Lipo's not roar legal
 

If you race your rc's in a roar sanactioned race , you cant use your lipo batteries. They made the descistion to make lipo's ileagel to use. This blows because i was very strongly considering usig a 4s pack in my BL mbx 5 buggy.

I wonder why? Is it because of the "unfair" advantage due to reduced weight and high power, or is it because of the safety issues?

Brian from what i read it's both.

lol, thats fine! limn IT IS! or maybe some m1 cells?

nbcaz; Are you sure they aren't eliminating all Li battery types?

Good point, in sure if they are outlawing lipo's all the others would be to.

Another aspect of the lipo issue is that each individual cell would have to be approved just like nickel cells.

For example... maxamps has their 4400mah nickel cells... they are not roar legal...
in fact I don't think the IB4200/GP4300 had not been approved yet at the last roar race I was at this summer.

So even if/when lipos become legal it will only be the cells on the list that have been approved.
With the turnover rate of cells we see, and the # of sources they come from... this would be a fun game to keep up with. :)

wow....LETS START OUR OWN LEGUE! SPECIFICLY FOR ELECTRIC BRUSHLESS/LIPO! we'll call it....i have no clue what to call it!

Good idea! Since "ROAR" can be considered a cutesy name for gas engines (for the sound they make), maybe we can call our league "ARC", which can stand for Any R/C. Kinda makes sense in a way; "arc" as in electric "arc"ing...

I know, that wasn't very good.

We can call it

LAL = Lipo's are leagel
Lag = Lipo's are great
LABA = Lipo's are bad a**
LAC = Lipo's are cool :cool:

Actually brian ARC sounds pretty cool

I wonder about li ion though.

Me to leroy. The rule i read said lithium polomer batteries. It did not specificly say lithium ion or litium maganese. or the m1 cells.

I would assume that if one is illegal, then all are illegal. this is only for packs in cars, power and reciever alike, not for transmitter as far as i can tell

Here's my opinion I posted on another forum:

OMRA

open modified racing assoc.

Amen glassdoctor, sign me up

The problem i see is the power and light weight, Explosions are a non issue because of bunkers and bags for charging. I had one of my 4.4k's explode lately (didn't talk about it because i didn't want to put Austin in a bad light), but the point is that we have become complacent with NIMH/CD batteries because most have no trouble and don't see it. I have been hearing about batteries exploding and venting at major races (check the rumor mill in the latest XRC mag.) because people are charging at ludicrous amps and shorting for lower resistance. The point is every battery will blow if treated improperly. this is a money issue and the elite will win because they get their batteries free due to sponsorship. I'm glad i don't race professionally, may do the rc pro series but it will be for fun.

Instead of banning the lipos. Why not make them run there own class. I think
that would be a solution to some problems.

I like leroys suggestion about lipo's having there own class. Some people think that the battery importers & manufacturers had something to do with the ruleing.

The people with the products and money seem to have the power.
Not sure if that is right though. It seems to work that way.

I agree leroy, Its the same with the BL motors. Novak sensored motors are legal & non sensored are ileagel. The owner of novak & trinity go way way back with ROAR. I'm not saying they had anything to do with the ruleing. But people on the sgrid are wondering if they did.

If I'm not mistaken, sensorless isn't illegal, its just that none of the motors meet the rules (I wonder why...). Actually, Tekins new motor might be...

its not that the sensorless are illegal they need to be wound the same way as the sensoreds that are, and the company logo needs to be stamped or something on the endbell

A true word there, Leroy. Not just in RC, unfortunately.

... and the name has to end with a "N" and a "K"


Seriously tho, its this kinda crap that keeps me from wanting to race. I can understand the highest end of the sport (pros) needing some body of rules to keep things organized and competitive, but for avg tracks these rules are lame.

I've heard its also to keep racing in a reasonable "budget" instead of a rich man's game, but from what I see its kinda like that already. People top $ for the highest spec "race" cells, tons of equipment (cell dischargers, shorters, the like) to maintain them, tons of money on other things as well to maximize within the limiting body of rules. I guess it will be a bit like that no matter what, but still, it seems to take all teh fun out of it.

I'd rather just go to a "run what yo mama gave you" open race and let it be a proving ground for the very best setups. If you can win on magical pixie dust, good for you. Have some loose classes to keep it reasonably fair, then just let loose. I compare it to UFC vs Karate, with UFC being far more innovative and entertaining.

http://forums.radiocontrolzone.com/s...d.php?t=229049There is a thread about this on car action forums, has something to do with size and voltage problems

This has been bugging me; what ends with N and K? :confused:

Unless you meant begins with "N" and ends with "K"?

I agree with the rest of the post though. :)

Nick has his own brand? Kool! lol! I think lipos would be let in eventually. Orion and some other big name brands got lipos comming out. It only took about a year after novak started sensored brushless systems before it became legal. Mabye it'll take only a year after orion lipos come out.

The Orion Lipos have been out for some time now, I'm thinking 6 months. Maybe they will be legal for 2008?

The way i read the thread i posted above is that safety is a concernbut they are worried about the difference in overall voltage.

In NIMH's they are alway losing voltage to maintain power and eventually you will see it slow because they are drained, Where LIPO's maintain voltage to a point where the amps start to fade and voltage has to drop to get more amps.The chemestry is different and so is the power so its not fair for those who have NIMH because they are at a disadvantage. I don't see the size issue they have as a reason because the NIMH cells don't fit the rules for dimentions either. 3300,3600,3800,and 4000+cells don't fit where the 1700 and 2400's fit and were the basis for the dimention rule. I think battery manufacturers are responsible for the rule against Lipo's, they would have to spend money on new equipment to match and zap (if possible) a new set of battery packs.

The whole "fairness" thing is a line of bull. No one is stopping anyone from getting Lipos. If the people with NiMHs whine about an unfair advantage and the cost and such, they are simply in the wrong hobby, or need to set up their own league with the Tycos.

I agree with a previous post where there should be some loosely defined classes with some basic guidelines and that's it.

I agree Brian, I have never run on-road, but in off-road its setup and throttle control that wins races, not batteries

Yeah, it just sounds like an excuse for not winning; "If I had Lipos, I could win."

With the exception of safety (the idiots, not the batteries), the only reason for not allowing LIPO's is money. Battery manufacturers want to ban anything that will cut into their pie as far as racing is concerned, if lipo's were legal, they would have to climb aboard or sink and either way its going to cost them big.

Conspiracy theory's, gotta love them

I race both on-road and off-road. You're absolutely correct about off-road being more about setup and throttle control, but on-road is vastly different.
In on-road stock racing, the most important item for speed is the batteries, followed closely by the motor, then setup, then throttle control.
Serious on-road racers (those just short of the "pro" level) will only use the very latest approved cells with the highest matching numbers they can get. The minor differences in voltage actually means something to people who can run 40 laps in a row with less than .2 seconds variance in those laps. When you get to be that good, you can tell the difference between 1.222 and 1.225 volts/cell in a matched pack.

On the original topic, one thing to remember is that ROAR doesn't actually "BAN" anything, per se. What they do is choose what technologies are approved, creating a list of what you can use, based on lots of testing and 'encouragement' by various manufacturers.

Most tracks only loosely follow ROAR rules anyway, at least for club racing. I've never heard of a track that didn't allow lithium-based batteries in at least one class for club racing.
When a ROAR-sanctioned event comes to town, however, they should definitely abide by ROAR rules.

My local track will not allow them because of the vids of lipo's blowing up, the track owner is afraid of accidents

lol, my local track dont care, just dont say you got lipos. Not like they inspect yoru car. THe scary part would be if it blows up while some1 is trying to pick it from a crash (which cold have caused explssion).