LST2 CVD on Savage?
 

Reading this thread makes me feel that the LST2 cvd can be used with minor modification. If this is possible, savage can have the strongest cvds out there!

http://traxxas.com/forums/showthread...things/page16&

Anyone tried this before?

You would have to use the lst c hub and knuckle as well as the cvd, as the inner bearing captures the cvd pivot pin. And at that point you might as well use the lst arms as they will be the correct length as the lst cvd is slightly longer than a savvy dogbone.

And after putting a set of hd savvy dogbones in I have a feeling they are stronger than the lst cvds. Maybe the cen genesis cvd would be a better choice?

I have seen some savvy owners put the complete cen arm assys on their trucks, wider and stronger.

I still think the lst is a better truck, and if you want cen stuff just buy the whole cen trcuk as it is just like a giant savvy anyways. Very similar designs. Just my take on it all.

I was able to get LST2 axles in my Hot Bodies Lightning Stadium Pro2 so theres hope for the Savy.

Maybe the pin can be secured using something else. This guy tried using o-rings to secure the pin. http://www.rctech.net/forum/monster-...cvds-maxx.html.

As for the length, I really hope someone could help on the dimensions of the cvd. Mistercrash has been successfully using these cvds on the e-revo after shortening the axle by drilling another hole for the pin that goes into the hexes. and he did 100 backflips using these cvds with 6s and they are still perfectly ok!

I have read about the SHD dog bones and the cups cracked with 6s. They are strong but not as strong enough. Maybe because of the material or the temper processes since the diameter of the SHD dogbone and LST2 cvd shafts are both 5mm.

Thanks linc. I have read your feedback on lst and savage. I do agree but I think I'll keep my savage as I have bought too many hop-ups for it :(

I like what he did with the revo conversion.

I will be assembling a set of savage bulks tomorrow (hopefully) so I will see how a lst2 cvd fits. I have put some serious power thru my cvds on my lst2 and they are doing just fine. Losi make some good parts, I would not doubt they are better than the hpi stuff.

I feel your pain with the savage, I have 2 of them and have alot tied up in upgrade parts. I am not a big fan of the tvp design, but It is realatively easy to make a long chassis with simple tools, and that is what I am doing with my 5t build.

I hope the bulletproof diffs and the shd dogbones hold up...

As for the conversion, both trucks use 8mm axles so that should not be an issue, I have some spare knuckles for the savage and will see how the hex pin hole lines up wen installed in the stock savage knuckles with stock hpi bearings. Will try to do that tomorrow.

Great! thanks linc. waiting for your update.

i converted my LST to LST2 spec, and though the LST2 axles are 100% better than the earlier ones, I still bent, rebuilt, and replaced the axles a few times and that was with a nitroburner. With the LST axles it was broken pins all the time, with the LST2 axles it was making the holes bigger that the pin goes through. I like dogbones better, much simpler.

No prob, I have the parts laying around and I did a comparison recently with the shd hpi bones and a lst2 cvd. Seemed like the lstr was slightly longer, by maybe 1/4" or so. I had thought it was alot longer, and might have been a suitable candidate for a custom longer arm mod, to widen the savvy track width. But it may be close enough to swap in with a few mods.

That is a cvd issue, the crosspins are often harder than the cvd body, causing wear to the body. No fixing that, save for a complete overhaul of the design.

The pins really need to be bigger and ride on a replaceable bronze bushing that is honed to a set clearance and greased. Sealed up tight would be good too.

i was desperately trying to work out a way of doing this, but i thought it would just be easier to stick with teh savage arms and suspension conversion kit... it would be nice to be able to use CVDs with it so we can increase steering...

I just want someone to ake SHD CVDs for the savage with 17mm Hexs! They would definitely sell!

They are not needed on the rear! Just on the front

Ok, gave it a try. The lst2 cvd is about 3/8" too long. So longer arms would be required. No way around this, that I can see. I will try putting a lst2 c hub and knuckle on the savage arms and see if that places the cvd out away from the bulk enough for it to fit.

The axle does fit in the savage hub, and if you use a lst hex on it there is about 4.5mm gap between the back of the hex and the outer hub bearing. So either a spacer or a new hole would have to be drilled (like what mister crash did).

I do see an issue, the cvd has a tapered portion where the axle goes into the cvd cup. This may place too much stress on the savage inner hub bearing race, and cause failure.

On a side note, I was suprised to see how close the savage hub bearings are to each other. People using the longer Xl axles must have bearing failures frequently, as the bearings are not that big (8x16) and are almost touching. Not so with the lst hub, it places the bearing at least 4 times farther away from each other, and the inner bearing is much bigger (still uses and 8x16 outer bearing).

Back with more info in a few.

YEP YOU ARE RIGHT

i use xl axles and full offset rims!! I replace my wheel bearings every 5-8 runs!!! TERRIBLE i know but its worth the performance gains and the crazy wide look

Please have a look into this a little more... is it possible to fit lst arms on? if you can get it to work that would be awesome and i may give it a go!

Would you like to be the test monkey haha

I can spank the test monkey...

Did a quick test fit, the lst c hub will fit with slight grinding to the savage arm, and should place the cvd out farther away from the bulk than the savage hub does. I have some spare savage arms, so they will get modded in a few, just need to finish lunch.

Ok, modded the lst c hub to fit a savvy lower arm. All I had to do was some grinding on the outside of the hub where the lower pivot pin goes thru and it fits nicely inside of the savvy arm. Hinge pin size is exactly the same.

The upper arm would have to be the ss savvy adjustable one, as the lst hub does not sit at the samer angle as the savvy hub in order to get the axles parallel with the ground.

However the stock savvy lower arm is still too short, by about 1/4" or so. Had a look at the lst lower arms and they are just under .5mm longer than the savage. No dice there. The difference in width comes from the lst bulks, it places the inner lower hingepins wider than the savage.

So we need longer lower arms and adjustable upper arms to make the lst2 cvd in a savage a reality. So close yet so far. I will post pics later, need to get back to work.

thanks for getting on the job so quickly... i really want to see pictures... when you have time.
Cheers

Sure, will get some good ones after work.

Think I have cured our issues with cen parts, stay tuned.

Issues with cen parts? can you please explain?

Pretty sure we can have some stronger cvds, and wider arms if we go with cen parts. Specifically gst parts. I have ordered lower and upper arms, hubs and driveshafts (cvd type) to try on one of my savages.

I have seen this doen before, will have to scare up pics. The driveshafts are much thicker than the shd and lst2 types. And they use a truggy style hex adapter, with a crosspin that is held via a setscrew.

The Cen axles are 10 mm and drop down to 8mm where the hex adapters mount. Bearings are 10x17x7mm, much bigger and stronger than the 8x16 in the savage.

I will use the cen gst hubs and knuckes asd they are, and they must fit the savage arms, as the truck I saw had savage lower arms on the rear and cen lower arms on the front with the cen knuckles and hubs all around. Pretty sure the cen axles will only fit the larger bulletproof diff output cups.

I have seen it done but the pics are terrible, so I bought the parts (not very expensive it you shop around) and when they come in i will give it a try.

If this worksit will cure all kinds of savvy issues, namely: Stronger axles, with larger bearings, cvd style driveshafts, stronger lower arms (?) and possibly a wider stance. The last two are up in the air, but since these parts are under the gst they must be pretty good as that is a big heavy truck.

If you believe and obviously seem to have tried and realised that the LST setup will not work which is a shame...

But that is promising about the CEN GST

Im a little confused...

The savage you saw had savage rear setup but a CEN GST Front setup...
Does this mean the arms and hubs come out the same distance? So we are not adding any extra width then? Otherwise the front would be wider than the rear?

I was looking at some CEN Parts... They look very robust and the hub/axle/shaft look extremely tough! Hopefully should increase stock savage steering throw as well without the worry of shafts popping out of the axle thanks to the cvds...

What also looks exciting, is as you said... the CEN Lower arms should fit onto a savage bulk hopefully without or with very little modding and shimming possibly???

I would definitely run some baja rims and just use a 1mm thick layer of alloy tape over the CEN GST 23mm hexs.

Please get some pics up...

Nope, the lst setup would not work unless you could find a longer lower arm that would fit all of the savage components.

Heres a pic that shows the lst lower arm next to the savage lower. Hinge pin sizes are identical, not that it helps...

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4766.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4767.jpg

Almost identical in length, the lst arm is about .5mm longer.

I am not sure exactly how the arm lengths compare but they must be pretty close to the same length. The wheels on the truck with the cen arms on the front looked to line up pretty good with the savvy arms on the rear. He was using cen hubs all the way around, and I am not sure if that widens the truck any. However, since the axles are much more sturdy and the bearings are larger I can imagine that a full offset wheel (deep dish) would work just fine and add some width.

The arms look like they will fit either inside or outside the al hinge pin braces. I am betting they fit inside, look about the same as the savage where they mount. When the hubs come in I will be able to see eexactly how they fit.

Fitting that LST Lower arm to the bulk would involve too much grinding away of the bulk mount... it would most probably make it a weak arm. So that def wont happen... Didnt realise the bulks of the LST were a little wider... THats a shame...

So only hope is that the CEN will work...

Did you say you already have the parts? or they are on order???

edit..
Just read your last post... please get some pics up when you have time! Sounds promising... maybe even a picture of the GST arm on the savage bulk?

And here are the pics of the attempted lst2 fit:

Stock hub carrier, note the raised portions around the hingepin holes:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4765.jpg

And what i had to remove to make them fit the lower savage arms:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4762.jpg

Another angle, before and after:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4764.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4763.jpg

This pic shows the lst2 axle in the savvy hub. with the hex in the stock hole there is right at 4.5mm of gap:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4761.jpg

Assembled with a savvy lower arm. I used some other items to get stuff level, and the bone end of the lst2 cvd is bottomed out in the diff output cup in this pic, note the distance from the top of the carrier to the upper arm, lower arm needs to be about 1/2" longer to get the carrier upright as it should be:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4758.jpg

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4760.jpg

And here is a shot of the stock lst lower hingepin brace as compared to the savage one. See how much wider the pins are spaced on the lst. That coupled with the slightly narrower diff makes the lst2 cvds fit, even when the lst2 and savage lower arms are the same length:

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b...e/DSCF4759.jpg

And finally a pic of DrKnow65. He sent me this for some reason, wanted to trade? I do not understand, maybe someone else will?

http://i206.photobucket.com/albums/b.../middle_26.jpg

Those are some great pictures that clearly show the problems...

WHAT A REAL SHAME!!! THAT IS SO CLOSE TO WORKING!

i can not think of another simple way around this problem...


Hopefully more luck with the CEN parts can be had

Well, finding a suitable arm to replace the savvy stock lower would be nice.

I shall start a thread, asking the rcm members to measure their arms (on their rc cars).

The cen stuff works, just not sure what I will have to do. I have a pm out to the guy with the truck I saw. Maybe he can help clear things up.

I cant really think of any potential truggy arms that would be of any use either.
The LST arms, hubs and CVDs were the only ones on my mind... But hopefully the guy gets back to you with some news...

Thanks a lot bud! i having been dying to do something like this for a while now!

I know you guys are trying to do this on the cheap, but the FLM widearm kit for the savvy is very stout and the dogbones have the lifetime warranty. I have them on my savvy and like them.

the whole point of this conversion was to use LST Hubs and CVDs and some sort of better hex system...

Firstly.. i have only heard gd things about the FLM Kit... and considering this savage im making isnt for mental jumps... i would probably consider it...

but i am against alloy arms for the obvious usual reasons...

BUT BUT BUT... maybe the extra half inch you get from the FLM Arms may actually allow the LST Hubs to work as the extended arms will give enough room for the CVDs???

What do you think linc??? obviously we wanted to do this on the cheap... but do you that would work?

If you like al arms I am sure it is the hot ticket, but I do not like al arms. Plus it is fun to figure stuff out.

Yeah, the main benefit from doing this is to get a bigger stronger axle, preferably with bigger stronger wheel bearings. Addl width is not really a huge concern of mine, cause we will only end up with about 1/2" more per side when using the lst2 cvds. Not sure if the flm kit retains the same wheel attachement as the stock savage, but from what I have read the stock savage wheel attachment is undesirable as it breaks under stress.

Linc, thank you very much for the effort! I didnt expect you would go this far to try this method. You are the man!!
Definitely will wait for the updates on the cen parts!

No prob, took me longer to find the parts in my mess (workshop) than it did to mod them. I do wonder if there is a truggy cvd that could be used with the lst hubs and stock savvy arms. The cvd is the expensive part so if we could just buy that it would make the conversion cheaper.

I will do some research.

I know, I know. I just wanted to be included in this thread and had nothing else to offer.

FWIW the dogbones are much stronger. I prefer plastic arms myself.

I hope the CEN stuff works.

i hope you find better luck with the CEN parts! for all of us really!!!

I really do not want alloy arms, but the people who do use them seem to really like them... i definitely wouldnt be doing any large jumps... but for larger extened savages with big motors, they must offer better handling and control at speed as they do not flex at high speeds like the plastic sotckers....

I was taking a serious look at the FLM arms... as much as i dont like alloy they could work really well considering the GH Alloy bulks will mean that on large tumbles, the arm wont break away from the bulk...
I do like the idea of adding a little width and then running large wheels with less off set, so there is less strain on the bearings...
Also the LST Hub is such a great design being able to use 3 bearings! If a half inch is all thats needed, and considering you have proven that the LST Hub attaches to the savage style lower arm... it could be a tempting idea to try!

Lets firstly see if the CEN parts work

Yeah, have enough cen parts on order to do on end of the truck.

I would really like to get a cvd that is solid, and the correct length to run the lst hubs on the savvy arms. That would offer the benefits or larger bearing spaced farther apart (plus the 3rd bearing that can be added), a little extra width, and the new era lst2 hubs can be used on the front (with the fixed lst2 hub on the back) as they are super strong. I have heard that steering throw is not that great on the lst2, but I have never really worried about it, I have large bashing areas, and electic has reverse!

Hmmmm... i thought the LST steering throw was meant to be better than a stock savage? Maybe not better than the HPI savage suspension conversion kit... But possibly with a little grinding here and there... it should be possible to increase it? What do you think as you have had a closer look? Also considering it uses CVDs... there is no risk of the dog bone popping out!!!

I hope the CEN arms and hubs work.. please do tell how they compare... otherwise the LST hub currently seems tempting to try with the FLM XL Alloy arms...

Considering the FLM arms are 0.5" longer than stock... do you think that is adequate to offer enough camber adjustment to get everything setup correctly? or does the LST Shaft require a little more???

THANKS BUD!

1/2 inch should do. Let me get a test bulk setup going in the next few days and i will be able to easily mock stuff up.

thanks linc... ill be waiting patiently haha...
Gives me sometime to check out my other bits needing to be done

thought i would post this vid...
My mate has just upgraded to a full alloy LST hub/knuckle New Era kit... and his LST2 seems to be handling very well..
Does the LST and LST2 have any major differences?

http://s975.photobucket.com/albums/a...t=P1020845.mp4