5t savage project ponderings...
 

So I have had a savage 5t chassis laying around here for a while, and was thinking it would be a nice project to use the new castle 5th scale stuff in. Would run some moab xl tires I have on std mt wheels, for the right look. Tires would have to be sectioned, but I have done this before.

Currently I have:

5t chassis, modded for a 1/4 scale servo
couple of nitro savvy transmissions
Proline 5t body
8s worth of 5300 30c lipos
lots of al stock
wheels and tires

Ok, so here is my idea. Use the new 2080 cc motor with mike's mod 1.5 pinions meshing with a mod 1.5 spur in a custom center bulkhead design. Run dogbones front and rear to the diffs. Would likely use Cen diffs, as they need to be sturdy. Would also use GH al bulkheads, so no flex issues.

No center slipper, so I am hoping that the 8mm motor shaft and a 10mm output shaft off the spur will hold up.

Motor would be held in via a mount system very similar to the flux. 2 clamps would fit over the motor, and bolt to a platform between the tvps. The clamps would be bolted to slotted holes for mesh adjustment. Center drive would be located in the center area of the chassis, with the motor in the back and the lipos in the front inside of the tvps.

Making the clamps would be simple, as the cc motor is just about 2.25" diameter, a metal hole saw in the drill press could cut the hole out f suitable al stock, then notch the side and drill thru and tap to allow the clamp to compress around the can. Pretty simple, and I can make it. Might get the machinist to make the center drive bulks, as they need to be recessed to holfd bearings, and everything needs to be parallel and square.

Ok, so tell me what I have not thought about, or what I have wrong...

Oh yeah, spur will be 303 stainless, 50t mod 1.5 from sdp-si. It does have a setscrew, and should wear ok against the rcm pinions. Depending on how I mount the motor I may not be able to go any smaller with the spur, as the large motor, plus about 20-25mm for the motor clamps thickness and the platform will cause issues with contact with the center drive outdrive cups.

Hmm, need to do some more match and see if this will work...

I would just use the flux bulletproof diffs over the Cen units, i think they are just as strong if not stronger and are available everywhere. Cen diffs are much harder to come by I think

So you think those diffs in al bulks will handle the power? I do not plan to run very heavy wheels and tires, and I can imagine the weight with batts will be around 18-19lbs.

For sure. I only know of ONE HPI BP diff failure (that i have read about anyway) and it was just one tooth on the ring-gear that broke off.

Weren't people swapping to the CEN diffs before the BP came out? Either way, Jayhay(?) on this forum runs BP diffs in a big db17 savage with big wheels and he raves about them. Pretty sure he has alum bulks though too.

I was sad to see this one get shelved last year, hope to see it completed. 2028 power tho? :gasp: You're a sick puppy!

reads like a well planed project, most of the parts you need to make are pretty simple and it doesnt sound like you are trying to reinvent the wheel so it should be pretty quick from start to finish, i look foward to seeing your progess

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys.

Thinking the mod 1.5 gears may be a problem, but I do want something stronger than mod 1 and the availability and price of pinions from Mike makes this project alot easier on the wallet. That is always a concern for me, try to keep the costs down and the inovation up!

Can anyone give me a dimension between the tvps on a savage? All of them should be the same.

Just purchased a pair of GH bulks and integy rear carriers... Time to score the BP diffs and figure out the dogbone situation.

TCS has the best price on diffs, but you can get the whole bulkhead with the BP ones off ebay for about 35-40$.

I think 2028 will be way overkill for the Savage, 1717 would be enough but it's only 45k RPM.

Also check the Woodster 5T body, cheaper than PL and more durable: http://www.davesmotors.com/s.nl/c.88...t.A/id.7855/.f
http://woodsterlidz.com/index.html

I already have the pl body. But I do like the way that woodster looks, might have to get that.

I will try ebay, as i need some bulkheads as well.

Ok, so people seem to think the 1717 will do. More questions:

Will the flux tranny be able to handle the 1717 in a 5t chassis? I see that hpi makes an upgrade for the top tranny gears, good idea?

My actually hpi 5t chassis places the tranny right in the middle, and the motor behind it. I have the flm nitro to electric motor mount, and will have to make a new front upright for it to interface with the 1717, as well as a rear cradle that has the correct radius to match the 1717 can diameter. Pretty easy there.

My 5t chassis is setup with a 1/4 scale servo, and I would like to run a single 6s pack infront of the tranny, behind / above the steering posts.

I only run 6S, but they handle it fine. Mine weights in about 17lbs. What I kept breaking was the axles.

As to motor, I'm swapping over to a 1520 with a center diff. Then again I'm only planning on 6S with mine.

Would definetly run the HD gears for the tranny. I had a lot of wear with the standard stuff and switched over and have had minimal wear thus far.

My current setup has a single 5S and 6S batteries (see my thread here for pics) inside the TVPs up front between the battery box and transmission. For the center diff conversion I'm switching to going with two 3S on each side to lower the CoG. The battery tray does need to setup rather high to allow clearance for the front dogbone.

i say do the 2026, much better project, 1717 was last years toy, go big or go home, this is rc monster after all

Yeah, the big CC motor would be cool to do.

But I found out some rather depressing info today. Decided that I need to put some bulks on the 5t chassis and see what it would look like mocked up under the proline 5t body. Well I did that and ended up with a 19" wheelbase. The proline body really needs around 21-21.5" wb to look right. Will probably go with the redcat rampage body, as it will fit the 19" WB better.

Also had some issues with the rear hubs. They are atomic brand, and did not include new lower hingepins. They do have spacers, but the pin is too long as the stock carrier sits outside the arm, and this hub sits inside. I guess I will have to find some sort of suitable pin that is the correct lenght... BS if you ask me.

Gearing time!!!

So I plan to use the 1717 motor. Got it to fit perfectly on an old flm electric motor mount, the one designed to bolt to a nitro savage motor plate. Thats right, no cutting or anything, bolts right on and just touches the bottom of the bracket, no flex!!! I do not see this part on flm anymore, but I will take pics for you guys!

Plan to use a 47t steel spur and a 16t rcm pinion. I have enough room to fit that without the pinion contacting with the side of the tvp, and there is enough sliding adjustment in the nitro motor plate to get good mesh.

Now with that gearing and a std flux tranny this thing would be slow. So I just picked up the 39t idler kit. Basically the flux is locked in 1st gear (old savvy 2sp nitro tranny) and the 39t idler kit locks it in 2nd gear, 1.54:1 reduction. That with the 29/9 of the bullet proof diffs should give me right around 45mph with 6.5" tall tires.

Also bought the HD input gear cluster for the flux, as those wear from what I have heard. Keep in mind my only other savage was a 25 with a 14xl on 8s lipo with a 2sp and mech brakes. Never could keep a diff in it for long.

Calc:

Differential Ratio: 3.2222222222222223 - BP diffs
Transmission Ratio: 1.5366847826086955 - 39t idler with 23t top gear
Other Ratio: 1
Spur Tooth Count: 47 - stock X ss spur
Pinion Tooth Count: 16 - rcm pinion
Total Voltage: 22.20
Motor KV: 1580 - 1717
Tire Diameter (inches): 6.5 - average of what I may run
Tire Ballooning (inches): 0
Motor Current Draw: 0
Motor Coil Resistance: 0
Spur/Pinion Ratio: 2.94 : 1
Total Ratio: 14.54515 : 1
Tire Circumference (inches): 20.42 inches (518.68 mm)
Rollout: 1.40:1
Total Motor Speed: 35076 RPM
Vehicle Speed: 46.63 mph (74.91 km/h)
Effective KV Value: 1580

Thoughts? Not going to be a 5t but it will be a big bad MT...

What's all this talk about CC 2080, 2026? Where can I read up on these motors? I could only find the 2028 one.

I guess we all mean the same motor... The 2028.

Here are some pics, enjoy.

You can see how the atomic hubs fit, need a few shims to get the slack out. Bearings fit well so i guess I cannot complain.

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4654.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4653.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4652.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4651.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4650.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4649.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4648.jpg

Looking forward to seeing this built completed. I wonder, how big is the 5t chassis compared to the DB-176DB 17 has a wheelbase of 448mm (17.6 inches.)

Also, I currently have the stock hubs on a Flux of mine, and the rear, as well as the front obviously, have turnbuckles? Do you need to get aftemarket ones in order to remove the need for turnbuckles? I see that yours are in a set position. I didn't realise this before earlier..

These eliminate the rear turnbuckles:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXWSY0&P=7

Have those coming as well. Ordered them a few days ago.

This chassis, which is not the savage 5t chassis as I found out yesterday even though the guy who sold it to me said it was...

Wheelbase here is 19", so the redcat rampage 5th scale body should fit it just fine. I will have to order one and see how the width looks, may have to go with the XL axles to get the width to look right.

The hubs that vortex linked will eliminate the rear turnbuckles, and they look just like the atomic ones I have pictured above.

Have you actually read any of the forum posts?!!! There are three or four builds of 5T conversion at very least.

5T is 22.4" wheelbase; most of the "5T" conversion the same wheelbase. Mine is going to be about 22" when I convert to center diff just because of the dogbone lengths I can get easily.

Yeah, I thought this was a 5t length tvp setup, but it is not. I have no idea where it came from, looks to have been made by a large stamping machine so it is not likely a one off. But it is not long enough to be the hpi savage 5t chassis, and it does not quite look like it either. Not hand made that is for sure.

Anyone have a list of stretched tvps made by ?

Probably yes. Although watch out for breaking the axles where the threads begin, especially with the heavier vehicle and wheels. Check my thread for what I had done to use 24mm Baja hubs on Savage XL axles.

Or you could convert to using truggy suspensions instead of Savage too. Jamie @ FLM said he is working on 17mm-24mm adapters, so we'll see. If he comes out with them I may try and switch to using truggy arms.

If I was going to do something I would make lower arms that would mount to the savage and accept lsts hub carriers. Lst wheel cvds are longer than savage dogbones. Plus they have 8mm truggy style axles, and just about any hex adapter will fit. I will have to compare them and see what kind of with difference to expect. I know people go with CEN cvds and arms, those are wider.

The CEN Gensis?

Why not just use the lower arms from the XXL? Just need to probably remove some material from the bulkhead.

I checked the wheel driveshaft length on the lst2, not much more than 1/4" more in length so not worth the time.

Yes, I have seen people use the big cen genesis arms and driveshafts on the savage.

Here are a few pics with wheels on. I got measurements for the Redcat rampage body and it is 10.25" wide. So I think at 18" width now it will look a bit too narrow. Does anyone know how much wider the xl axles make the truck? Look at the pics it does not look like 1/2" per side, maybe less than that?

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4658.jpg
http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...p/DSCF4657.jpg

Just looking at my own pics, think the chassis could use a brace where the material was removed for motor clearance. Something like an upside down U that bolts in front and behind the motor and goes over the top of it.

Very poorly done pic, just to give an idea of what I am suggesting:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...DSCF4657-1.jpg

~45 mm (Savage) vs ~60mm (Savage XL), so about a little over a .5 inch total, not per side.

http://www.hpiracing.com/kitinfo/10515/

That says 25mm wider.

XL axles add about 1cm/ half an inch on each side. Desperado baja rims add offset too.

I think you're right about the width, the inside edge of the tires will be pretty close to the body if your 18" measurement is to the outside edge of the tires. Integy has extended hexes in a variety of lengths up to 30mm I think. Idk what the xl ones are. You're brace idea for the motor area couldn't hurt, it is going to be a heavy truck after all. Could make another brace for the other side and put a spreader between them making it a grab handle too.

Btw, I've heard the Redcat bodies arent that durable, the lexan is kind of brittle instead of flexible and that reinforcement is a good idea in some areas.

Almost does not seem worth it to buy the xl xles and spacers... Need to do some measuring to see how the redcat body will look. Any other ideas for a body that will fit a 19" wb truck?

I would be really interested to see what that chassis you have was made for. Maybe some of the HotBodies stuff? Twinzilla? Truckzilla?

Yeah, possibly... Who knows. If anyone runs across a savage based truck with a 19" wb that will likely be where these tvps came from.

Well I looked and it is not the hotbodies truckzilla and twinzilla.

I have decided to make my own tvps that will do a 21.5" wheelbase. Not being able to use the 5t body I have here is just ticking me off. So I will finish the stretched chassis (15"wb) savage since it is close to being done, then move on to making another set of tvps.

Any interest for this 19" wb chassis? It comes with the center dogbones (both are the same length and a XL rear center driveshaft) and it fits any savage. I will test the flux motor plate on it, but it looks to fit just fine. Has a 1/4 scale servo mounted to it as well.

Ok, thinking this chassis might be an older new era ext chassis. They list HSV144V3 chassis, and it looks alot like this one. It is made of thicker material but it does say V3 so they may have changed it. They do say it has an 18" wb and this chassis I have when measured give a 19" wheelbase. But it looks very similar to me. Maybe I have it figured out?

21.5"? You realize the Baja 5B/T/SC are 22.4" wheelbase? :)

The baja body I have is the proline body 5t body that fits the 5b. Not sure if the wheelbase is different, but I will have a finalized dimension when I put the rc alloys front driveshaft in and measure the result. Will do that later and see how the body looks. But rough math puts me somewhere around 22 to 21.5" for wheelbase.