Wager
 

So I have been in the discussion and wagering that my E-Raze can beat a boat. We have been discussing this for some time and i have wanted to get some viewpoints on the matter from others. This is more or less going to happen. Before summer ends. Whether the buggy makes it across the segment of water or not is up in the air.

I would be starting from the sand at the local marina, he would be in the water. Once I hit a certain mark, which we are still arguing over, he would be allowed to gas it. From there it would be a race to the other side of the bay.

My question is... Will I be able to make this journey? I have skidded on water on many occasions with my E-Revo, but those where more like 10-20 foot puddles and such. This would be a 10-20 second pull over 10-50 feet deep water. Would a brushless boat be able to get to top speed quicker than a buggy near top speed already?

Oh this shall be fun!

BL boats on 4s and up plane out pretty fast !
What kind of boat do you want to race, this may be big factor weither you have a chance or not ?

Here is the scheduled path, starting on the beach and ending on a flat area on the other side of the cove.

http://img40.imagefra.me/img/img40/7...fm_f364c83.jpg

He will be running his Super Vee.

I think the reduction in speed the water will cause is going to be to great to overcome the acceleration of the boat. Like Bondo said, boats accelerate pretty quickly once the prop cavitation stops and grabs. The buggy will be going from 50mph at intial entry however the water will exponentially decrease the speed over the distance traveled. While the boat will be at 40-45mph in 2 seconds...

The biggest factor is at what rate with the water slow you down...

If I'm reading this right you want to race a boat with a car, both of which will be on running on water?
Um..... no the car would loose speed and sink like a rock. The a-arms would drag, the nose would plow under the ripples and waves....Done, call the scuba team. Even with Sand paddles you have no way of keeping the nose up.

It's like having him race you in the parking lot.

Interesting, I was thinking I would be able to accelerate on the water seeing I was most likely going to enter the water at no where near WOT so as to get a feel if I need to give it more. I don't want to go at it full throttle and have it do something crazy where i will lose control and have to go fishing...

Your spoiling the fun!

You gonna have to hit the water excess of 60mph to have a chance, if this stretch across the water is 100' then just forget it now befor you drown your RC.

I'll give you credit for thinking seriously about this, admirable.

I am not too certain on the exact distance but I would assume less than 100 and more around 50 feet.

I may have to sneak in some practice runs first that way I can judge whether or not this is even feasible. I surely hope to find better results than just the physics and principles behind the logic.

This has been a topic of debate for almost a year and a half now, so I am pretty determined to give this a try. Whether or not I beat the boat is another concern. Completing the trip across a large distance on water is my true goal.


Would placing a ski-like piece of lexan on the front end help to keep the front up. Seems this is the topic of concern. What can be done to aid in keeping the front up? Should I be using a Slash with front skis instead? That is another one to try down the road.

Maybe with some of these tires and wheels you would have a chance at floating?

http://www.junfac.com/shop/index.php...6b48a2080c667c

http://www.junfac.com/shop/images/ri...air_black2.jpg

Check Youtube it's not implausible. Your risking everything, he's risking the bet amount. It would be cool to take him on his turf. It could go like this.

I'm not risking too much. I will try to waterproof the electronics as much as possible, then I was thinking of adding something inside the shell where ever I can to keep it buoyant in case something happens. That way it will float, or at least sink slower till I get a chance to get out to it. I was thinking that spray on foam from the depot.

Trust me I have thought this through. The only thing I haven't really done is try it a few times in shorter water.

Do you think I can turn? Seeing as I will have paddles on all four corners, it may be plausible. My one fear is hitting the water at the wrong angle and shooting myself in a path that will never see land again.

With good lipos and a x442 prop that supervee will do 44mph or more and come out of the hole fast. I have one. I think your truck will sink after the initial forward momentum is lost.

Interesting contest

If you have tyres with bite (I'm thinking sand tyres or badlands) & the water is reasonably glassy, I believe you have a chance. I'd tape over every hole & opening to be more streamlined also

I'd be accelerating from 1/2 throttle when you hit the water (this will keep the front wheels up & hopefully mitigate nosediving) & WOT FTW!!

Make sure you get video

The foff vehicles just floor it when they hit the water and they are 4wd, is the raze 4wd? If not I would think it's going down:lol:
Good point, you'll want to make sure the tires are sealed and any water can easily drain off the chassis. It might even be worth while making a belly plate, one that only leaves the wheels exposed. Drag is going to be the biggest problem.

Inspiration-

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Have you seen my Raze?
http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...highlight=raze
It is a bit different now. It has a body and mudguards. As well as a castle 2200 and airtronics high speed servo.

I am diggin the plate in the front.

That plate at the front goes all the way under. In his part 2 video he also fitted a kind of wheelie bar which also aids as a rudder.

Possible
 

Well I think the video kind of proves that it is surly possible. As you can see keeping control of the vehicle is key to accomplishing your goal. If you lose control even for a second you are doomed. I like the idea of using the air tires. That would help keep you afloat, and keep water from building up in the tires. Using a front slid would be a must to keep the nose from diving into the water on deceleration. Not sure that you would get as good of and accleration as the boat, but you could make a good showing for sure. The feet is possible, but beating the boat I believe is unrealistic. I would surly get your setup where you think it needs to be and make some test runs of your own just to see if you can handle the task at hand. Placing some kind of floatation into your setup would be most recommended so that your vehicle does not go submarine on you. That would not be too funny from an owner perspective:neutral:, but would make a very funny video for guys like us to watch:rofl:.

Wouldn't centrifugal force take care of any water in or near the tyres?

After making some test runs they would surely become waterlogged. Weight is obviously a key issue.

Not
 

NOT necasarily. If there is any way for water to penatrate the wheel/tire it will. If the tire is sealed and the rim has any holes in it for ventalation purposes water may get into the wheel and create an unbalanced situation with centrifical force. Anyone who plays with water toys knows that water will find its way into just about any weak spot and has the ability to reak havoc. You coud practically turn your vehicle into a boat type of vehicle and skim accross any body of water easily, but beating a speed boat may be a bit much to ask. Your only hope would be for him to lose control even for just a second, and then you may win the event.

I derive my income from water toys...I run a company that has several boatyards, a ferry business & a few other marine based businesses

I just don't get how water will defy physics & ingress a rapidly spinning wheel that is subject to massive centrifugal force...if you stop in a puddle of water or sink that's a different story but assuming you cross the water you should be fine - surely

Closed cell foam doesn't take on water, don't those wheels reno911's using have the closed cell type?

Yeh, possibly IDK :neutral: but it wouldn't take much water to throw the balance like Jerry stated. I've had tires balloon weird shapes but of course that was with standard foams.

I agree.
 

I agree that if there is any way for water to incroach, it surly will. I to have worked on water for many years (20+ years in the US Navy as a mechanic), and if there is one thing I have learned is that any opening that is not sealed will allow water to enter. Your assuming that he will only have one shot at this, and will not do any practice runs of any kind, or possibly come in contact with water prior to his speed run. Once this vehicle comes in touch with water it will for sure get into something. If any water enters the wheels it will throw things out of wack and vibrate like hell causing handling issues or maybe even break something.

I'm thinking it might go something like this

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Get a spool of 20Lb+ fishing line to put on a pole, make sure you have enough to cover the run. Let it free spool off the reel. It shouldn't add any resistance but if it does sink, you can get it back. Adding foam floatation to hold it up would add weight.

I think this weekend I will have to get some trial runs in to gain some perspective on the matter.

I really like the idea of a saver string or fishing line. Not to shabby of an idea.

PBO now that is truly what I am hoping to have happen, nice vid! I would say that that speed is fairly comparable, know imagine an 1/8th scale buggy with a castle 22oo on 4s... If everything goes as well as it is going in my head I would say the boat may have an obvious advantage, but this should be interesting.

Kickass man. Never thought it would make it that far. The other vid was just a few feet, enough not to lose too much speed, but that one is awesome.

Lets see a nitro pull wheelies on the water!

My thinking is w/ PBO on the water issue. At the very worst, you could put a few small drain holes in the tire tread. Cent force will fling the water out quickly.

I've watched that video a couple times over and over. Thats pretty amazing! I for one was skeptical but now see that its completely do able.

Which if you think about it, a boat hull at full throttle pretty much only has the prop in the water. Thinking in this prospective, the only thing in the water will be paddle tires, much like a prop. Where a boat differs is the ability to stop, float, and start up again and plane off. If you are to stop, no planing off..



I do this with all my tires. I seal off the rim holes and punch holes in the tires. I use a hole puncher like this:

http://images1f.snapfish.com/2323232...43333335nu0mrj

The Raze is electric not nitro. And I was mocking up the wheels last night. I put some electrical tape over the rims holes, rebalanced them, as well as put a small amount of thin ca glue around the bead to ensure their seal.

I am playing off the idea that the front will unload allowing the front to stay up out of the water a bit more.

I am going to redo the f/r diffs with 100k to lessen the sides from pulling and steering me off coarse.

I have some plexi glass that I am going to fab up a hull for the front. I may use some lexan or whatever I can find.

I still need to go to the store and pick up some balloons, though most of the electronics are already waterproofed using some form of liquid tape / plastidip I still want to take an extra precaution. Especially with the lipo.

I was originally planning to add some floatation devices to the inside of the chassis to aid in the "Oh S**t" scenario, but now I am thinking of going with the string and go fishing idea.

I appreciate all the ideas and support guys, I am really getting excited about finally going through with this.

I like Tex's idea with the pneumatics, only problem may be weight, and the fact they're out of stock...

It is a good idea. Yes they float, but the tread won't be getting you anywhere very fast. Just a bunch of wheel spin till you arrive at location B 30 minutes later.

Well you may not win but you won't sink it at least lol.

Rustler vxl = 2wd wheelie machine

I think this is to its advantage on water - no problem keeping the front up out of the water and it keeps all power at ther rear, in the water with paddles. A nice extended rear skid (in place of a wheelie bar) could make it ride on the water nicely.

If needed I could put the paddles on the 2x4 slash and run 3s with the vxl!

But I think the buggy would be more interesting.

My motivation.
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Yup. I thought someone may have been watching a bit too much Top Gear as soon as I saw your OP. Not that there is such a thing as too much TG :)