Toro 1/8 Combo
 

Hello
Funny Chinese people got to MMM
Toro parse here http://forum.rcdesign.ru/f71/thread210667.html

Hmm, the power & brainboard layout is rather similar isnt it, not cool really. I saw that Hobbywing have new sensored 1/10 & 1/8 escs the other day; everybody is ripping off castle these days, hard to do much about patent infringements with companies in china... :no:

castle don't build stuff here they get it from china and articles i have had read these companies that are coming out now have been OEM for a lot of companies . so don't think they are ripping off castle now if they were made in the USA then another company did the same thing you my have a point. and if castle had a case don't you think they would be shut down or sued.

From what I know, and I don't know much, Castle imports small electronic components and parts from overseas so they can assemble their systems in the USA in their USA based factory. Systems that have been engineered from the ground up by Castle Creations USA. If an overseas company, or any other company copies Castle Creations products then I would say yes, they are ripping off Castle.

Completely untrue. When a company "hires" another company (outsoursce) to fabricate parts for its products, those products are protected by international copyright law, and both companies sign numerous agreements saying such. Same goes for theories and ideas that companies identify as their "intellectual property".

Wrong!

I have never been to that side of the world but from those I know who have and what I hear of these things. We only see a small small percentage of the chaoticness that is China/Japan/Korea/Taiwan/etc copies of everything. If something is made, from what I understand, there is at least two to three companies that make the exact same thing. If they all originate from the same source or not is still a mystery. Must be nice though in Japan you can buy an iPhone, an uPhone, and an ePhone.

I have to EZrun esc's I have taken them apart, they may be similar to the MMM but they are on a lower standard. I imagine this copy is of the same standards.

I have personally been to the actual Castle facility in Olathe Kansas and can attest they DO design and build their circuits on site. But I am sure they get their components wherever they can get them, just like everyone else. They have their component picker/placers (whatever their technical name is), and soldering systems in their KS site.

Most if not all of their motors are built overseas, but they are built in Castle-run factories over there and the design is Castle's (with Neu license).

BigBagTaz, please refrain from posting information that is untrue, and really downright slanderous.

I just looked at that Toro page and noticed that their rotors are not wrapped at all. I wonder how well they'll hold up spinning at 40,000rpm+?

That system does look a LOT like the MMM system through, particularly the brain board. And the program card looks suspiciously familiar as well.

Motors seem to be 9 slot stator and 6 slot rotor. kinda odd...

Yeah, lack of wrapping on the rotor is rather iffy, especially with those 6 big magnets just stuck to the core like that- if it was done well, it might be a beasty motor, but I think it'll end up grenading like that kid's did back along who had another cheap MMM motor clone.

And yeah, Castle have posted indepth photo tours of their manufacturing facility on rc-monster; chips are sourced overseas ( same with 99% of every other electrical appliance ) but are assembled in the USA by American Engineers ( it does actually state this on Castle's website too ). I do dislike listening to ill-informed people spouting off.... :no:

Brain board looks mighty similar to the old Castle brain board. Looking closely I can see that a few items have been moved around for it not to be considered a total clone. But why worry really? Castle new brain boards are smaller.

old boards comparison
http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...%20esc/023.jpg

http://forum.rcdesign.ru/attachment....7&d=1289747862




Newer board

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...c/DSCF0238.jpg

Translated page, FYI...

http://translate.google.com/translat...7.html&act=url

good read...my favorites:

Good people have brought another set of "our brothers".

Sasha, what is the fear of a motor?

:wink:

Don't forget the chamomile and jellyfish......... :lol:

To me it looks like they are trying to make it look similar to the Tekin RX8 with the red heatsink and solder posts.

The company that states they distributes these Toro ESC is the same that copied RCM slipperential.These ESC are also available on various China RC websites.

It's often said impersonation is the highest form of flattery. Still though most people in the brushless scene wouldn't waste a dime on the Chinese electronics. Lipos maybe but for me it will be castle thank you. Not to mention I could hardly read/comprehend that page or even communicate with a rep or tech support.

i have 2 hobby wing esc and they are great and i run them side by side with castle i have push their 150 amp esc on my 8th well above 90 mph........so before you knock em try em

No thanks don't need to or want to. My castle stuff has worked well for a long time so no reason to change it for some unproven off brand. I race alot and love how my castle stuff just runs and runs. Not to mention the treatment I have received as a customer from them. I already hate that to afford to race three classes I have to buy china batts and how much of our other stuff is from china so I am happy to support a REAL American company that supports it's customers. Rare but much apreciated by many.

Greetings
This has fallen into in personally my hands Toro Combo
Naturally I right after the first starts also have disassembled it, aim to accustom it some water aren't afraid.

Sensations from regulator work
From a mamba of differences isn't present, only one difference is not a mamba, that is Chineses have copied processor work completely, I do not know as it at them has turned out...
On start торо the motor precisely also peeps as МММ в3 в4 start just the same, the brake is very similar
Work transients at start dispersal, all one in one.

On gland
The processor - C8051F310
BEC фет - TGE
Voltage Regulator - PAK
The driver others - IR S2101
Power Fet nmtd4833N but seemed to me that they of a suspicious kind
capacitors SWC 470mF 35V GL (m)
cooler YM0503pvs1 5v 0.14A

Marks on power payment SK8102
7/4/2010
To payment of brains Sk8102a

It is a little photos

http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../121881094.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../121881097.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../121881102.jpg

The Heatsink is planted on thermoconductive glue
Very much sits tight

http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../121881109.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../121881123.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../121881121.jpg

In the rest except Toro's glue it is very easy to assort Pajaitsja it very easily, it is felt малок quantity of layers of copper, Over МММ it is necessary seriously will work

http://photofile.ru/users/berserk80/96554857/

Great pictures, thanks for the write up.

looks good!

the magnets of the motor reminds me of the six-pole motors used for boats; the brand is "tenshock", make great motors, has been already discussed here. the six poles should provide loads of torque!!

the way the magnets are held, they don't require any kevlar or carbon bonding. they can be damaged and then the motor is damaged (happened to me twice).

btw, I have less problems with my cheapo HK 150a ESC then with the losi Xcelorin. My Leopard motor works just flawlessly too. The service of many brands and companies in asia are a lot better then many in Europe(just ask the guys about customer service at mgm compro...).

that asia vs. america/europe discussion is kind of senseless to me... for me, most of the chinese brands just try harder.

I like the "Exhibited to the public of this outrageous offal"

Hello, I had contact to after sales service of these esc?
Today, after connecting the lipo, my toro8 died. Unusual sounds and odor.
In 5 seconds, the esc was hot. He's dead!
Send mail to the manufacturer and seller. I hope to have guaranteed response.
Even the LED lights. I think the internal bec burn.
Greetings

Well, this is where you run into issues with these type of ESC. They may work just fine, but when you need help, you might have a hard time getting it.

Good luck, hope you get the issue resolved.

I'm not convinced on these 6 pole motors, they look like the magnets could easily come off.

The motor торо 2560
42*69mm
Resistance of a winding 4.7mOhm@1.00A
Resistance with wires 7mOhm
It is long wires 240мм 12AWG
rotor 21mm*40mm 6 pole
Io-4.29A @16.3v (Eagle tree)

http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../122193000.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../122193001.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../122193004.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../122193005.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../122193007.jpg
http://berserk80.users.photofile.ru/.../122193008.jpg

Other photos торо http://photofile.ru/users/berserk80/#

The toro motors are at HK now even cheeper same with the esc

motor http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...dProduct=14632

esc http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...dProduct=14635

I love my castle products and great support without a doubt
but not everyone can afford $300.00 for a motor esc combo or 180.00 for a motor on top of the base modle price

this can be had for less then $150.00 shipped with the program card

if they had a 1518 sized motor or 1520 I would try it because I cant swing the 125.00 they are selling for on ebay because I missed the castle clearance due to bills at the time. 80.00 I can do but untill I find that awsome buy I'm stuck

That motor looks great. Same size as 1515/1y right?

Motor looks "ok". No load current of 4.29A seems a tad high though. What is the lamination thickness of the "core"? Also, I personally would like to see a Kevlar wrapper rotor. Remember, inexpensive products usually means corners were cut somewhere...

These are the same motors Patrick based that write-up comparison on, and he said probably somewhere between 0.35-0.50mm, about double the thickness of what Castle uses.

Are those magnets normal size for a 1/8 motor? It just seems like in the pics the magnets are relatively small and there is lots of "filler" material. Or is that just how a 6-pole is designed?

Hmm. I thought he was comparing to some HK motor.

This motor looks passable for a low budget motor, if you are ok with the whole China cloning issue and lower efficiency. But the rotor really needs to be wrapped - would add a lot to the reliability of the motor IMO.

Those magnets look fairly typical for a 6 pole motor. They could be a bit small, or maybe the magnets are a typical size but mounted on a larger than normal rotor.

They are the same, just rebranded for HK. Or maybe HK is the OEM for the Toro brand? You never know with these clandestine Chinese companies :wink:

They said the factory and told me to contact the seller to forward it to the skyrc (manufacturer). According manufactures repair and transportation costs are borne by the manufacturer. But the salesman told me only that I send, but I shy away from free shipping comments. At least they answered emails within hours.
They are good intentions on their part.

The number one financial gripe of the USA with china is It's stealing of intellectual property.They will copy anything.And China seems to be ok with this.Not very honorable in my opinion.

The 6 pole concept does interest me. 6 poles on the rotor and 9 teeth in the stator field. This could add up to alot more torque.

The rotor not being wrapped is one corner that was cut.

They should have oversized the bearings, look a tad small to me.

They should have also used the thin field laminations.

Also, take a look at the stator field. The space between the teeth for the winding wire is quite small. This limited them on the number of strands they could have used for the number of turns.

In other words, with longer stator teeth, more winding strands would have produced much less resistence.

True but from what I have seen we have a lot of companies that have had their products copied saying it's "illegal" and that they will sue, see their lawyers etc but are any of them actually following through with this internet forum bravado?

It's almost impossible to do in these situations. Say you are losing $100,000 in sales yearly because someone stole your design and cloned it. You can try to go after them but it will take years in court, trips overseas, and $500,000 of legal fees. And even if you do get them to stop the next day some other guy starts cloning your products and you are back at square one. It just isn't feasible.

IMO the best way for reputable companies to fight cloners is offer what they can't: higher quality products and local service and support. Also by staying one step ahead in offering unique and innovative products. Build customer loyalty and you have less to worry about losing them to clones.

Whether you support it or not, cloning/copying will always exist. If you consider that 'imitation is the highest form of flattery' then in many respects it is validation you have the best product...the hard part is developing new products that perpetuate the benchmark

I agree with you about the bearings, laminations, etc, but those are all things that corners were cut on. The wrapping of the stator would help reliability to keep the system running, the rest would just improve efficiency and it is a budget motor after all.