On-road BL project
 

Now that Revo2 is done, I'm looking at doing another conversion. This time, something a little smaller than 1/10 scale, but bigger that 1/18 (if there is such a thing). This one will be strictly on-road (parking lots and the like). I want 2wd, have low ground clearance (~1/2"-1" max), have a very firm suspension, solid frame, ease of maintenance (where getting to one part does not involve disassembling the whole thing), and want a wide stance for cornering.

What is a good buggy-like platform for ease of finding OEM and aftermarket parts? I don't want something that will be discontinued tomorrow where parts may be hard to find.

you got gte a schumacher rascal and swap the nitor engine for a bl motor...drop it down low and put some on-road 1/10th tc tyres.

Hmmm, I think that's too small. I was thinking about something like the Jato, but I don't hear of too many people converting that and I wondered why.

Xray T1M?

Corally Mini Assassin?

Tamiya M04?

if you definitely want 2wd and something buggy-like, your best bet is an Associated B4 buggy. You'll need to make some modifications to make it into the car you're looking for, but it may just be your best starting platform.

Thanks for the suggestions. The three that Tom F suggested seem to be car frames, and 4wd. Batfish's suggestion is a little closer. I'll do a bit more research on the Associated buggy. Thanks again!

Ahh missed the 2wd bit lol

A B4 or Losi XXX would be a lot of fun i think...very light too

Yeah, I once ran my B4 with 12 nimh cells and a 480 size motor. The speed was lightning and the buggy even wheelied and flipped with the onroad tires I was using at that time.

If it's strictly on-road and 2wd and inbetween 1/10th and 1/18th, why not a 1/12th pan car? Those things are simply r o c k e t s when matched with brushless and 6 cells.

I saw at my LHS a 200mm nitro tc with a BL conversion and some high-end Ni-Mh batteries, it looked very clean and super low CG.

1/12th scale pan cars are indeed fast. I actually have a SpeedMerchant Rev.3 that I'd be willing to sell - especially with the purpose of a good project :003:
They can be set up very firm and they are VERY easy to work on. Everything is essentially mounted to one CF plate (chassis) with a motor pod in the rear.
The only issue with these cars (when used outside of the carpet world) is usually ground clearance. My car, when set up to run on the carpet, has about 3-5mm of ground clearance. You could definitely set the car up for some speed runs on asphalt by putting new tires on and not cutting them down to normal running diameters.
I'd consider 3s or 4s lipo with a 380 motor and good speed controller. Should be able to get a good 2000mah (or larger) high-discharge lipo to fit the battery location, and Quark 60A controller with a 380c motor to fit in the little thing. That could absolutely fly. Just don't hit a pebble...or a crack in the road...or a spec of dust...at those speeds :003:

Hmm, then maybe a dropped buggy might be a better solution for me. I plan to run primarily in parking lots and such where cracks, seams, and pebbles are a certainty. I don't want to send my vehicle careening into oblivion from hitting a tiny crack!

After looking at the Associated buggy, I don't particularly like the motor so far back. Won't it have a tendency to wheelie with the weight there? That's kinda why I was leaning more towards a Jato - that and both my LHS have tons of traxxas parts in stock. I won't totally discount the Associated one though - I think one place nearby has one for sale so I'll check it out.

Thanks for the suggestions!

The Associated B4 is one of the top two supported buggies for racing (the other being the Losi buggy), but if your local shop doesn't have much support for it you are likely better off with a different choice that your local shop DOES support.
Although the Jato does have the opportunity to mount the motor in front of the rear axle, that also cuts into the room you have to mount other items. Also, when I converted my Jato and raced other electric stadium trucks, I'm pretty sure the Jato was about 1 lb. heavier than the others. This has quite a bit to do with the extra weight of the transmission and aluminum chassis.
A 1/10th scale 2wd electric buggy will give you the smallest, lightest 2wd form to get you started, so that would be what I'd advise.

As I initially stated, though, your best bet is almost always to own things that your local shop supports. It will help out the shop owner and yourself at the same time.

Keep in mind that if you can't find it in your local shop, www.RC-Monster.com is just a click away and rcmonstermike@gmail.com will do everything he can to get you any parts you need! :003:

Like I said, I won't discount the B4, but the motor positioning is the first thing I saw and didn't like. I'll also take a better look at my LHS, but they seem to be mostly stocked with HPI and Traxxas parts - I could have missed some stuff though.

And, I know full well where RCM is, where do you think I'll be getting the BL stuff from? :dft012: Sometimes it's just easier and faster to get the small stuff from a local shop - ordering stuff online won't let you pick up a broken part to have you up and running the same day.

Agreed - Like I said, always support your local shop. If you don't, they won't be in business when you need them.

:003:

Batfish: I read in the Jato area where you did a Jato conversion. Got any pictures? Did you do the single speed conversion, and if so, does it allow you to use ESC brake and reverse?

The Jato transmission has a one-way bearing in the first gear, which does not allow the use of reverse by default. I did not do the single speed conversion.
I originally ran the truck with a servo for the mechanical brakes. In the second configuration, I locked the transmission into second gear, which bypassed the one-way bearing in first gear and allowed me to use the ESC for braking. In the third (and final) configuration, I unlocked 2nd gear and added a servo again for mechanical brakes.
If you want to do some custom work inside the transmission, I'm sure you can get it set up to use the ESC for braking.

Thanks. Sounds like you have a bit of experience with the Jato tranny. :)

I looked at the Jato's exploded views and I see the OWB on the first gear you are talking about (similar to the Revo actually). There is a single gear conversion for it, but it's probably the equivalent of first gear more or less, but it does look like it does away with the OWB without further mods.

What motor would push it well for high torque, high speeds, without heating up? I would think a 540 "S" size? Or is an "L" can a better choice? I'm not sure how much it weighs, but it can't be too heavy especially since it's only 2wd. As you can imagine, I'll be using lower voltage, probably 2s or 3s lipos (maybe even E-Molis). How does the rest of the drive train hold up under BL?

So, does anyone know of a good motor to use in a Jato conversion? Like I said above, cool running, high torque, and hi speed are desired. Then again, being 2wd, too much toque will tear stuff apart, so I dunno. Cell count is flexible. Would an "S" motor be too small and run hot, or should I go with an 9L or something?

I used a Lehner Basic XL4200 in my Jato. That, with an MGM 12012 and 2s lipo is what got me 37MPH on my street. That was the only time I checked the speed. That setup ran nice and cool.

I also played a little in my back yard with 3s lipo, but never measured the speed. The drivetrain held up to 3s lipo for at least the 15 minutes I ran it :003:

In the regular use of my converted Jato (racing) I ran 6-cell nimh packs with an MGM 8012 and the XL4200, and never had a problem with the drivetrain or heat.

How about a Mamba Max? It should work very well. Based on what Batfish used, the Mamba Max with the 4600 motor should work excellently.

One other note for you with the Jato - the Mod .8 spur gear that Traxxas uses on the Jato meshes up with standard 32 pitch pinions just fine. I ran regular Robinson 32 pitch pinions on a 48T Mod .8 Jato spur for 3 months with no noticeable wear.
If you wanted to go to Mod 1, the Revo spurs bolt right on to the Jato slipper assembly. It reduces your gearing options overall, but does give you the ability to easily use Mod 1 if you want.

Yet another Mod 1 option is the Associated MGT spur gears. The slipper peg holes line up with the 3 slipper screws for the Jato. This spur will stick out a little further than the stock spurs, so make sure your motor shaft is long enough and the pinion will reach. This option does require two modifications, though. First, the center hole has to be shaved out a tiny bit (maybe 1mm - I did it with my dremel and a sanding wheel) to accomodate the bearing it rides on. Second, one of the screws that hold the rock guard comes up right under the spur gear and will interfere with any gear larger than the stock Jato 48T. If you remove/relocate that screw and cut off the plastic nub, you can use a larger spur.

I used a MGT spur gear on a Revo slipper clutch unit for quite a while. If you have a 5mm drill bit, you can bore out 3 of the wholes (triangle pattern) on the slipper clutch plate and the spur gear is a nice tight fit - that doesn't stick out far.

Thanks guys. I have a place to start.

Batfish: Yeah, I figured the Jato used 32p teeth from parts in the stores. Not sure yet if I want to stick with that or go Mod1. I guess I'll have to pick up a Jato roller and go from there. I plan on coverting to single speed and use motor brake, so tranny work will be in order. While I'm at it, I'dd do any kind of drivetrain mods I can. To get better runtimes (and less current draw),, I was thinking of a slower motor, using 4s E-Molis and gearing it up, something like a XLBasic 2400?

MetalMan; The Mamba Max package does look like it would work, and relatively cheap too. Seeing the picture, those motors look to be an "S" can, is that right? With a kv of 4600, that's a 6 or 7 turn right? That's gonna suck quite a bit of current too I'm assuming. If I decide to do low cell counts, that will work fine. I'd like a bit more runtime though...

Sorry for all the newb-like questions. I've done two Revo conversions and both are relatively heavy trucks, have quite decent drivetrains, and have room for basically any reasonable amount of cells. The Jato is lighter and only 2wd, so probably has a not-so-robust drivetrain. So, I don't want to throw too much power into it and wreck everthing - then again, I DO want insane speeds (~50mph for me is insane) :)

I would go for a 1920 if you can. That would be the ultimate motor for a small light weight truck.

Brian, was that your E-Revo on ebay?

Stock 2-speed with a xl4200 and 3s lipo is right around 50mph with a 21t 32p pinion. I can say that the Jato's drivetrain is pretty strong and not at all loose, but it is all plastic gears so you can only put so much torque through it before they start stripping.
It's also nice that the rear axle diff is a geared diff instead of a ball diff. Ball diffs have a harder time coping with large amounts of torque.

Just to add this, the XL4200 and the MM 4600 motors should draw about the same current, the 4600 a slight bit more.
If you go by Feigao's turns, the 4600 could be like the loaded kv of a 7s.

The only way to get longer runtimes is to get batteries with higher capacity (Lipo) or go with higher voltage. For higher voltage, extra NiMh cells would add extra unnecessary weight - Lipo's the option for high voltage as well. For 6 NiMh cells, you're going to have a bit of a hard time coming by a motor that's powerful enough yet light enough at the same time - a Feigao 380C 6L would probably be the best choice for 380 motors (and that has a similar kv to the MM 4600 motor).

Squee: Yeah, that's my E-Revo (v1) on Ebay. I like V2 much better so I'm keeping that one. Just curious, what is a good and fair price for something like that? The proceeds from this sale will be going to the purchase of a good Lithium charger and batteries for V2 Revo.

Batfish: I'm glad the tranny and diff is strong. Like the title says, it will be for on-road use only, so it won't be subjected to the same rigors as a normal MT or buggy. Once I get the roller and get a feel for its structural strength/weight/etc, I'll have a better idea if I want to go with 3s or 4s and then an appropriate motor. I know enough of BL to know the relationship be and power. I'm leaning to a slower turning motor at higher voltage, but that depends on the physical space on the truck and the weight.

MetalMan: Feigao's chart is what I'm using to get a rough idea of the kv vs turns ratio and therefore, current draw. I'm hoping that by using higher voltage and less vehicle weight, I can keep current draw to ~80A peaks with ~20A (or less) average current draw. I figure the E-Molis might be a good pick for this. I know and realize that e-molis drop voltage after 30A or so, and I'm actually counting on this a little to help keep the "punch" down a little on take-off to protect the drivetrain.

Thanks for the assistance! Once I get going with this project, I'll post back with my progress and pics...

Just keep in mind that on-road applications typically have much more traction than off-road. This extra traction can actually be more harmful to a drivetrain than slipping in the dirt off-road.

Good point.

so brian all this talk is great but when are you actually starting?

Yes, once I raise funds from sale of my BL Revo V1 which is currently on Ebay. :)

damn show me the link. might be interested

Congrats its been sold! lol it trully is a nice truck.

Actually, not really. The guy who won sent an email saying something serious had come up and asked if he could back out. He sent a payment though to cover the eBay and Paypal costs as well as a little extra for my trouble. I figure since he did that, I'd cut him a break - after all things happen sometimes. Plus, I didn't really want to sell it for that little (was hoping for $600-$700), so I guess we all win in the long run. The only thing is, I can't start working on the next project yet. :dft004:

Crap soo close to starting a? and this project thread is going to have to move to bl fourm when you start to begin.

hey brian i hope you will get higher bids i want to see this new project start.

Yeah, it was crappy. I'm not going to relist it though as it won't even come close to what I put into it - the last auction taught me that. Oh well. I started to tear it down and found the 2nd gear was beat up pretty bad (there's a thread about this in the EMaxx area), so I'll fix that. Then, I don't know if I'll re-do this Revo later on, but at least I'll have a good tranny for this or future projects.

I might pick up the Jato in a couple of weeks or so (depending on finances), strip it, and sell the Tx/Rx, motor, EZ start, and various nitro parts to recoup some cash. However, unless I can find a bunch of stuff to sell, it will be a while before the Jato is complete.

Well, I went to my LHS to look around and saw this on the shelf. Wow, that's pretty! Has anyone converted one of these successfully?

The only thing that turned me off was the price ($400), and the fact that they didn't have any spare parts on hand. How sturdy is this buggy? How does it handle? Would it be a good alternative for what I'm looking for?

i think someone tried, don't know if they finished it. it is a very nice buggy, next generation of the hyper line of buggys. it just came out not to long ago, but must be a good buggy.