less those that are dumping there kids on grandma and grandpa.:slap::whip:

I heard a saying once that has stuck- The rise of support groups is linked to the lack of Grandma's living at home. It is not the be and end all but an indication of the break down of the family unit leading to troubles.

To me though you are not comparing apples to apples, you are making assumptions and value judgments about people from that time and you are confusing subjects. The discussion that you chimed in on was about the life style and large families.

I started out the discussion with the purpose of defending the Duggar's. As I mentioned before they are totally self reliant and reminiscent of a different time. When people had large close families, where they worked hard to impart the values that they believed in, and were finacially more sound than lots if not most of the people in our society now.

In a previous post I talk with excitement about the future, I in no means want to give up the progress on disease and ailments as you imply. That would be ridiculous.

You are right, my grandmother did not have a college education, but she and her siblings made sure they got the most out of what was offered to them vs the little bastards today that have no desire to learn. My local high school had a 51% graduation rate......what the hell?!?! just built a 50+million dollar high school, like that will solve the problem.

My grandmother worked as a bookkeeper and did very well at it, she worked until the day she was admitted to the hospital where she passed 2 weeks later at 94 years old.

I just wanted people in the discussion to see the difference between the Duggars and the woman in the story Freeze posted.

Eight is enough.
 

We have eight kids and we are managing just fine. Sure things can get kind of tough, and if you do not plan properly or save for a rainy day as the saying goes, then you will end up sucking off of the system at some point. We have 5 kids grown and out who all pay their own way through school right now. We have 3 more here at home with us who are learning how to take responsibility for themselves. 10, 13, & 14 now and they clean their own rooms, do their own laundry, wash their own dishes as they use them, go to school, and even find work to make some pocket money for themselves. It is all in the way you teach them and the example you set for them. Self esteem is something that you have to help them develop so they can be competitive in society.

I do kind of agree about having some kind of system in place that is deemed to make sure that you are able to care for and pay for a child before you are allowed to breed. If you are expecting the Gov to pay your childs way because you are not able to, then surely that should not be allowed to happen. I believe that BrianG's idea is on teh right track.

Para,
I am glad to see people talk about this stuff! This is how to get people to think about this stuff.

I do reject the premise that the planet is in trouble, best example to me is look are Chernobyl. When that sucker melted down they said it would be a llllloooooonnnnnggggg time before it would return to normal....but in just what 25 years nature has reclaimed it. Amazing stuff, same thing with Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but today back to thriving cities. And I would dare say a nuclear reactor melting down and nuclear blasts are much more devastating than most anything else that is going on today. If those things can be reversed than it all can. My fear for the future is not what we can do, but what we won't do.

For instance, your concern over pollution is correct when say applied to emerging economies, like India, like China......We can do everything right, but unless everyone does it is pointless. And why does our government feel the need to hamstring us with things like the Cap and Trade bill currently in the Congress? That is what worries me....will we do something stupid and stifle what needs to be done and can be done.

But what we can do is work and progress as a nation and be ready when the time is right to act as the US has always done. That is why I have Reagan as my avatar, not cause I am republican, because I am not. To me one group is as bad as another. No I dig Reagan, because he believed that the US was still the shinning city on the hill and that the future was better than the past.....the best days are ahead.

And no $hit, the robot legs are coming.....If you search DARPA and MIT, they are working on an exoskeleton for the military, but it will transfer into the private sector as well......I also saw recently where they have a robotic arm about 2-3 years away, I think the engineer said they had mapped 4 or 5 out of 23 or 24 pathways to make the arm work just as a real one would, can legs be far behind.....

So many amazing things coming, I have a 4 year old and a 1 year old....their life expectancy is over 100 years...just mind blowing! I wonder what all they will see.

Don't let the 24 hour news cycle get to you, I know it does me sometimes. I think that is where a lot of that stuff comes from.

Sounds like BIG government and I know you're not for that.

Good thread. One is good and two should be the max if the parents are capable of taking care of them, but after the first one or two gets older, I think one or two more is ok since the first one or two would be paying taxes. If a parent doesn't have the resources to raise a child, then they shouldn't have any.

I really don't know what I'm talking about :lol:. I think two kids should be plenty to keep a family from vanishing. At the moment though, I think a couple or few countries should just calm down on the baby making machines.