Sensored for 8th scale?
 

Hey guys,
Still looking around at motors for the MBX. I was thinking about maybe going with a sensored aveox setup. I have previously run an aveox 1409/1.5 and L160 rc esc in an emaxx and it was very nice and smooth, liked it better than the b50 9L although it wasn't quite as fast.

So what do you guys think, maybe go with something like a 1409/1.5 or 1409/2 with an hc160rc esc. Only problem I see is the esc not being able to take an insane amount of amps (100 peak/60 cont.). But also keep in mind this car would be mainly for racing indoor on a tight super high traction clay offroad track (Bumps N Jumps in central PA for anyone familiar) not looking for insane speed runs.
Anyone have any experience with aveox besides their rc7 system?

Pat

That 1409 is a rather small motor. If you want more power, i would take a larger motor. Why use the HC160, if the current is a concern? it has got the same currenthandling as the L160.

Perhaps you can take the HC160 and take a lower kv motor (maybe even slightly bigger) and use it on a higher voltage, in order to get the currentdraw down.

The only reason I mentioned that setup is because there is one on ebay right now. My main concearn though is whether a sensored system will be able to perform well in an 8th scale. The main reason I sold the 1409/1.5 and L160rc is because at the time (4-5 years ago) everyone said that a sensored system just wasn't the way to go for a high current fast emaxx.

So heres the question I should have asked first: Are there any drawbacks/advantages in going with a sensored system over a sensorless? If I remember correctly the reason I was told to ditch sensored before years ago was because of max rpm limit or some problem at high rpm.

Thanks,
Pat

If you can find a sensored system comparable in power to a sensorless system, then go for it! The reason why most of us here run sensorless is because there aren't any sensored setups comparable in power to the sensorless setups we run. If such a sensored system came out, I think many of us would at the least be very interested in it!

Yeah you right metal man. I like the sensored part for smoothness and varible timing. I think the sensorless is very smooth to if set up right.

The Aveox is powerful like what we are using the only problem is that their software is not as good as what we are doing. I also doubt that their controller is going to hang in there with the heat.

If you really want to use Aveox, use a 1415, not 1409. If you want a new improved aveox with better efficiency and better magnets, and is sensorless, then buy a Neu Motor. That is exactly what it is. The guy who makes this helped design the Aveox motor. He just took that basic design and built on it with better magnets. The result is one hell of a motor! Here are the motors I own:
Neu
Aveox
Kontronic
Mega
Hacker
Lehner
Nemisis
Feigao
BK
Novak

The Neu is hands down the best(IMO).

@dmc, if you like it being nimble and agile, you might consider a novak HVmaxx on 4S lipo.

What does nimbleness and agility have to do with getting the novak HVmaxx system?

you're forgetting the most important and valuable ingredient i did mentioned;

4S lipo.

Harald-Hans had a movie of his maxx on 4S lipo. It was both agile AND nimble.

I have tried this setup in a hyper 7 and could not get it to work. I had it geared 12:46 and it would thermal after about 3-4 minutes. The power was ok, but could not get it to work at all. Maybe would be ok to bash around the yard with, but I don't see how anyone could get it to work at the track.

Okay, on 4S lipo it should not do that. did you tried another gearing ratio? and did you had a fan mounted? perhaps, because of it being light, a higher gearing would had result in lower temps.

I heard some novaks thermal every time, while others don't.

I would be curious to speak with someone who actually has it working in a buggy and what type of running they are doing(bashing or racing). I tried several different gear ratio's and could not get it to stop from thermalling. I personally don't think it will work for racing, but if someone has done it, lets hear about it.
P.S. I did have the fan mounted.

With Kv=4400 forget about buggy conversion, unless you have 8 or less teeth pinion for 46t spur... or 66-72t spur with pinions you have :)

It is the motor which kills HV performance, wire HV-Novak ESC with good sensored motor (aveox...) and you will see BIG difference.

Artur

The kv on that motor isn't actually 4400. I know one of the R&D guys at novak and he told me that the way they test them is different then how the rest of the motors are tested.

I do agree with you that if you put a sensored Aveox on it, the performance would be much better. Why bother though.

i have been told, under load, the hv's are more like 2700 rpms/volt although it might be wrong.

And how is that different? Kv ratings are given for the motor without load, otherwise you need to call it different and specify testing load. In general Novak's electronics are designed very well, but motors and software sometimes not.

What you mean by "Why bother though"? Have you read this thread...

Artur

GriffinRU, are the aveox motors sensor wires the same as novak's? I mean can I just plug an aveox motor into a novak esc?

You need to make some modifications to match HV interface.
Here what HV expects:
Pin #1- Black wire-ground potential
Pin #2- Orange wire-phase C
Pin #3- White wire-phase B
Pin #4- Green wire-phase A
Pin #5- Blue wire-temp control, 10 k Thermistor referenced to ground potential
Pin #6- Red wire-+ 5.0 volts =/- 10%

Aveox motor has only 5 wires, A/B/C/Power/GND. I do not remember, right now which one is which, but if you have manuals or motor itself it is not that complicated. Then substitute thermistor with pull-up resistor to set 2.7V reference.

Artur

"and how is that different?" not sure what you meant by that?
I understand how kv ratings work, I'm just saying that the person I know said don't compare our 4400kv listed to that of other common brands like Hacker because they are testing it a differnt way. He said the acutal kv on that motor would be less if it was tested the same way everyone else was tested. I have the motor, and no way it is 4400kv. I would guess between 2500-3000 is more accurate.

Why Bother- That meant why would you buy an HV system and buy an aveox motor to replace the novak motor, it just doesn't make sense to me. You would be so deep dollar wise, and still not have that great of a setup. Why not just buy something else.

Guessing is not a precision tool. And just because it doesn't get to its rated RPM in emaxx (very well known reasons), doesn't mean that it doesn't have Kv=4400. So, until you have proven data which shows that Novak's info incorrect, I will stay with Novak's data. Motor is motor and it doesn't need to be Hacker brand or like to agree with theory of operation and physics, if you wish.

Dollar wise everything is possible and e-bay is not a bad place. Soon you can get sensored motors from Feigao as well. So $250 HV-Maxx plus $60-90 Feigao (S/L/XL) Motor...

Artur
P.S. Personally, I think HV-system was designed by two different teams. While Team responsible for ESC did amazing job, motor group screw them up big, forcing them even create last minute fixes in program to make somehow system operational at all. Too bad nobody will tell you the real story... :)

Stating the obvious, "guessing is not an accurate tool" of course it is not that is why it is called a guess. :007: Also, where did I base my statement off the motor not reaching a specific RPM in a Emaxx??:032: If you read my post you would see that I was not questioning the kv based off my guess, but instead off of the word of one of the R&D people that work at Novak. You can see I live in So Cal, so not too far fetched to believe that @ So Cal raceway(my home track) I might know a few people that work @ Novak seeing this is their home race track also. You believe whatever you want, but I will choose to believe a Novak R&D person over you.

:)

Magnetic field is stronger in So Cal...

Artur

:mad:1

In general Kv number represents motors RPM @ given voltage with "0" timing.
Timing can change Kv number significantly and while most BL controllers allow you to change timing or adjust it automatically for you, Novak's ESC has this value fixed (possibly in 2 values). So as system it can perform poor, but on paper with correct timing and without load Kv=4400 can be guessed. Otherwise it is false advertisement and all Novak HV-Maxx systems can be re-called :)

Artur

http://forum.rcdesign.ru/index.php?a...=post&id=12817

You can get aveox pinout from PCB.

Artur

Sensored BL Buggy 6XL&Novak HV-MAXX
 

Here it is...
46 Spur 14 pinion
14.8V 4000mAh 4S4P Thunder powers
Artur

Awesome! How does it run?

Runs great. It is kind of problematic to run Novak in Forward/brake/reverse mode, even if you set reverse to only 45-50% it is still hard on going from reverse to forward. So, I'm running in Forward and brake mode only.

Same images, but bigger
http://forum.rcdesign.ru/index.php?a...=post&id=36577
http://forum.rcdesign.ru/index.php?a...=post&id=36578

It is only 7.7 lbs. without body.

Artur

Front torsen ring gear destroyed...
 

1/8 scale and what is that?

Artur

That doesn't look so good... Are you sure the front diff was shimmed properly?

You sure it didn't get loose from the diff?

is this because of the too hard brakes?

Hello guys, and sorry to drag this from the bottom of the pile but I remembered this post well.

Looks like Novak has revised their KV rating of the HV-Maxx motor.

http://teamnovak.com/products/brushl..._chart_web.gif

3100KV it is.

They also revised the wattage of the motor. I think it used to be 375. Now its 500.

I wonder does this mean the older motor was closer to the 4.5 version. I wonder if the newer version has less problems than the older version.

My understanding is that the only difference between the 6.5 and the older motor is the nickel plated rotor. Windings are the same.