TeamNovak's Lifetime Legacy Trade-In Program
 

Here are the links to our new, exclusive Trade-In Program and CS information. Comments? Suggestions?:

Motor Trade-In Program

Speed Control Trade-In Program

Updated Customer Service Information

Link to Service Form http://www.teamnovak.com/cs/cs_forms...20_4-15-10.zip

We have added an exclusive TeamNovak Trade-In option:

TeamNovak's new Legacy Lifetime Trade-In Program. You can now return any esc or BL motor we have ever sold and upgrade to any currently manufactured product: esc for esc, motor for motor.

Nice, we love upgrading stuff that doesn't work :D
I have a SS esc from days of old. I removed the heatsink from it, but the rest is there. Would it be possible to upgade it to a 3s version, or would you need to whole thing in complete condition?

This program offers three options for the returned items:

REPLACE: Motor is replaced with the same model.

EXCHANGE: Motor can be exchanged for any other motor listed within the same group.

UPGRADE: Any Novak motor ever made can be upgraded for any motor listed in Group M1, M2 or M3. Upgrade price is listed in the orange upgrade column.

You can return any item--working or not working--we do not evaluate items returned for upgrade, so a heat sink less esc would be OK...:yes:

I have a cooked XBR, it was a warranty replacement for a old ss unit, and it cooked withing 10mins... I gave up, as i do not have a receipt, and not really wanting to dish out any more dollars... And looking at the link the XBR is not even listed in this program...

Any ideas?

Since we no longer make the XBRs, you cannot replace your XBR for another XBR. This new program allows you to exchange your XBR for any other esc in the S2 Group for the exchange price in the exchange column (on the same line as the current esc you select.) .

You can also upgrade your XBR for any current esc listed for the price in the orange header upgrade column (on the same line as the esc you select.)

Example: Exchange your XBR for a Havoc 3S....54.00
Example: Upgrade your XBR to a Havoc Pro......85.00

Ok, will go with the Havoc 3s then. What paperwork is required?

Oops! We should have added a link to our Non-Warranty service form to the motor and esc pages. However, you can access the PDF return form from the NW section of our CS policies page:

Novak Customer Service Information

Arctic, Ruthie from CS emailed me about a transaction that was probably yours. I sent CS a link to this thread and I see that you have removed both your comments and my responses.

The only way we can work to make this program more effective is by reviewing customers' feed-back.

Its all good - I didn't see my initial frustrations as adding any value and don't want to clutter up your thread...

All the best...

PS I hope you don't mind but I edited your first post to add in a link to the form for you...

how about a warrenty like castle creations, warrenty costs are one of the biggest reasons i havent bought a novak product in the last 2 years

so to upgrade from my HV4400 to a new HV balistic motor would cost $70 plus shipping, even though you can buy the balistic motor for $99 shipped new, i dont mean to sound like a jerk but thats not a good deal

This (above) is our non-warranty Trade-In program ; we also have a complete warranty program.

Customer Service Information

We have not yet shipped our new Ballistic 550 (HV) motors. The street price for this new motor will be 120.00. So, we have not opened exchanges or upgrades to this motor--nor have we established an upgrade price.

Returning your discontinued HV 4400 and upgrading to a HV4.5 2S/SC motor would be 70.00---almost a 30% discount from the HV4.5 "street price".

Returning your discontinued HV 4400 and upgrading to a Ballistic 540 motor would be 70.00---more than a 20% discount from the Ballistic "street price".

Why do you believe we should charge a lot less for upgrading to current products?

i know i had to use it 4-5 times, 120 days is not enough time, thats what I'm getting at.


Ok I'm just going to say it.

In my experience i have never had a brushless Novak product last a year is that why you guys will not match castles warranty?

I personally spent more on out of warranty service than i spent on initial purchases and thats why i switched to castle and tekin.

i would love to put a HV ballistic motor in my slash 4x4 but Novak's warranty and non warranty replacement cost are the issue.

(to be fair i have afew brushed Novak esc's that are over 10 years old that have never been a problem and i still use them onroad)

here is an example-

castle creations sidewinder is $78 new on amain, its $35 for a non warranty repair at castle

Novak's Havoc 3S is $99 at amain and non warranty repair is $50.

so to the every day joe its going to cost more to replace a havoc and we are going to have to pay for that repair 245 days sooner than if we had went with the sidewinder.

thats my point

Don't you have to add another $13.65 to the Novak price for return shipping & handling: http://www.teamnovak.com/cs/shipping/index.html

AFAIK, all R/C electronic mfgs offer the same actual warranty. We all cover factory-caused defects in materials or workmanship; no one (that I know of) covers damage caused by misuse or improper installation, moisture etc.

So warranties are not about time---120 days, 365 days. Free replacement is always determined by the cause of the damage. Damage caused by defects over which the factory has control are the only defects covered by warranty.

The "time" aspect of various warranties refers to the months during which an item will be considered for free warranty replacement. Many customers do not understand how manufacturers' warranties work and what they cover.

We do evaluate all items returned under warranty, and only offer free replacements for factory-caused defects; possibly, other companies do not review returns or enforce their warr provisions.

thats a good point

castle and tekin also pay for return shipping

Novaktwo

i am only refering to the items that are under manufactures defects, stop skipping around the issues.

Most damaged items returned for warranty replacement were not damaged by factory-caused defects; factory defects will generally show up within the first few hours of use.

If a customer has successfully used an item for 6-8-10 months, the possibility of a factory defect showing up is negligible. This is why I addressed your comment about "245 days" because 12 month warranties are pretty useless for this reason.

What issue am I avoiding?

If Tekin and Castle can offer a free return shipping, why can't you? The great customer service of Castle and Tekin is what's keeping my business with them especially since I'm in the military stationed overseas. They had made/offered a lot of great things for us in the military which include replacement of parts even after the warranty period. They also gave us substantial discount for their products hence more and moremilitary members are getting into the brushed/brushless scene for relaxation.

I still have a Novak goat that I use as a paperweight in my office as a reminder not to ever buy any novak products again.

Well my return was due to a short in the stator that took out the ESC... Difficult for that to be anything other than a coil issue but because of the 120days limit I went straight to the upgrade program.

http://rc-monster.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26406

I must have mis-understood my options - I didn't even think that you'd look at this as a possibility for repair.

We do not generally do any repairs; we switched over to a fixed-price replacement program many years ago. We have a whole department dedicated to re manufacturing items. We completely disassemble (discard all damaged boards/parts), clean the boards (ionic washer) reassemble/rewire and retest all rmf items so we can offer a new warranty.
Having technicians repair customer returns individually, to the point of offering a new warranty, proved far too costly

Most stator damage is due to overheating the motors (mostly due to aggressive timing adjustments); we do not warranty these motors with burnt-out stators. Over heating melts the silicone coating on the wire, which then allows the wire to short out. This damage often demags the rotor too.

We do offer free shipping on warranty returns. We have discussed offering a active-duty Military discount program. Perhaps this summer, we can design and implement such a program.

I would normally agree but this was an 18,5T in a axial scale rock crawler - Its rather hard to over heat one in that use - I thought they also had built in thermal protection or am I mistaken?

agreed, and what Novak products could the user adjust the timing on before last year?

i had a rotor explode in a 5800ss, it was in a lite weight touring car with 6cell sub-c battery's, it couldn't have been caused by overreving and it never made heat but Novak charged me for replacement. i had 2 HV maxx's fail just after warranty expired. i went threw 3 of the old SS systems in onroad cars ( one ss was stock in a losi XXS but i was told the stock gearing was over geared and i had to pay for it even though it was still underwarrenty) and one gtb that was two weeks old (you guys still have it, i wasn't going to pay for repairs on something that was bran new and was setup right but blamed on me. that was the straw that broke my back and turned me you castle).

every time i had a warranty return it was always blamed on me for reasons that never fit the problem and when i questioned the techs they often would tell me i didn't understand or flat out accuse me of lieing.

novaktwo you asked us what we though and what we would change, and all we really want is Novak to treat us like Castle and Tekin does.

I think there is another way to look at this program, and it that light its not so bad.

Basically, I see it as an opportunity to purchase Novak products at a slight discount from street price for those that are impatient or can't plan their purchases to take advantage of existing, known discounts.

I need a Ballistic 17.5 for a certain car because the sensor harness comes out the side on the Ballistics. I have a non-working SS17.5. But, since I can plan to take advantage of other discounts (T's for instance), it is un-economic to use the Novak program. I can get a brand new Ballistic 17.5 for less that it would cost to send my totally useless SS17.5 back to Novak and upgrade to a Ballistic.

But for someone who can't plan, or can't wait, they can get the motor for less than buying from the LHS. They just need a toasted or unwanted motor to send in. So for them, it is a good thing. The deals on the ESCs are actually much better than the deals on the motors when viewed in that light.

This program seems pretty good to me. I bought a Velociti 7.5R for $40 used and now I can use it as about $50 of credit towards a new Ballistic.

????

I don't quite get how that is a good deal. You spent $40 for the motor and you must send Novak an additional $83.65 along with the motor to do the upgrade plus, lets say, at least $3 to mail the motor to them. That's $126.65 for the same new motor you could have bought for $89.99 plus shipping from A-Main or Tower.

I've only had one Novak system, HV 4.5 motor and the original HV esc. IMO the motor was decent but the esc wasn't capable. I'm giving them another shot as I just ordered a SS13.5 for my SC10. The class specs a 13.5 so that's what I'm running, of course I'll ne using a MMPro that I ordered at the same time though. If the motor dies, I just hope the rotor is still good so I have a magnet for my fridge! I won't pay the prices that this program asks. I would either use a tower code and buy a new one or just buy something else! Hopefully ity doesn't happen but if it does I hope Castle has some 1/10 ROAR approved motors by then, otherwise it'l be a Tekin

How do you get $83.65 and $126.65? I send them my motor, and get a new Ballistic for $50, plus $13.65 S/H, and maybe $2-3 for me to send it to them, so close to $65 total I can get a new Ballistic. Considering I've already used my Velociti motor for quite awhile I feel I got my $40 "value" out of it, as far as I'm concerned that $40 (or at least the greater majority) is used up, out of the equation. If you bought a car for $5000, drove it for 5 years, and traded it in towards another $5000 car you wouldn't say that the second car cost $10000. Now the motor has renewed value if I take advantage of the trade-in program. I'm getting more value out of that than if I tried to sell the motor and use the money towards a Ballistic. You can spin the numbers to make it look like a good deal or a bad deal, and it might be good or bad depending on specific situations, but it my mind in my situation it's a good deal.

I'm with semi-pro on this since we have been working with those esc's he was talking about, and they all failed with no reason to. And just to add, I have had my RX8 just about since they came out. I have had to send it in 2 times, once a few runs after I got it, and at the start of this season(well after the warranty) and they fixed it. They also replaced the rotor that had a bent shaft witch I didnt tell them about since I knew that was my fault. So all in all between castle and tekin, they have the best customer service out there.

a) You didn't says the 7.5R was an old, used motor. My impression was you just bought it to do the trade-up. That's what frequently happens with Forum posts - small nuances of information don't always come across.

b) The upgrade price to a Ballistic from any motor is $70, not $50. I beleieve you misinterpreted the chart. They have a specific example: "Example (UPGRADE): Trade in SS Pro Spec 13.5 for a Ballistic Spec 13.5 for $70" Try it - you will see. The return S&H is $13.65 for one item. That is how I got $86.65 (including you shipping the motor to them for $3).

So you'll spend $86.65 to send them the motor and do the upgrade, plus part with the 7.5R. If it still runs and isn't damaged, you could sell it easily for $20 and still come out ahead buying a new one from the aforementioned vendors. Novak still gets a sale either way, but the old motor remains in circulation for someone to use, and you save a few $$$.

This program is not for returning items that are still functioning---although customers still do; it works best when you return several items at a time for replacement or upgrade. Functioning items can be easily sold.

Many customers, who use our NW service programs, had requested the option of exchanging (or upgrading) to a completely different item, we decided to formally incorporate the option. We will be eliminating the service charge on any transactions that include at least one upgrade item---this should make the prices more reasonable.

Programs this complex are a challenge to design and manage for a small company, such as us. The only reason we can make all of these options available is because we manufacture all of our products here in Irvine. If we had to depend on imports from China, we could not support such a program---too many potential delays.

When we design a service program, such as this new one, we must be concerned about complaints from our hobby dealers---we want to offer NW service options attractive to our customers, but not offer upgrades so cheaply that we are competing with our dealers. So it's a fine line. We get that customers want a "good deal"---and this deal isn't considered good enough.

We really can't please everybody. There are far too many stakeholders in whatever decisions we make for that. Including an upgrade path for all legacy escs and BL motors we have ever sold, seems like a fantastic offer to me---as well as an option no other R/C company supports. Everyone who purchases a Novak product knows that they can always return it for something newer.

I can't debate any old service transactions unless you wish to PM me your invoice numbers so that I can have CS pull the paperwork for my examination---which I will gladly do for anyone who believes that a given repair was not handled correctly. We have been evaluating customer returns for decades so we have a pretty good idea about what damages electronics.

That chart doesn't seem right to me then. I look in the row that has my motor in it, then slide over to the column where it says "Upgrade to any motor" and it says $50, so then why does the example say $70, which is it? I don't see how the chart could be read any other way.

We may need to clarify the chart info; this is why we include multiple examples. All of the prices referring to a given product---replace, exchange or upgrade---are all on the same line as the product. The prices to replace, exchange or upgrade to the selected item are listed next to the product. If you have any suggestions about making this clearer---or, adding more examples---let me know.

Because the most popular motor upgrade will be to a Ballistic, we are going to add this info to the opening section, at the top of the chart:

"To upgrade any non-Ballistic BL motor to a Ballistic is 70.00." (although, I think we will lower the price to 69.00.)

We are going to add the link to the non-warranty service form to the opening section. Also, eliminate the service charge on upgrade transactions. We will be adjusting the info for a couple of weeks before we do our press release.

What NovakTwo said was the way I thought it would work but a simple clarification in the chart would be instead of saying "Upgrade to any motor" it should say "Upgrade to any motor in this group" (M1 group, M2 group, etc.)

Besides, if you read all the charges listed in context with each other it wouldn't really make sense to charge someone with an SS $50 to upgrade to a Ballistic but charge someone that already has a Ballistic $70. Considering all the charts as a whole, the interpretation of $50 to get the Ballistic by sending in an SS wouldn't make sense.

I have had nothing but great luck with all my Novak systems. I have had 1 failure within warranty (or just out of), and Novak was there had my fixed up in no time. I had another failure Waayyy out of warranty that was clearly my fault.
Castle on the other hand treated me terrible and took almost our whole summer to fix their problem.
Novak will always get my money, even if it is a bit more, they seem dependable and rugged..
Just my .02

I guess you're the exception to the norm :whistle::whistle:.

We made a couple of changes to our new Trade-In program that should save customers a few bucks...

We reduced the Ballistic upgrade price to 69.00 and completely eliminated the 5.00 service charge from all transactions. We also added a link in the leading paragraph to our NW service return form and a link to our return shipping charges. I think that we added a couple more examples, too.

Any more inputs?

How about making it retroactive two weeks. ;)

My replacement unit arrived - unfortunately ups just dropped it off so I couldn't reject delivery.

It wasn't worth the extra headache to return it again so I just threw in a 14mm rotor and will run on 2s.

Any idea when the m2 dig will be available - do you have people in field beta testing? Will it have independent front and rear drag?

The M2 Dig is dependent on the Kinetic firmware/NovakLink. When we decided to redesign the Kinetic, it put a dent in the M2 project. However, everything is back on track so that we can soon concentrate on the M2.

It's pretty impossible to make a CS program retroactive---what's shipped, shipped.

We do have quite a few products in our RMF store---motors are usually available, but not every esc. No Goat 3Ss.

Hmm you have a credit card...