Off-topic: Something for home defense?
 

I've been looking for some kind of weapon for home defense. First, I was going to get a handgun, but after reading a bit about this topic, many people prefer a shorter shotgun instead. Makes sense really; not as much potential for overpenetration, ammo is pretty cheap, gun is pretty simple/basic and relatively inexpensive.

So, my question is; out of all the shotguns out there, does anyone have any personal experience? Off the top of my head, I'd want a shorter shotgun for some maneuverability, able to hold as many shells as possible, be reliable, and inexpensive. Any thoughts?

Read this first...

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/nati...-shotguns.html

You can find relatively inexpensive Remington (or other makes) of pump action shot guns with a 16 in barrell. Look at the price of shells before you buy to see what makes the most sense for you. Since your not a hunter, you wont go through shells much - but just in case you decide to try skeet shooting - which I would highly recommmend for you (and your other half) to get comfortable with the gun. I dont think you need a magnum, but many will fire all shells (they vary by length also).

Also, something that actually gets high reviews is a can of wasp/hornet spray. Doesn't play as well with our movie inspired vision of chambering a round in the dark and taking out a can of whoop ass on the dirtbag, but in reality its a pretty good product.

Guns can make people do stupid things.... IE shoot someone that only wanted your TV...

Remington 870, they're cheap, reliable, and the sound of a pump action even with no shells involved is enough to make most would be burglars $hit there pants. You could possibly never even buy shells, pump it if needed and if they come at you it's still a pretty good weapon as a bat. You can get a 16.5" barrell, I would opt for a smooth bore if you can find one and if you want to buy shells go for 00 buck shot. Buck shot won't go through several walls with deadly force like a slug would but will have more energy at 20' than basic birdshot will, however birdshot would be a less lethal force, if you where point blank or within 20' theres still a good chance it will be deadly. Although much more expensive, however if your only going to buy a couple and hope you never have to shoot them, you can also buy the bean bag rounds for a 12 gauge.

Personally I have a few hand guns and I have a carry permit so I usually already have one near me, the rest of my guns are in a steel security cabinet. If I had the opportunity to grab any of my guns in a situation where I needed one...I would grab my Remington 870 and leave the handguns alone.

Hope this helps

If somebody breaks into your house and is armed, it doesn't matter if they only want to steal a few things. That is their risk that they are taking and if they are breaking into peoples' houses to steal stuff, there is a good chance they are some kind of drug addict and those people are dangerous, especially when confronted. I believe we have every right to give a warning to get out immediately or be shot.

If somebody broke into my house in the middle of the night, the first thing I would do is grab my shotgun and if they don't retreat when they hear me coming, they will be shot. I would rather protect my family than take my chances with threatening to call the cops on them if they don't leave.

The stupid is the dimwit that decides to enter someone's home. Stupid is also anyone that believes they are going to be Rambo when they actually hear or know someone is in their house. Your hands are going to shaking, your hearts going to be in your throat, and your going to be overreactive.

Best to go run a mile and then practice your shooting.

First things first for anyone I talk to buying a gun for self defense.

You have to accept the fact that one day you may use this gun to kill someone. You will be taking a life, albeit to protect yours and the lives of those you love, but you will be killing them none the less. I know two people that have killed someone and both cops in the line of duty. While both were right and both know this, it is not easy to deal with. Each person does this differently. My main point is to have you deal with this fact and to understand that if you are not ready to take that life, you have no business owning the gun.

That being said, the suggestions so far are right on, minus the one very naive one.

The remington 870 is a tried and true shotgun and can be found in a variety of different styles. They have a black model with composite stock and short barrel specifically for home defense. The winchester defender is another excellent model.

Me personally I like alternating buck shot with slugs in the chamber. If only one type though buck shot is your best bet.

Definitely get some practice in and get used to your gun. Nice thing about a pump action shotgun is that the sound of you chambering a round is very distinctive. Anyone with half a brain that hears that sound while breaking into your home will run away and not even bother.

Either way, if someone breaks into your home they deserve what's coming. I will not have anyone threaten mine or my families lives like that.

Just make sure you keep it way out of reach of anyone who shouldn't get their hands on it- the number of children that shoot themselves or a sibling because their parents left a loaded gun lying around is terrifying. This shotgun comes highly recommended:

[youtube]WOoUVeyaY_8[/youtube]

I have various handguns,and I have a permit to carry. I have a friend who is with SWAT,and when he was on regular patrol he worked a case where a gunman robbed a convient store clerk. The clerk had a loaded 44 magnum under the counter and was able to get the drop on the would be robber. He shot him point blank through hos chest. The gunman was able to run almost ten blocks before he fell over dead. The point is that a hand gun might buy you time,but they will not fall over dead like in the movies. I personally will use my Remington 870 pump gun. I also Leave the chamber empty so I can rack the shotgun. The first two rounds are slugs the rest isok buckshot. I would choose to fight with that over my 357mag,Barrett 9mm,my Glock 40s&w,or my Glock 357sig. If I had to choose between my family and a robber the robber is going to have a very bad day. I also recommend. Learning how to use it. I have had the fortune to shoot at the police academy training facility in north Houston and Rick learn how to shoot in stressful situations. From atone barrier. And in low light conditions. Nothing can prepare you for the real thing but it's better than going to the rang to shoot targets.

IRRC there are laws in place in most states that you can only use "lethal force" when someone's life is in danger... so if this burglar turns out to be unarmed, or you shoot them in the back, you go to prison for a loooong time...

Sorry, but one should be educated before making statements like you do.

Most states have castle laws which means if you are attempting to illegally enter or have illegally entered someone's property, they have the right to shoot and kill you. In Texas I can legally shoot you if you come over my fence.

I know very well what the laws are in my state as well as several others. Many concealed carry states also have reciprocal laws which allow you to carry concealed with your states license into their state.

To more directly address your first statement here it goes:

How do I know what the intentions are of the person breaking into my house? Should I be required to ask them first? Maybe they are only after my TV, or maybe they came to kidnap my children or rape my wife. You seem to think they have some intrinsic right to their life which supersedes my right to protect my family and my home. Sorry, I don't care what you broke into my house for, you will be shot and killed. The act of breaking into my house is illegal and you took your chances. If one doesn't want to be shot and killed, one shouldn't go breaking and entering.

As for cmac's comments about the robber running the person was either not shot in a vital area or was some type of narcotic. Maybe both. Either way, if you break into my house I will unload into you leaving no chance for you to live or run.

He was shot straight through the heart. I believe that he was on drugs though. It takes more time than you think to bleed out and if there is a mix of adrenalin and drugs they don't always go down, and yes you can defend your life anytime that you feel your life or your families life is in danger. It does not matter if you are at home or anywhere. I love living in TEXAS where law biding citizens are can defend themselves from people who don't follow the law.

The Mossburg 500 gets my vote. Its cheap and there is a ton of aftermarket support for it. My buddy has one outfitted with a folding stock, 18.5 inch barrel, minimag flashlight mount, and a sidemount shell holder.

And as far as shooting an intruder goes....make sure you kill the bastards and not just wound them! Dead people cant sue!

Thanks for the input guys! So, it looks like the Remington 870 or Mossberg 500, 16" barrel, and buckshot is the winner. What about the amount of rounds these can take. I did a little reading and there was something about shorter barrels not being able to hold as many, but I'm not an enthusiast, so maybe they were talking about the barrel underneath? I just don't want to be forced to ask the burgler/rapist/murderer if they would be so kind as to rest a second while I reload. :smile: And what about gauge? Is 16G enough, or should I go to 12G?

I agree with most people here: if anyone breaks into my home, I am not going to wait and see what their "intentions" are before I act (that sounds like your typical liberal-thinking TBH; can't "offend" the douchebag even though he is clearly at fault). I will give them one warning and one warning only (the tell-tale sound of a shotgun shell being chambered). After that, it's go time. As far as I'm concerned, any intruder gave up any of their "rights" once they violated mine. I didn't break into their house, they broke into mine. And yes, I will make sure only one or two shots are taken and are lethal; it's too chancy otherwise because they perp could be drugged up on something. Besides, 1 or 2 shots is probably all I'll have time for before things get tight.

As far as safety is concerned, the gun will be used if I have time to take it down from my hiding area and remove safety (gotta make sure the kids don't hurt themselves). But for more immediate defense, a nice aluminum baseball bat by the bedstand should suffice in a pinch.

Normally, I wouldn't go to these extremes, but it seems like there are more and more crimes nearer where I live. I'm sure part of that is due to increased desperation from the economy, but I bet a lot still has to do with the fact that criminals are almost given more rights than the victims in our great court of law.

My vote would be for 12 ga. 16 would probably suffice, but you have a lot more options with a 12, and the resale value is a little higher.

You have the tactile advantage when they enter your home. Make sure you have a box of ammo. With you. You can get a side saddle. Mine holds 6 more rounds which can buy me time. I also have the Glock 's40s&w close by for back up. Come up with a plan where the family knows what to do if someone enters our house.practice switching from shotgun to pistol. As much as I have practiced it will not come to that. What ever length barrel you get the longest extension tube you can fit so you can have as much ammo ready to go. I can't say this enough. Practice as much as you can. You are responsible for any ammo that you shoot. If you miss and it passes into your neighbors house you are liable.

Yes, good read. Short barreled shotguns and rifles require alot of paperwork, and a 200 dollar "tax stamp" for ownership. Not worth it, IMO.

I would not want to pull a can of wasp spray on a guy with a gun.

And shotguns have to legally have an 18" barrel with a 26" overall length. Rifles can have a 16" barrel, but still need to be 26" overall (with any folding stock unfolded.)

Why should I not shoot someone who is stealing my stuff? I consider my $1k tv worth more than some crack addict. Plus we have enough criminals, shooting them when you are justified is doing society a service.

18" is the legal min for a shotgun. Alot of people get this wrong, and reading the gun laws and understanding all of them is like having a 2nd job. I am not even halfway thru myself.

And an unloaded gun is just useless. Buy a baseball bat, and practice "shotgun racking sounds" with your mouth if you want...

This guy is great, watch all of his videos!

Make sure you get the guy to turn around. Then claim it was a "hate" crime. Dead people have a hard time telling their side.

Plus you never know who you will get breaking into your house in the middle of the night. Could be some kids, or a meth addict with a knife, or some sort of sex offender looking for your kids. A pump shotgun with an 18" barrel, and an 8 shot tube is a great home defense gun. Load it with 2 3/4" buck or #7 bird shot. A weapon mounted flashlight is also a requirement, so you do not shoot something you cannot see.

You have very little advantage when you are asleep. Or groggy and disorintated from just waking. A good home alarm system with an instant trigger for glass breakage and exterior doors is a must. Also you need to teach the other family members what to do as well. Getting low and in a safe place is paramount, do not want to shoot your own family.

I keep a 45 with a light next to the bed, and a 12gauge pump in my office. 45 is a reliable manstopper with hollowpoints, and should not overpenetrate (stay away from the +p rated ammo, you want 230gr "ashtrays" that move slow and impart their full energy into the target)

As for shotgun selection, pick the best priced "home defense" model of the winchester 1300, mossberg 500/590, or remington 870. No real difference save for the safety locations. And stay away from the pistol grip only guns, they may look cool, but are hard to control. I stick with a nice wood stocked gun, cause you can always "butt check" your target in the face if you decide a lead sandwich is not appropriate.

Above all get to know your gun, and take a class if you can. Saftey is the most important thing you can exercise with a gun.

Generally speaking on most shotguns, the longer the barel the more rounds it can hold. Only because under the barel is where the shells are located. The longer the barel, the more room you have to acomodate more rounds under it in the tube. Im not sure if that makes sense lol. Also Im almost 100% sure that a 16" barel = jail time! 18 is the legal limit........in more things than one! haha

I vote for the judge...

http://www.taurususa.com/video-theJudge.cfm

That would be a cool back up gun. I carry my Glock 357sig in the car.

I apologize, it's an 18.5" barrel I have on my 870 and on my brother's as well, mine is fully rifled and his is a smoothbore. It's still a pretty short gun with that barrel, easy enough to get around a house with.

I have a mossberg 590a1 next to my bed,great shotgun but a bit pricey.
Basically anything made by Winchester,Remington,mossberg,savage,benelli, or any other big names will work well for home defense.
Just remember to practice ALOT, you need to be prepared to use you're shotgun and use it well in a home invasion scenario. And honestly there are a few attachments that are a must have: a light and a side saddle shell holder. The light because both hands are now full and identifying your target is important and the side saddle to compensate for the low shell count of an 18" barrel. Also,check out the specific home defense models as they usually have these attachments already and make sure it has a decent set of tritium night siights. Lining up a shot with clay shooting sights at night sucks.

I also have all of those things. I use XS big dot Tritium night sights
http://www.xssights.com/store/handgun.html
If you have a light learn to flash the light on and off to acquire your target. You don't want your light on all the time. It will give the bad guy a easy target to shoot at. "Flash then Bang" that's my motto.

Personally 18" is plenty short enough for home defense. There is little advantage to a shorter barrel length.

A good flash light is a must for sure. Something that can be mounted on the gun is preferable. They make several flavors that you can operate easily with your left hand.

Do remember with a shotgun you do still have to aim. While you don't have to be as accurate not aiming will cause you to miss your target.

I am with the rest, getting woke up at night puts you at a strong disadvantage. Especially if you are a heavy sleeper like me. However, like linc said an alarm (don't worry about being connected to the police as most of the time they take more than 30 minutes to respond to alarm calls anyway) is integral. Also have your phone close. If you have a wife get her to hide and dial 911 and inform them you have an intruder in the house.

Make sure to discuss these things with your family so they know their part if something like this happens.

One other thing to have is on the master bedroom have a solid core door with a dead bolt. My parents always had this growing up and it will buy you time when desperately needed.

Have any of you guys ever needed to actually 'take arms' to confront a real in-the-flesh intruder?

Personally no. Although my house was robbed a couple months back. Home invasions have also been on the rise in recent years.

My brother lives in a very nice neighborhood and his neighbors house was broken into at night last year while they were home. The thief fled when he/she realized the owner had their shotgun out and had just chambered a round.

In Houston it has been the nicest neighborhoods being hit the most.

Either way it can happen. I would rather be prepared than caught empty handed. It is my right to protect my family, myself, and my property. I have no intention of giving that up.

Although, if the gov has its way, no one will be able to have guns... except the criminals of course.

They will have to pry those guns from my cold dead fingers. The bad guys are going to rob the people that have the good stuff and a lot of people think that just because they live in a nice neighborhood that they are "safe". Well that kind of thinking can get you killed. As for ever being in a situation where I could have used a gun. Yes, years ago I was over at my girlfriends apartment (now wife) and an x-boyfriend who could not take a hint kicked the front door in. Now at this point he did not know I was there. The look on his face still haunts me. At this point if I had my gun I legally could have used it (confirmed by the arresting officer). I did not have a gun, and thankfully he did not either. I beat the living S%$T out of him and all as well. If he had a gun I would not be telling this to you guys. That is when I talked to my buddy (the SWAT officer) and he set me straight. I now know what to do. If it ever happens again the fight will not last as long.

I got woken up one nite, didn't know why, didn't hear anyting. Decided to check the doors and have a look out at the cars before relieving myself and going back to bed. Turn the corner into the kitchen and there's a guy at my sliding back door, who just started trying to get it off the track. Thankfully its a newer one which is alot harder to get off the track. I guess I should be thankful he noticed me and high tailed it while I went for my bat, who knows what could've happened. I do feel safer and more confident walking my halls carrying a 12ga to investigate noises than I did that night carrying a bat though.

A large dog is much better than any alarm, my 80lb pit doesn't like strangers creeping around the house.

my father had a very similar philosophy to much of what's being displayed here. it's very possible that that philosophy led to a very unfortunate turn of events this february. i'm not typically a religious person. be that as it is, may god rest his soul. he was a phenomenal young man with a very bright future if he would have picked something and stuck to it.

instead he got mixed up with an individual who had a dr. jeckel and mr. hyde syndrome and the backing of the community. he and my brother were very good friends and he betrayed their trust. furthermore, his intentions of hurting many others in the community for personal gain became known at the wrong time. chances were the community was going to believe him, back him, support him and let everyone else fall for his actions and it became very evident... again... at the wrong time.

at that time, my brother... with a personal vendetta and being a protector and a caring individual... decided it was better for everyone for this individual not to exist any further. at the same time (obviously) he knew he couldn't face his family and (i'm sure) the legal repercussions that were to follow.

he located our dads 38 magnum, took a friends car and tracked down said individual. he put 2 hollow points in the guys chest and immediately put one in his own head. both men were in their 20's and known in the community as phenomenal individuals. as well they're both gone now and forever.

by all means guys, take every precaution available when dealing with firearms. unlike many other things, one bad decision is indefinite be it yours or someone else's decision that just so happens to be able to access your firearms. this will haunt my fathers, step mothers and my own dreams until the days we all pass, i'm sure.

anyway:
for quite some years now i've had one of these within reaching distance of my pillow...

14" forschner cimeter ... and ... dexter russell sani-safe 12" cooks knife ... for several reasons;

• in a close quarters hand to hand combat situation, the guy with the gun isn't always going to win
• lunging with a bat isn't always going to disarm a would-be shooter
• i don't have to load, reload or release a safety upon awakening
• my children know to stay away from sharp objects, especially without supervision
• my son sees a pistol and for some reason immediately thinks "toy" regardless what he's been taught (and we're strict about it)
• i don't necessarily have to aim, so if the perpetrator is in my home, i more than likely have the upper hand
• i can stop when i feel the job is done sufficiently or continue just the same with no reason to pause at all
• missing is almost undoubtedly a non-issue no matter how groggy i am and under almost any circumstances

it's late and i can't think, but that's enough reason for me already.

i wish the best to all of you and hope this doesn't bring any of you down. considering my experience i'm compelled to share a summery of my story though. sorry if it's a bummer, but i'd hate to wonder if not sharing it would lead to someone not putting that extra bit of thought into something and harm possibly coming to someone due to it.

take it easy guys.

Motion sensitive lights setup around the property makes for a great deterrent ( with cctv too perhaps ) , though I'm wondering if a civilian can buy beanbag rounds for a shotgun, or even load the shells with rock salt- still highly effective at stopping someone in their tracks without killing them unnecessarily...

Neil,
That kind of thinking can get you or you family killed. My friend Rick who is the SWAT officer had a nephew that was murdered 4 years ago. He and his boss came out to his car and saw two guy trying to steal his radio, now Rick's nephew was like rick not a guy that you want to mess with. Both he and the manager began to beat these guys up. Now in Texas this is grounds for killing these guys. At this point if he had a gun with lethal rounds they could have held them at gun point till the police got there, instead they chose to take matters into their own hands. The guy that the manager was beating up managed to get away, and ran to his truck. That punk grabbed a 45 and came back to shoot both of them in the back. If you are in a situation where you have to pull a gun you better not be faking. The only reason to pull a gun is if your life or the life of your family is in danger. In this country if someone is brave enough to try to steal something they most likely are capable of more. If you chose to confront them you don't want to bring a knife to a gun fight. Use lethal force only if you have no other option. It would be horrible to get to that point and then they have the advantage.

About 5 years ago we were camping in a state park - myself, wife, and 12 yr old daughter. Sometime around midnight or so, both my wife and I were woken up by the sound of someone working the door latch on our 5th wheel. I made my way to the door - heart was a pounding, my eyes were still very blurry, and I had no clue what I was going to do. I was standing in front of the door, as this person was fiddling with the latch. All of a sudden I heard it release and as the door swung open I launched a full power kick towards where I thought a guys head would be. About half way through the kick I realized that this would be criminal was much shorter than I anticipated, and that I had missed horribly. However, he didn't seem to have even noticed me as he started to climb the steps into the trailer, very slowly - it was then that I noticed this criminal resembled a petite female - it was our daughter sleep walking - again! Next morning she had no clue what had happened - and i was thanking my lucky stars that I had not connected with her head - I'm 6'5" 240, she was about 80 lbs at that time.

Only issue is that you will get your balls sued off if you shoot someone and do not kill them. Welcome to the USA, make sure you give the guy a cup of coffee to tip on himself, that way he can sue folgers too...

I have never actually pointed a gun at someone (cause you shoot things you point guns at, at least I do) but I did have to "display" a gun at a bum/transient once to get him to stop and turn around... I am sure I could have whooped his ass, but pointing my finger at the gun I was carrying to my truck made him turn and flee. Had he not stopped I would have shot him, end of story.

And shot gun barrel length has nothing to do with capacity... Most "field" shotguns have 28" or longer barrels and typically have a 5rd tube with a plug to limit the capacity to 3 3" shells. A home defense gun will have a longer tube, most allow 7-8 2 3/4" shells, or 1 less 3" shells. 2 3/4" is just fine for home defense, no need to go up to 3" shells, which will kick more.

I currently own 2 firearms: a Ruger Mini-14 Tactical carbine, and a Springfield XDm 9mm pistol. Bought them 90% for plinking and targets, 10% for self defense.

I agree that the shotgun would be a great home defense firearm. It's next on my list.

Might want to consider a laser sight. Usually I am not a big fan of lasers, but for this application it can be very beneficial; getting you on target in low/no light situations and under high stress. Plus, it can serve as an extremely effective deterrent. Any criminal that sees that red dot fly across the wall and land on their chest won't be sticking around to find out where it's coming from.

I don't think depending on a laser is a good option. I think they look cool and when they work it would be a good deterrent, but I think the sound of racking a shotgun is much more effective. I would not want to depend on that laser and have battery malfunction in that critical moment. I think if you are going to fight use the front sight (preferably Tritium). You could have the laser, but don't bet your life on it.

large dogs, especially intimidating ones, are also great for home security. that's why we have a doberman. he is a big, friendly, very loving dog toward family and anybody else. if there is an intruder or a threat against his family...well, he isn't so friendly.
that dog saved me from getting into a fight one night when i took him for a walk at the local park. i let him off the leash and he was just running around, chasing rabbits when a couple dudes came up to me and were looking for a fight and/or my money or something like that. as soon as the dog realized that there was conflict, he came running up to the two guys showing his teeth and growling. keep in mind, he is a full grown doberman and it is very easy tell the difference between a friendly growl and a real (evil sounding) growl. the two dudes took off, as my dog chased them and managed to bite the leg of one of them. i called the dog back as they left the park, and as soon as he heard me, he ran back to me and sat down right next to me with his fur still standing up. after that, i put his leash back on and walked home. i had never seen the 2 guys before that and i haven't seen them since then. this happened over a year ago.
this is why i never go walking at night without my dog :lol:

back on topic:
there are four things i think are essential for proper home security:
1. a good short-range gun (shotgun preferred)
2. a large, family friendly dog that DOES NOT tolerate intruders (dobermans are great for this)
3. motion sensor lights and/or CCTV monitors.
4. a family plan for the event of a break-in