Hobbyking stocking Baja 5b Clones!
 

http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store...dProduct=16241


399 bucks!:intello:

Thats pretty sweet! And the cheapest i have ever seen the clones for! It does not come with radio or servos though.

Hmm. It's nice to see a cheaper alternative, but buying a clone just supports thieves...

I have to agree with Brian but have to say that it is tempting. Especially if they are 100% parts compatible with the HPI. Still though it makes me wonder how they can do it (even just to copy) for that low of a price. I am guessing that materials used will not be of high quality.

This is true. But if a part breaks, an HPI part would most likely be bought to replace it. Sure HPI would lose out on the purchase price of the buggy, but in the long run after most of the parts are replaced it would pretty much be a HPI rig. I think this is a great way for the less fortunate people to get into 5th scale. And knowing that almost any LHS will have parts for it is a huge plus. The mark-up on parts is HUGE anyway, when the mark-up on the whole vehicle is hardly anything. You can still support your LHS and HPI, it is really a win win situation.

why is it only available in the AUS warehouse?

We seem to be fortunate with certain products but not others. I am sure it is only a matter of time before it hits the Euro and US warehouse too.

Yes, they probably do cut corners on materials and workmanship. Also, HPI has to pay for all the R&D to create a new vehicle like the Baja 5B which can be very expensive, and the customer pays for that. The cloners just steal the designs and duplicate the parts.

This reminds me of my hk450 helicopter. By the time I got done replacing parts its almost an align 450, but I couldnt afford the align 450 right off the batt. Align has greatly benefited from the clones. If the parts would have been different, I would have just bought more of the clone parts.
All of the other companies are all building their products overseas now so the R&D should be behind them. I'm really not sure why they couldnt offer the same prices, unless like you guys mentioned, the parts are not as strong or reliable.

I'm not going to lie, I have been against clones like this for a long time, but man, for that price it's really tempting... For an E conversion though a Baja SS kit with the fuelie stuff sold off would probably be just a bit more expensive. $400 bucks though? That's cheaper than a Revo/Flux/Most Truggies..

On a side note though, how is this sort of thing not illegal? I mean it's a 99-100% replica of the HPI Baja.

I always loved the idea of a Baja. I guess this might put me closer to that idea.


Your all forgetting one thing about HobbyKing, shipping = arm + leg

i'm game once a product has been out a while, a few years... then it seems like the copies come out. idk if there is a time limit like drugs that a patent runs out or what so the laws don't come into effect. but anyways, i would love to get one of these guys and yes i will replace parts by sending my money to hpi, or if somebody else made a better part they would get the money. if the price was close i would get the original, but we are looking at almost %50 difference, especially for those who use upgraded radio gear. i'm sure companies like hpi have bookies punching numbers who know clones will come out and their loss there is rolled into the cost of the original some how.

I added it to cart to see what the shipping charge would be and it's only $37.00 USPS priority mail! :rofl: I think this is a bit too big for priority mail, isn't it? :whistle:

My baja is a clone but 99% has been switched to upgraded parts.so if you want something cheap to drive and are going to put hop-up after hop-up it's worth it.
They do use something in the 4 series of aluminum,I found that out when I tried to de-anodize the smaller parts and they lost half there mass in 30 seconds! But I'm still running a completely stock drivetrain with NO wear,not even on the drive cups with a DS 26.5 ported marine motor, and I've seen real bajas drivetrains fail. So it seems like they skimp on good aluminum,but the steel I definately up to par. Oh,and all the plastic is a non fiber reinforced stiff type that I couldn't quite pinpoint.--josh

i thought the global priority weight limit was 70 pounds. it might be right :yes:

Happy to act as buyers agent in Sydney for a small fee :lol::lol:

I have said this before but if HPI truly owned a patent to this vehicle, it would not be sold in the US. My personal belief is that HPI bought rights to someone else's design and it was not exclusively theirs. Whoever the designer was could then allow others (or themselves) to make it as well. It's hard to say without knowing more so this is just an educated guess based on things I have seen before.

Interesting point that has indeed been raised before ( probably by you :lol: ).

Its great timing though, just add the Castle conversion kit and you have an Ebaja for only a smidgin over $1k- thats dirt cheap for such an awesome r/c.

I dont want any more r/cs ( maybe a plane and/or boat to mix things up a little bit ), but this is hecka tempting...

+1. I Have to get my truggy running before I can look into something else like this.

It is illegal, it's just pretty much impossible to enforce the laws overseas where they are made, and in HK bootlegging seems to be more or less accepted because it's a big part of their economy.

Its only illegal if a patent exists? Does HPI say they have a patent on the design?

Well I guess at the very least it's immoral and pretty shady business practice. At the most it is illegal or criminal.

I'm obviously not a lawyer, but I would guess the laws are pretty complex. Might not be as cut and dried as having a patent or not.

Given the other possibilities it may not be immoral either. Everyone is assuming that HPI is the actual designer/creator of the vehicle in question which may not be the case. I have no proof one way or the other but without evidence it's premature at best to come to a forgone conclusion.

Found this on a different forum, HPI Europe's response to the Baja clones:

Dear Baja Fans and Baja community,

HPI Racing is aware of the appearance of Baja ‘clones’ on the market and the discussions about them on internet forums and other places.

Most Forum members here have already correctly said that these are blatant copies and have nothing to do with HPI’s Baja.

However, HPI would like to make a few statements about the clones and the discussions about them:


General comments:

1. HPI welcomes all discussions about the company and its products on internet forums or anywhere else.
2. HPI is a brand well known for innovative, market-leading designs which bring new excitement to the RC world. The best examples of this include the Nitro RS4, Micro RS4, Savage and now the Baja 5B, which has clearly inspired the large-scale scene around the world. Research and development and high quality production of these products costs money. Like in all industries, product imitation discourages innovation and such products only ride on the back of successful concepts without contributing any new ideas to the industry.
3. These Baja clones are simply cheap, unauthorized copies. They are not made at the HPI factory, or any factory associated with HPI and they have got absolutely nothing to do with HPI’s production.
4. Do not be fooled by pictures. In our experience, very often these so called clones have not yet been made. A replication factory makes a few of their own components and then assembles a car using 80-90% original HPI parts that they have bought in a regular shop. With this method they appear to have a finished product with which they gauge the market. The final imitation products might not resemble the “prototype” at all and are often of even lower quality.


HPI will consider legal action in the following cases:

1. Companies use HPI’s original pictures and artwork without any authorization to market their products and to mislead customers about the origin and nature of the copy product. HPI will of course consider legal action against these copyright infringements , either against the originator, or the website carrying the copyright protected material.
2. HPI will not accept public statements on forums or websites that are simply untrue and made without any proof or are not clearly identified as an opinion. 3. HPI will consider legal action against the originators of any such statements, or the websites carrying them.
HPI will consider legal action against the factories and anybody selling or importing these blatant direct copy products into any market.
4. In particular, HPI EU will take legal action against the first importer of these cars into the EU, who would under EU law be fully responsible for ensuring the compliance of the product with the relevant EU laws.


Best regards
HPI Europe - Marketing
www.hpi-europe.com

If it were Illegal, wouldn't HPI have done something years ago when King Motor and Rovan clones started? Immoral? Perhaps, but IMO, often the main barrier to entering 5th scale is the initial start up cost, esp with a wife, a lot easier to justify $400 than $1400.

I get that man but this is around half price of any of the clones. That's why it worries me so much that they can do it for so cheap.

Clones are already cheap,I guess hobbyking gets em cheaper because they order in larger bulk than the eBay scammers.--Josh

They need to sell a roller for 200 bucks...

Have a look at harbor freight and see that you can get a full gas engine for around 100 bucks, something like the little baja 2 stroke would be very cheap. Lots of parts in a baja so the inital cost of tooling all of it up would be high, however they would sell alot at those prices...

I am tempted to buy one, but would rather a 4wd for something this size. 4 wheel motor braking would be nice, and lower weight would be good too. Should be able to get something like this down to 15lbs or less. Then you can use a smaller lighter power system.

The baja design is just too heavy. Maybe it is sturdy but it has to be to carry all of the weight, which is mainly the gas engine. BL spreads out the weight, making the need for very sturdy areas not as necessary.

Personally I would like to make a up tube/space frame and use something like the lst or savvage suspension. Keep the weight low...

I agree. If I was to go 5th scale electric I think I would use the 5th scale savage flux conversion from TCS.

A patent is given on something that is completely new or is shown to be a vast improvement on an existing item or idea. I doubt that there is anything new or innovative on the Baja 5 that would qualify for a patent.
The pictures and art work he mentioned are copyrighted and they would have a valid claim if the clone companies were to use them.
As for going after companies that import the clones, if they do not represent them as beings genuine HPI products they havn't broken any laws.
I personally resent a Major company in the industry coming on an open forum and making veiled threats. Knowing full well there is nothing they can do they would have been better off taking the high ground and remaining salient.
Disclaimer: While this holds true in the US other countries around the world may be different.

Sparky

I'd rather buy a used and beaten hpi 5b over any clone 5b.

The clones have more brittle plastic, weaker cheaper aluminum, thinner less durable rubber, cheaper bearings (some spots completely omit a bearing), ghetto electronics and NO customer support.

The weight may be a turn off to some, but with the size and weight of my fully modded 30.5 5b I have put more power to the ground than any r/c I've owned.

The trenches it digs on burnouts and the grass chunks it throws whipping shitties is just unmatchable.

The power and realism are truly on another level.

I can't wait to build an electric 5b! (in the works, coming soon)

If the patent system operated as intended the above statement would be true but sadly that isn't the case.

I'm telling you paralyzed,they really are 90% as good as a real b,mine doesnt have much original left on it.but I have had VERY little problems besides shocks with it and to be honest,the bearings that were in it were just as good as TFE's bearings and I'm still running my original fronts. The plastic is crappy,but who doesn't replace those with billet or rpm immediatley anyway? The only reason I got this used is because it was uber cheap with some hopups already,and If I had a chance I would have taken a real B over the clone too,but I'm telling you dude,the quality is still pretty good. For a conversion or alot of hopups I can't justify 1000+ on a real B.--Josh

And p.s even the motors in these are clones of cy's,LOL

I don't want to defend the clones at all (even if it isn't HPI that designed them or HPI don't have exclusive rights to the design like some suggest) but have a look at an original HPI 5B that someone has owned for more than a year. I bet you that there wouldn't be less than 80% of the parts upgraded. I hear it on heaps of forums that the clones are crap quality but these comments come from guys that have changed just about every part on their original HPI to after market hop ups.

So if someone can't afford the original and can spend a little bit of money at a time for a few hop ups then I think that these clones are a good choice. But then while HPI might not have exclusive right to the Baja design I doubt that the manufacturers have paid for their right to use the design. :angel::neutral::diablo:

Anyway I am thinking of buying a genuine 5B ss kit and then sell the engine and all it's ancillaries to to pay for some of the Castle conversion kit.

So if I buy one will I be banned?

Seriously though Hpi is making money off these things in some ways. I imagine if I were to buy one it would be a clone, since it is within my price range, and I would pack it full of HPI parts or hopups of that degree as I progress.

I understand there are a lot here that believe in doing the right thing especially since the RCMonster splipperential has been cloned, but these guys have an advantage. That is price.

I do not own a RCM Slipperential or a copy of it, and I would buy Mikes over the copy to support him and this site since I enjoy his products as well as this community.

This fake Baja on the other hand may make its way into my possession some day. I will most likely be ridiculed for it, but you never know maybe I will just tell you all that it is a used Baja and avoid the criticism. If I never told you would you be able to tell?

Sorry for the slight trolling, but I really bummed out over all the arguments we have regarding laws that are set in place for the rich to stay rich.

Patent laws aren't used today for the same reasons they were created.

very good point- nobody here leaves anything stock, so why not start with a clone.

I've learned over the years that anything I build turns into 90% aftermarket products anyway, so my e5b build is starting from the ground up. No base car, clone or real.

Whenever I start a build with a base vehicle it all gets replaced except maybe the fasteners.

You guys will LOVE:love: my e5b!

Like i said before....HPI makes plenty of money on the clones...as they break and are replaced with HPI parts. As we all know, r/c vehicles, as well as 1:1 vehicles are worth more as parts anyway. Honestly I would not be more surprised if HPI made MORE money from the clones if they eventually are replced with HPI parts. Think about the money they spend on paying people to put them together, the money it costs for them to make/buy the parts that they assemble the car with.....just so they can turn around and sell the whole shebang for pennies on the dollar what it would be worth as parts. When someone buys a clone they dont have to worry about the little money they make on a RTR, but instead rake in the dough when those parts break and are replaced with genuine HPI stuff

Hey guys, I thought you might get a kick out of this:

http://www.alibaba.com/trade/search?...oduct_en&fsb=y

Sweet Moses....

Isnt Alibaba a scam site?

Not that Im aware of- its basically a hub to locate the factories and warehouses that can churn out high numbers of products for companies to then rebrand and sell on for $$$$. There are 1900-odd different bajas listed, something for everyone ( some factories even do single purchases vs large minimum orders ) :lol: