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My LST and Muggy Conversion Thread
So I am about to embark on my journey of learning all I can about the LST/Muggy lines. With the exception of my original Revo conversion (which I doubt if I will ever part with), I have completely shed my ties to Traxxas products (my brother in law is inheritng a nice pile of "junk"). A couple months ago, I ran across a very clean LST roller (It had the motor and everything, just no electronics) locally for 75 bucks. After deciding to put a new emaxx tranny in it, I found a decent buy on a Muggy roller that came with a boat load of spare parts (125 shipped). So here I sit, with two partial rigs, and needing a plan of attack. I've been snooping in Bondonuts thread a little, and one other (sorry, cant remember who's that was right now) for ideas.
Other things I've purchased so far: Neu 1520 MMM Hardcore Racing AL LST Arms Hardcore Racing Ti Skid ...I think thats it so far....but not certain....old age sucks.... So the plan at this time on the LST is to go all Aluminum with the build. I've started a CAD file for it, and will slowly be designing a new upper and lower chassis plate for it, and I'm working with one other member here on a motor mount set up. I want to end up with a mount that adequately supports the longer motors for heavy duty bashing. I have a guy lined up to do the CNC machining for me (or with me, I should say). He's going to show me the ropes of CNC's, and help me figure out what kind of machine to buy for myself. I just happened to stumble on this guy on a Machinist Forum last saturday while I was looking for advice on mills. Fairly lucky to find someone who offers to help like that, and not charge for the machining. I'll have to take him out crabbing sometime after its all done. I might need some of you guys that have more experience with the LST's for thoughts and opinions on this stuff. At this point, I think I am leaning towards a center diff, probably with the slipperential (just so I can qualify for the build of the year contest!!!:party:). As far as the Muggy goes, I'll probably leave it basically stock. Maybe I'll fab up a custom brace or chassis for it. But other than that, it will probably stay basically stock. I'll probably take my equipement off the 8T and use as much of that stuff as I can (1515-2.5D, MMM, Teckno mount/battery tray). I also have Mikes motor mount for an 8T that I might try to use on it. I know I can get "fatter" spurs for the 8T, but not certain what's available for the Muggy. I have some crummy phone pics of the pile of parts I'll share here in the next post. BTW....Why dont we have a LST/Muggy forum, or at least a Losi forum. Might want to think about adding one....Brian....?????? |
So I started tonight by tearing down the LST. Can I just tell you how easy it was to get the front and rear off the chassis? 12 total screws, and they were off.....and that was with zero knowledge of how these trucks are configured.
Oh...when I was removing the rims from the Muggy - one side had LH threads, the other RH threads....WTF?!?!?! And whats up with the combo of metric and standard fasteners....crazy.... Here's the pair on the butcher block: http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=517 The Muggy http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=518 The LST ( I know this picture doesnt do it justice, but there are virtually zero scratches on this thing - even the plastic is clean). http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=519 About 20 minutes later - all disassembled: http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=520 The bottom plate. Could someone with a XXL measure the end to end distance on theirs? I'm toying with the idea of stretching this thing out.... http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=522 Top plate. I've marked the holes I need to keep. Any thoughts on where to best locate the steering servo? Seems to me, either one will work. http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=521 |
Killer deal on the truck! $75 is a steal. It'll be neat to see how these turn out.
BTW: the LHT on the left side is probably to help keep the nut on. The way the tire rotates on that side tends to loosed wheel nuts, so reversing the threads tightens it. |
Yeah, that's the conclusion I came to also on that. But its a killer when your not expecting it and crank the wheel nut down even tighter when I put my full 240 into it!!
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1515 might be a bit small on the muggy, depending on what tire/wheel combo you plan to run. I use a 1521 on 6s with std mt badlands... Good setup, and my temps are great even under the southern louisiana sun.
You look to have al bodied shocks on the muggy as well. rpm arms are a good upgrade for the muggy. That and al front knuckles, from new era. The stock c hubs do fine, as do the rear hubs/carriers. The stock knuckles tend to break where the steering tierods attach. Not much else to say about a muggy, thicker chassis made from 7075 would be sweet... |
Muggy needs better chassis; Losi hard anodized or Innovative-RC. Center diff gears for the 8ight fit the Muggy, may need to make clearance if going larger. In fact, most of the 8ight diff parts are the same as Muggy and LST2.
1515 works fine in the Muggy as long as you don't get too carried away with tires (or gearing), I ran 40 series bowties no problem. Although I now have a 1520 for the Muggy when spring rolls around. |
Jeff, I missed getting my pm to the guy selling the muggy before you by 2 hrs....the deal was way too good to pass up. Glad it went to some one here!
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Ha!!! Actually, I almost bought it from the first guy that sold it last fall. Glad I waited, 'cause the second seller added a whole pile of spare parts (I'd swag about 75 bucks worth!). That steel brace that was on it was a real piece of ingenuity though! Would've saved the guy 5 bucks in shipping if he would have removed it!
BDEBE...It was your thread I had followed there for a while that inspired me to go this route....yes, I've read all about the chassis issue. I'll stick with the stock one for now, and see how my machining skills work out with making the LST set up. I wonder how close the chassis is between the 8T and the Muggy??? Hmmmmm.....I just put that thing back together to make room for these two trucks. I'm definitly jacked to get the Muggy going - the only thing I didn't like about the 8T was its low ground clearance. |
I must say, i regret not converting the LST2 i had in my possession. After seeing linc's move around with a 2200/mmm on 5s, i had to have one. I got a good deal on one and then sold it. Now after seeing a couple excellent LST's around here, i'm on the quest again and have my eyes on a couple.
I'm thinking of possibly the center diff as well. I'll have to play around with the calc first. Enough of my ramble, great finds on the 2. Any insight on the mount your thinking about? |
At this point, its all still inside my head...and its cloudy up there! I keep finding myself thinking about something along the lines of a Tekno mount, but probably not fully enclosed as theirs is.
I just got done doing a Chinese blueprint of the upper chassis plate. Only took about the time for a Digornio Pizza to cook and then get cold...still good though! One cut on my finger (Scribing index lines on the plate) - funny how you dont feel a razor blade cutting you until it hits bone..... Still need that center chassis dimension for a XXL... Whats hard right now is keeping myself from designing a G-maxx style chassis for it, or like the one Pletty has. Dont want to go the route that has been gone before....but it may make sense.... |
You did get a LST correct? not a LST2?
Anyone want to shed light on the difference? EDIT: Picked up a LST for $100 shipped. It looks great from pics. |
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beefier arms all 8 beefier hinge pins rear turnbuckle delete (c hub) 20mm hexes aluminum diff cases different chassis rails different tranny housing |
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I'm not really concerned about the 1515 2.5D being able to push the Muggy since a 1Y does just fine in my Flux - so its just a matter getting it geared right I'd think. Still working on the chassis plate design. Got the layout put into CATIA today, plotted it out, and found some errors. Does anyone have a slipperential that they can get the bearing to bearing measurement off of? Need to start placement and relationship of the motor and mounts. |
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In conclusion, the slipperential must be 2-3mm shorter than an ofna spider diff. I'd say there is 4-5mm more for me to shim in the cd/motor mount, which makes Mike's universal mount about 38-39mm apart. If you went with 34mm you could just shim any slop from the slipperential. I hope that is close enough to get you started? |
Thanks! That should be good for now until I start placing the mounting holes.
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That first design I sent you was based on the slipperential. Here's some dimensions for you.
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=526 http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=527 http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=528 The slipperential does not come with bearings so you will need to supply your own. |
That's perfect Jason!
Hopefully I'll get some time today to do some modeling.....unless real work gets in the way!!! |
Progress?
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This is great Jeff. I bought an lst2 a few months back have thought about letting it go since I got the baja but I think I will hang onto it to convert someday. Did you get rid of your Hellfire?
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Yeah, I have the top plate configured. I'll post some pics of it this afternoon (gotta go grout my tile now). I need some feedback on what i've got.
Guy - yes, I still have the hellfire. I've robbed a few parts (bearings and links) off of it here and there, but its pretty much still all there. Want it????? |
So here are some pics of where I'm at so far. Didn't get anything done on it today - the grouting took longer than I thought, and my daughter and the grandkids are on the way over now.
Top view http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=537 Side view http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=536 Iso view http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=535 So I'm currently looking at making some smaller CD mounts that will mount to the lower tray (which I didn't model up yet). They are flush with the top of the chassis - I might be able to tie them into it also instead of a plate tieing them together. I'm thinking of trying a mount set up similar to a flux mount - two straps around the motor, and they would mount to the upper chassis and be slotted side to side. But, this wouldn't put the motor in direct alignment with the spur...not sure if thats going to be a problem or not. http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=538 I think I'll extend the upper chassis plate to one side to give me a battery mount location. Or, if I can get dimensions for the XXL, that might give room to mount it on center... |
looks great so far
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I'm thinking about offsetting the center diff to one side now, similar to a truggy alignment. Not sure if the CVD cups on the LST are any different to be able handle that angle - anyone know if there's a difference?
Sliding it over about a half inch will allow me to drop the motor down some more into the "tray" area. |
Here's an idea, invert the motor and diff so the diff sits above (but still 45 degrees) the motor. Then you can mount the motor and the batteries on the lower plate. It's a concept I toyed with but never thought to offset the motor.
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I would like the Hellfire, but can't right now. Need to do some thinning of the herd first.
Before I bought the lst2 I was gathering parts from the chop shops to build a xxl. It will be a while before it takes shape. Would be happy to lend you the xxl chassis and/or any of the other parts I have so you can look at, measure, remeasure, stare at, remeasure, etc. all you want. I'll need your address again though. |
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I'll be coming through Spokane on the morning of the 27th and back through late on the 4th of April - I could either pick it up then, or drop it off. I'll PM you on this, and send ya some postage money. I ordered the slipperential and gears last night (thanks to my in laws B-day present!!). Went with the 52 tooth gear and a 10 and a 12 tooth pinion. 1:1 rollout is probably not attainable with this system - I'll be sitting at about 1.7:1 or there abouts......similar to how a Flux is stock. The old lady is heading out of town for the weekend, so unless I find a cutie to drink with, I should get some time to get some concepting done. |
Jeff, I found your address and almost put it in the mail yesteday but thought I better make sure you haven't changed addresses in the last year and a half. It's out in the truck but I think it was 1100 something. If nothings changed I will send it out to you.
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Hold off for a couple days - I put a bid on a new chassis on Flea bay - might end up with it for the same price as it would cost for us to ship. If I get it, you can have it when I'm done measuring it.
ps. Yes, sounds like you have the right addy still. |
Didn't get any CAD work done today like I had planned. I think I want to get the Muggy up and running before I make my final decision on going center diff on the LST......after thinking about it, I'll end up with basically the same damn truck if I do the conversion with a diff.....
So I started pulling the Muggy apart: Removed the CD and tried to fit up the 8T RCM mount, and found a few differences - mounting holes are different, the centerline of the diff from the tray is different, and the bearings are bigger. So, I put in an order for a Muggy/Mayhem motor mount, and ordered one of Mikes large battery trays. Lots of room on the Muggy, so it should be a straightforward conversion. I'll probably have to shim up the battery tray to clear the screws holding the mudguard in place, but that also should be easy. While looking at the Muggy, it doesn't appear that it would be too hard to make a long center plate that would also capture the center diff to stiffen things up. Or maybe even some turnbuckles. I think I want to get the Muggy up and running before I make my final decision on going center diff on the LST......after thinking about it, I'll end up with basically the same damn truck if I do the conversion with a diff..... |
Well, I scored some LST2 Flextek arms, Lunsford pins/turnbuckles, Ti Plates, and AL bulks today. So it looks like the conversion to the LST2 config is set. Sweet......
Now I have a set of Hardcore racing arms for the original LST that I'll sell to anyone that wants them. |
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So I'm kinda rethinking my overall goal here. I started looking at the possibility of somehow incoroporating a tranny below the chassis (between it and the bottom plate). Wouldnt really be all that tough to do - just a couple of bearing mounts and shaft holes. Just have to figure out how to make it accessible if needed, and close it off from debris. But then I started wondering if there would be more value in designing something more mainstream (ie., a chassis and diff, or a chassis/BrandXX tranny) that I could then possibly give to Mike to add to his conversion list. I personnally have zero interest in producing items for others (its a hobby, not a job), so giving it to him to produce would be in everyones best interest. What kind of thoughts do you guys have on this? The Dude mount kinda takes care of a standard LST tranny. But, one advantage of possibly going with some other tranny is a significant weight reduction - that LST tranny is one hefty beast. The Revo/3905 tranny would be a fairly easy config, and they are readily available. A Savage tranny would probably fit fairly well also. The Revo would be even better if FLM would make a plate for it like they do for the single speed conversion on the 3906 tranny (nothing but wasted space in it in a single speed config). This could be a "kit" kinda like the CRT conversion kits..... |
Can I bother someone into measuring the top chassis plate LOSB2287 from front to back and side to side? Thanks.
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Print it on a 11x17 paper and it should be full scale. |
Sorry I should have been clearer, I was thinking of the XXL top chassis plate. Thank you for the pdf file.
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So I'll be getting my XXL chassis sometime in the next week, and should have the dim's on it late next week for ya.
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Thanks a bunch.
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My pile of new parts is growing into a daunting mountain of goodies - and I don't think I am quite done ordering things yet. Seems these trucks aren't quite popular enough that you can get everything you need from one vendor. So far I've used Mike, A-Main, OverdriveRC, StormerHobbies...and Ebay.
I got the Slipperential (50T, Hardened endcaps) assembled and installed in the Muggy today. Had to open up the slot in the chassis by almost double the width, and about .3" length wise. You also have to clear for the slipper. I had a heck of a time with the teflon washer - just a hair too small. I put a small chamfer on the cup and finally got it forced on, but a piece of the teflon pushed back out. Used a screw driver and the end of a socket wrench to basically mold it back in. Another note on the slipperential - clean those screws before putting your threadlock on. They are still oiled from the manufacture, and your threadlock will do little with that oil on them. Also got Mikes large batt tray installed - fit great on the Muggy, and still left room for the MMM right behind it. I do have to say, my 5S Neu's are a very snug fit in the tray. Was planning on putting the 1515 2.5D in it, but as I was removing it from the 8T, I discovered a wire connection that apparently had been having some serious shorting. All along I thought I had blown a diff in the truck - it started hesitating on me periodically right after I jumped it off a 20 ft wall into some soft sand. I only ran it for another 20 minutes after this occured, and havent bothered taking it apart yet. I'll have to pull the connector off and solder on a new one. So out came the brand new 1520....:party::party::party::party: I'm still concerned about bending Mikes motor mount with this thing. Just light pressure with my hand I could see movement in the mount. BUT....I still have to fab and install a top plate for the diff mounts - so that might help with that. Just have to mount the reciever, and make some servo mounts (the Muggy didn't have any of the plastic screw pieces with it). Hopefully I can put something together out of the extra's off the LST. I'll get some pics up later...... MC...I got the XXL chassis yesterday. It is quite a bit bigger - how accurate of a measurement do you need? If you just want a tape measure number, I can get that for you today/tomorrow. |
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So I ahvent got any new pics...too much to do. But I did get the XXL chassis dimensioned out. Here are the PDF's of the upper and lower chassis.
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Beautiful day here in the pacific NW -mid sixties, great basketball games on the telli, and I found time to get some pictures taken. I also took the the muggy for a spin up and down the street.
Couple notes before the picture. Had to make a custom center diff top plate out of 1/4" AL to make room for that big 50T spur. Found a good use for Traxxas parts - had a couple sets of new Revo LT tie rods, and used them as chassis braces. It was a real bugger trying to find 3mm screws long enough to go through the rear center brace mount and the tie rod end. I ran it for about 5 minutes - thought I was keeping it at half throttle (trying to break in the Slipperential before snugging it down), but then got tempted to give it the full deal.....very dissapointing. It accelerates to 1/4 throttle strong, then just falls on its face. It was almost like the batteries were dead. Checked batt on the hyperion, and its at 19.5 volts. Have to do some more testing on this one... One last note. I ordered Mikes largest battery tray (without doing a custom order). I figured that my Neu's would be considered a fairly standard size, and that his largest would fit them easy enough. I really had to shoe horn them in, and had to do it with them on their side. Even with that, the straps are far too short for bashing. I only have about 1/4" or so of velcro engagment. I really would have thought that given the nature of this site, Mikes trays would be set up for some bigger than small 4S battery setups. I like the way it fits over the mud guard, but next time I'll likely spend less and get a larger Tekno tray. They have long straps - and they use a third one that goes in the forward direction. Just a little rant... I'm also going to swap out the shock towers for the LST towers. It'll likely affect the handling some, but I'm more after that truck stance than I am a racer stance. Now for some pics... http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=625 http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=626 http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=627 http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=628 http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=629 http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=630 And that "pile" of parts...I started forgetting what I had and didn't have, and now with more parts in the mail, I had to get the new stuff organized and visible. My little Losi parts house! http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/pict...&pictureid=631 Go HUSKIES!!!! |
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