Castle vs Tacon vs Leopard motor review
 

<object style="height: 390px; width: 640px"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/oA4ejiBGAUg?version=3"><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"><param name="allowScriptAccess" value="always"><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/oA4ejiBGAUg?version=3" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowScriptAccess="always" width="640" height="390"></object>

Interesting comparison, would have liked to have seen temps though.

Yeah, temps are a good indication of efficiency if all motors perform closely.

Good Review, but I would've of used a better logger.

The Castle motors that I have, do all have alot of bottom end and midrange power compared to my other motors.

How can you even give a review on something that you only ran ONE battery pack through? How about running it for a month, or at least an entire race/bash day? The guy doesnt even mention that those 2 motors are CC clones.

Price of that tacon went up to the same as the leapord now.

Pretty good review, wish he would have shown internal pictures as well.

I thought it was close to worthless. No speeds, temps or internal pictures. Had the feeling of an infomercial to me. I posted a comment on URC in his thread, I'll see what kind of response he has. But the Tacon is still $59 , 114 is the cheapest 2200 I could find on ebay. So at half the price it might be viable.

I would like to see them compare the 2200 kv motors (all listed) to a feigao xl motor with similar kv. 9xl? maybe? That would give us some "bookends" so to speak, in terms of performance.

Actually, the kv would be closer to a Feigao 7XL (2382) or 8XL (2084).

For a more complete review there should have been something mentioned about warranty/service/support. I think most of us will agree that's a big factor in the value of Castle's products.

^For sure & for sure. It's pretty obvious the tacon & leopard are both castle clones, but proving it is the tricky part ( might get into trouble making claims like that even if they are true- private individual can say what they like but Jang is an URC rep as such ). A long term test and temps are sorely missing, I think this was more of a 'first impressions' kind of thing- I'd like to see a hobbywing 2000kv motor thrown in for good measure too, along with some internal pictures to make for a more indepth review.

I just ordered one, so I'll test in my E-revo and share. I have a few options to test against, Castle 2200, Xerun 4168 2250kv, and a Novak HV 4.5. All I'm gonna say about my spinning toaster of death is that it easily outperformed the 8xl I had, so I don't want to hear about how it's inappropriate :whip: Of course I'll open them up, and compare the rotor's side x side. My datalogger is on BO, but was supposed to be in mid Feb. So I should have it in time for the testing.

I'll test speeds and temps for various gearings, and I guess I'll go up to 6s, except on my toaster. Anything else specifically want to be known?

The Tacon is a leopard rebadge.I have both 4074 2200kv paid 59 bucks each.They are identical inside and out.

I did have considerable respect for the jang... I always enjoyed reading his builds over at RCU.

After watching that "mini review" I was a bit dissapointed. 1st off he is running an unlisted setup in a 1/8 buggy with god knows what battery and who knows what gearing. He does not list anything empirical other than max amp draw.

So all of the motors have close kv ratings and all are geared the same. And they are of similar construction to each other. Not a big suprise they all pull the same amps... So that is useless info.

And they all came off with the same (what he said) temps too. Fits with the amp draw.

He did not cover constuction materials or build quality. He did compare prices, and for 60 bucks the tacon sure sounds good.

How about someone puts it in a savvy flux on 6s with the stock pinion for 60mph. Then we can do some comparisons.

He is using a truggy motor in a buggy, looks like it is geared for track speeds too. And I am guessing he has a decent lipo and esc (MMM?). I am sure anyne who puts a feigao 540 s can motor in a mini t will have great success and low temps...

Seemed like a hobbypartz commercial to me. I am guessing they are advertisers on URC.

Seems like the only loss in this equation is Castle and Neu :no:

I am looking at doing several projects where I could run a knock off Castle/Neu style motor.
I'm doing my best to steer clear of them, but I admit the temptation is there.
I never wanted to be a "brand Nazi" but after having dealt with Castle for years now I guess I am into the coolaid :lol:

I want Oreo's not some generic black and white cookies.
If I'm gonna eat macaroni and cheese it had better be Craft brand.
I don't like "deck shoes", I like Vans.
Everstart batteries are for shade tree junkers, when a car is in the shop it gets an Interstate battery, because I'm a professional.

And if I'm gonna power my RC, it will be with Castle and Neu period.

Hasn't URC done the "sponsor BS" before?!?! Screw 'em, they get no respect from me.
Wanna push Maxamps, Novak, or Tekin because YOU believe they are the best? Fine by me, so long as you believe it.

Damn, what kind of cheap rip-off is Craft? Give me Kraft any day (they make vegemite :yes:)

The Leopard and Tacon were the same temp. He would not disclose the Castle temp, as he felt it was unfair. Here is a link to the thread. http://www.ultimaterc.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=120113
In all honesty the fact that he would not disclose all the info, was the only reason I bought one.

Really? How was it unfair? The temps on the castle motor were higher than the other two?

I will read the thread if I have some spare time.

On a side note I recently scored a brand new in box 1515 2200 cc motor for 75 shipped. I scour the forums for deals like these, but they can be had...

I think we can say that CC can make a better motor, the qual of parts like the lamination and bearing will be better, and you can expect the motor to last longer. Is it worth paying more? Well we used to pay 285 for a neu motor, so 160 for a cc/neu seems like a good deal to me.

Nice posts asheck.

Are the motors clones of Castle? No, if they were they would be identical from the heatsink to windings. Build qualilty would lack though. Almost all motors on the market today look alike. It's the build quality that matters.

Are the Castle 15xx motors the same as Neu's 15xx. Not really, but they are based of them. The Tekno Neu's are true Neu motors. The Tekno neu's that I have don't run the same as my Castle motors. The difference between them is the powerband.

Feigao, Nemesis, Wanderer are Hacker clones. I've used the Feigao and Nemesis before and I can say the Nemesis branded ones were a bit smoother then the Feigao. Better bearings perhaps. Peeps were buying Feigao's and liked them. Not everybody could afford a Hacker motor that cost 3 times more for the same kv.

Same situation here. Not everybody can afford a brand new good ol' Castle motor. There are plenty of people out there that would love to have a big motor, but can't afford/justify the cost. And for those people the Tacon would be just.

Honestly, I would pay an extra $10 or so if Tacon/Leopard would make the motor wires so they weren't extensions of the coil. Maybe some solder lugs like Tekin/Novak. Those stiff wires extending outside the motor in an R/C vehicle is not the best way with all the bouncing around these vehicles do.

Given the 150f temps, in a buggy, I think we can get a feel for how effecient the motor is. For 60 bucks I am sure it is a great deal. Pair it up with an inexpensive esc and you have a good bashing setup. I will still run CC motors, they are know to be good, and you cannot beat castle's service.

I aggree 100%.

This is one build factor where Castle Definately shines. :yes:

Winding wire does not tolerate being constantly flexed very well. This is one short cut they should not have taken.

When the winding extension leads break, She's done.

In the thread on URC he (Jang) claims the Castle temps can't be compared to the others because of the fins on the can. But to me it seems possible that the Castle is simply higher quality and more efficient. The lower temps could just as well be from producing less heat to begin with, not dissipating more. I base this off of Patrick's explanation of motor efficiency, lamination thickness, etc. found here:

http://www.rc-monster.com/forum/show...13&postcount=4

To really see what is causing the difference in temps we would need to know the no-load current and lamination thickness of the Leopard/Tacon motors. But I suspect they use thicker laminations and have higher no-load current.

"It all comes down to this: It's expensive to make a good quality motor. And, you get what you pay for." - Pdelcast

I own one leopard motor. The only reason for this is because the leopard has a wider range of kv's.

If CC were still producing the 1520 i would buy heaps of them. I only bought one during the sale and an hating myself for only getting one. My only gripe with CC is that they don't have a massive range of kv's with their 1/8 motors. But i can't really complain.

I have the Leopard 36-65-2100 in my RC8Be and it seems quite happy, doesn't get too warm at all. My Castle Neu 1515 2200kv in my SC8e gets hotter.

Boy, that's about as fague as Jang's review :)

lol okm, both geared 15/46, both running Turnigy 4500mah 30/40C 4s Hardcased Lipos, doing 5 minutes on the same track by the same driver.

SC8e motor came off at 135f the RC8e motor came off at 117f

The shiny part of the fins on the castle motor can throw off the reading of a temp gun. Try aiming the gun at the front or back of the motor.

I always take my temp readings from the rear end bell.

Step 1 complete. I received the Tacon today, so did a break down.

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL133.../395475642.jpg
Novak, Xerun 4168 2250kv , Tacon, and Castle.
Rotors
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL133.../395475655.jpg
Bearings.
http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL133.../395475658.jpg
The rotors are all roughly the same size, minus the Novak, which does have the longest.
I was surprised to find the 4168 uses the same sized rotor, the closed end is just shorter. But, it uses smaller bearings then the Tacon and Castle motors. The torque to turn the Tacon and the Xerun are similar, where the Castle is much stiffer.

I'm kinda in the middle of tweaking my Pede currently, but as soon as I have a nice full day, I'll do some running of these in my Revo.

I couldn't get a 150amp datalogger, they are back ordered till April. So I have a 100 that is supposed to show up tomorrow. Does anyone know if it would be worth using with these, or if I should just keep it in my smaller vehicles?

The 100A would work, but the 150A would be better for sure.

BTW the newer 50hz Eagletree is so much better then the older 10hz one.

So does a stiffer turn, mean stronger magnets, which in the end will mean more efficiency and lower temps? This should also mean higher initial inrush currents (or peak values). This could be why you need good batteries to deal with higher quality motors and why sub-standard batteries will work with sub-standard motors.

Nice work on the comparison.

No it does not. It's just the way the motor is designed. My two Tekno neu's and Tekin motor are easier to turn that my Castle motors.

Well I'm glad it let me set it to 50hz. I wasn't sure for a minute there what it was. Now it's time to see if I can figure it out.

Thanks.

The 50hz will let you capture higher watt+amp peaks and voltage dips. I was able to see the Acepow pack drop to 8 something volt under load for 0.002 of second. This was enough to disable the RX8 ESC as the voltage cutoff was enabled. I wasn't able to see this with my older 10hz version.

Are you sure that was 0.002 seconds? 50Hz equates to 20ms (0.02 seconds). Even still, that's still 5X better than 100ms.

asheck: Just be aware that setting it to 50Hz will reduce the amount of time you can capture data, and it also depends on what data you are capturing. If you just capture battery voltage and current, you might be able to last a whole run, but if you also capture other things (temperature, rpm, etc), your capture time will be shorter.

Don't worry about the 50hz. The logger has more memory and its recording algorithm is changed. I use the brushless sensor, temp sensor and gps for a whole pack and still have space after a pack.


http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z...gtpnewpack.jpg

Hmm, nice! I might have to get me one of those and sell my older 150A version. I really wish the onboard current sensor would measure accurately up to 300A though to catch those instantaneous peaks...

Yea me too. Because it would be nice to really know the true amps I was pulling for the Voltage to drop to 8.55. I use my older one for "light" duty now. I stuck Deans to it and use it for my older FMA charger, and less powerfull toys.

a gauss meter to check magnet strength would be cool.

All I'm doing at the moment is amps and volts, I don't have any add on's. But I already maxed this one out with my Pede, I'd imagine the E-revo needs atleast the 150.