Maxx Bling
 

Thought I better say hello, im in need of some info and the traxxas forum is a waste of time. Im sure you all know me, if not hello! this is my truck:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ryan.co...x/ofna/117.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ryan.co...x/ofna/115.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ryan.co...x/ofna/118.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ryan.co...x/ofna/119.jpg

http://www.ukmonsters.co.uk/Movies/e.../maxxvid10.jpg
MaxxBling - New tranny.mpg - 15.3mb

Ok, now as you can see from the vids the chassis is sorted and its easy as pie to drive so I need more power, what are my options? The truck weighs 5000g exactly RTR with 16 cells is there a more powerful setup with out loading the truck with cells?

I think on paper the feigao XL motors are more powerful than the bigmaxximum. Although if I were you ,I would be looking at something like a lehner 2240/7 or a 2250/5or6. The 2240 comes in at 2250 watts and the 2250 comes in at 2800!!!
I highly doubt the 18.97 would like either of these motors.....although theres only one way to find out.....:p

welcome
 

Welcome Ryan Coombes, I talked to you a couple of times. I am from the netherlands ans so is Rene.


I hope you will get some better talkings and info on this forum.

Nice truck...... can you do me a favor and take a side picture from the servo side, I wanna see how you got to fit 8cells flat without getting in the way of the servo. thaks....

First time I saw your truck I was amazed at how beautiful it was but made me think that its all eye candy cos you were using Integy stuff ( Yuck).... glad you changed all that to UE:) , I have almost the same truck but using Feigao 7XL and 9918 and of course a different tranny..... Sorry I had to copy you witht the escallade body slammed low... here's my truck


http://www3.telus.net/luis99/xxsupermaxx.JPG

i hope this answers your question:

the shifting servo is supposed to be flipped upside down...like the steering servo

As for the steering servo, if it is in the way, a few spacers will get that out.

hey candyman,

i am emaxx4190 on the traxxas forum. i agree, its a waste of time there. i was the one that asked you about the center slipper. well heres a couple pics of my truck. i am getting a new body tommorow. i also will be running 23mm proline wheels with bowties. We all run a simaliar setup, just different motors, but we all run 16 cells. I run the 10L. well here it is, i still need a few things to be ready to run. I will get a couple pics up tomorow with a body and wheels.

http://www.unlimitedengineering.com/...xx51305001.jpg

Superemaxx89...YOU GOT PM

Welcome candyman!
I've been watching truck since the start. I love that trany and am super inerested in it.

Nice truck candyman,
I like the center diff setup. Nice job.
What gearing are you using on the Dominator tranny?

What controller are you using?

If you go for more power using 16 cells, you'll decrease your runtime. I'm curious why you need more power than the Bigmaxximum :C:

thats not true, it increases runtime when you go up on the cell count, less amps that the motor draws.

I think he ment if you upgrade the motor while only using 16 cells your runtime will suffer.

Yes, I understand that but it sounds like candyman doesn't want to add more cells due to weight so adding power to 16 cells will decrease his runtime. I'd suggest increasing the voltage and go with a Lipo setup. Take a look at the 60 mph needs about 2000 watts.
thread.

I think that tranny would be cool with the two speed module.
I just noticed that you used two front center diff mounts along with the custom top mount. Nice Job. :cool:

Still not sure what controller that is. I'd guess a shulze since its a 4 pole motor.

Hey Ryan, long time no see..

I do agree that the Traxxas board isn't that much help.

I think if you want more power without more cells, maybe the thing to do is to go for a different power supply in which would be Li-Poly cells. Now from that point you will probably lose a bit of weight and gain a bit more power because you could probably get more voltage.

Now that being said a li-poly cell is about 3.7 volts but at full charge they are about 4.2 volts so say you use a 5s pack which would at full charge give you near 21 which would be much more than what you feed it with 16 cells. So it would be like almost running it with 18 cells Sub C NiMH.

Well from that point, if you want more power is to upgrade to a bigger badder motor.

The 7XL might be a bit more powerful motor on paper, but also on paper it would be more powerful by like say 200 Watts. Tho the BigMaxximum I believe has more torque due to the 4 pole design. Now the question is whats more efficient at its voltage ranges. Anyhow my point is the 7XL might be more powerful on paper but if it is, it isn't by much, personally I like the BigMaxximum better but thats me. I do have a 7XL and I plan on running it a bit more than the small testings I have done but with a 9918 controller in the future.
Actually now that I think about it maybe you should try the 7XL motor because its a great price, just to test it out and see how you like it against the BigMaxximum, maybe you might like it better.

The clear upgrade in my opinion from the BigMaxximum I can think of is a 22 series motor from Lehner. Now the 2230 series are the lightest of the 22 series so I would start there but I have no clue on the turns unless you know what is a good kv rating for the motor you want then you can start from there on picking your turns on the motor. If the 2230s don't satisfy maybe go for either a 2240 or a 2250.
Anyhow these will have a higher output than a BigMaxximum or a 7XL, probably a much bigger motor as well.

By the way I would try 18 cells first. I don't think adding 2 cells on to that Maxx Bling will hurt it much.. hehe.. look at mine, it fits well with 18 cells.

Your truck has gotten much lighter since its inception hehe..
Mine at this moment weighs with everything on it on 18 cells
12 lbs 14 ozs which is in grams about 5840g.

http://www.juggernaut23.com/E-Maxx%2...%20B%20022.JPG

Gearing is 12 / 56. the 56 is not an easy fit to the dominator clutch by the way.

The controller is 18.97kwf, I was a bit worried about putting 18 cells on this controller, how many runs have you done Jay?

Im not going to Lipo, thats almost definate. I may go to 18 cells, if I can get them all flat in the chassis (which I probly can). I hear you on the 7xl, Rene was saying its good, ive no doubt, but from what I hear it wont be a big increase in power, if any at all, its just a bargain of a motor. I thought the 2230 lehner was around 1700 watts? got that from BK's site i think.

Im just under 5000g now, just fitted full titanium screws :cool:
a pic of the servo:

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ryan.co...x/ofna/120.jpg

I totally understand about going to 18 cells because it will be a bit harder on the controller having already burnt one already.

Running my G-Maxx, I have only used 18 cells.
I have done about a dozen runs or so. I usually run it full throttle especially when I am a big grassy area, dirt area or field.
Only times I couldn't was because something broke especially the pinions, LOL..
My last run lasted me about 4-6 mins because it was almost all full throtlle going around in a huge field. I am still waiting on my custom hardened steel mod 1 gears which I should have very soon. (I might try to get mod1 spurs made in a plastic but that is just a maybe)

(Before I start, I know that these figures are not nominal or avg but more peak or max)
I used to think that at 18 cells vs 16 cells (21.6 volts vs 19.2 volts) equated to 83.33 amps vs 93.75 amps which I thought at 18 cells it would run cooler. But I got an email from Plettenberg telling me that I wasn't thinking correctly regarding this. That at 18 cells the BigMaxximum would pull 1800 watts vs 1600 watts on 16 cells. So in regards to that, you were correct in thinking of 16 cells would run cooler than running 18 cells because it would have to handle less power, but then I thought maybe using 18 cells might be harder on the controller in one aspect but heat and amperage would be better distributed over 18 cells than 16 or less cells meaning it would be a bit more stable. Maybe I am wrong and soon I might burn a controller but I haven't so far and I don't even run a fan even if I do have one mounted under the Schulze hehe.
Anyhow from all the runs, I think it will hold up well with 18 as long as I don't gear it to the moon.

By the way I mentioned the 2230 only for the weight but I did say the 22 series which if you really wanted more powerful motors to look into the 2240s and 2250 which would pull over 2000 watts, I haven't looked at BK's/Lehner's site for specs.

I know Rene likes the 7XL and it is a good motor for the cost but I like my BigMaxximum. Did you know that the 7XL is a bit heavier and if you took off the fan off the BigMaxximum that its shorter than the 7XL naturally?

Titanium screws.. hehe.. I thought about that..

How do you like your Aitronics 358?? U know it is a great servo but I can't get over the fact that the HRS 5995TG that now I am using in my Juggy Project has twice as more torque with almost similar speed. Crazy!! But I did give my Juggy 358 to my G-Maxx which works very well tho I would like longer throws in my steering. Do you know if you can adjust end points of servos using the servo programmer on analog servos?

I meant that I understand you because you burnt one already hehe.. I haven't burnt one yet...

Wrote it half asleep! :p

All this talk of "paper power" really isn't what gets the truck moving. the rated watts of the motor in the specs really doesn't have anything to do with how much power it gets to the ground. The lehner basic motors, for example, are rated at 700 watts, but folks have measured power output in excess of 2000 watts with those motors (obviously not for extended periods of time!). I would surmise that given the same KV value in a motor, the motor that has higher efficiency would ultimately have the highest power output due to less power loss, and the smaller motor will almost always have more "pep" in the short term. Furthermore, I would bet that a little lehner basic motor with the same Kv value as the big maximum and the same gearing on the same vehicle would probably kick its but in a race, simply because the motor itself is smaller and has less of its own mass to move(accelerate). Long term, this would not be a good idea, as the small motor (rated for 700 watts=continous watts) would eventually burn up from trying to create all the power for a long time. The advantage of the larger motors is their ability to deliver the power continuously(in other words, the larger motors won't burn out as easily because they can handle more load over time). Also, a 2 pole motor can achieve twice the rpms with any given speed controller, for pure speed, my money would go to the 2 pole motor every time. The 4 pole motor in theory has more torque and certainly puts the power out smoother at low rpms, but is also much harder on controllers.
Having stated these opinions, I think to achieve more power/speed in your truck, Ryan, you could consider a slightly smaller motor (1930 for example, which is between the "L" and "XL" Feigao/hacker motors in size) with higher voltage. Perhaps even using smaller cells (like gp2200 cells-since you are opposed to LiPo) to minimize the weight (20 of these cells can deliver the needed power at the weight of around 14-15 3300 cells, along with fitting easily on the g-maxx chassis). You wouldn't likely lose much, if any, runtime with the smaller cells (they have a similar energy density vs. the larger cells) and a slightly slower motor. Higher voltage is usually more efficient (wire can tranfer more voltage than it can amperage) and can more easily put out the power.

Just more points to ponder! :)

Nice job Mike, sounds exactly like you explained to me last night, lol... ;)

Welcome Candyman, yeah I got flamed on the Traxxas forums so I don't post there at all. I was just asking a question and next thing you know, BAM, "USE THE SEARCH TOOL NOOB!", etc, so I came here and Mike and the folks are great with feedback and assistance.

Enjoy and glad to have you aboard! Nice truck, keep up the good work!

Welcome candyman!!!

What exactly did you do to your chassis to get the diff to fit. Also what exactly do you have to buy diff wise. Thank's

candy man and chase, you both has (basically) the same trucks!

I looked at using different cells, those gp2200's in particular but I couldnt find any data on discharge rates, did you? it would have to sustain 100amps in a burst (im guessing here) and 20-30 for a time. Maybe I should get some and experiment. That would be the easiest option to run more voltage but with the same weight, this opens up a lot more options, but I would have to use a different controller.

The Plettenberg is 91 or 92% efficient, i cant remember, and that comes back after a run very hot, I dread to think what would hppen to a little motor in my truck! I guess I drive it harder than I thought.

As for what I did to the chassis to get the centre section (its not a diff, just a slipper) to fit was pretty much nothing, I didnt want to start hacking the chassis up in case I didnt like it. I have now filed the sides a bit to allow the use of a larger spur gear, but the rest of it was done with plates I made. The centre section is a "slipper unit for ofna dominator" thay have them at tower, i got mine of ebay. I will be changing the design soon as I have spotted a way to do it using less metal (less weight). Here is a pic or two of how it is now:

Jay: loving the airtronics, seems just about right to me, the hitec is tempting, good for crawling i've no doubt.

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ryan.co...xx/ofna/96.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ryan.co...xx/ofna/98.jpg

Hi Ryan!

Nice to see, you found your way to this forum ;)

I didn't knew you where powerhungry!

Here is one thing i read on a German forum;

A guy switched from motor (bigmaxximum to Lehner 2240/8) he also converted his savage to centerdiff. (very heavy build truck indeed (not in general, but the way he build it. With massice aluminium plates etc) i think a rough 1-1,5 kg heavier than your maxx and he said, that his 2240/8 had about the same power on 16 cells than his bigmaxx on 18. Knowing your unnatural silver addiction i don't know if this motor suits your needs. (though Poll®©) could help you out..

Those GP2200's, They are also 100A rated, according to the hopf-shop (A-status battery supplier) they kick out the same voltage on a 100A load than the 3300's


I want to buy a 22XX family motor. A very heavy truck (CEN .46) is able to hit the 100 km/h with a 2280 and 20 cells. (3300's). It's a heavy load for a heavy truck though i can imagine, you will be pusing your batteries to the maxx with the current it needs on such a rellative small amount amount of cells on such a HUGE motor.....

But, this becomes very interesting, what about the GP2000's?!~

35 gramms each, (10 gramms lighter than the GP2200's ) 30A continues discharge, 50A for 30 seconds and 5 seconds for 100A

How higher the voltage on most of these setups, the more efficient they get too. (and the lower the current draw will be) So you could consider a Lehner 2240/XX (10/11) , using 30 of these GP2000's (same weight as 16 gp3300's!!!!!!!)

What are you waiting for.. sell the bigmaxx and the schulze, use some good oll' elbow grease and poll on that lehner... (only downsider on this is that these GP2000's are about 5 euro's each.. Worth the investment?) Or just wait a few

That 2240 motor is able to throw out about 60 n/cm of torque, about the same weight as the bigmaxx (450g) On 18/20 GP3300's it would be a blast too.. (i would get rid of my 18.97 too, if i was buying another motor)

It would be nice if Promod dropped a little message here, he is very familliar with these highpowered setups and has got a eagletree data recorder to be the judge in his experiments.

But your question about another motor would be more powerfull on 16 cells;

I personally doubt that. The plettenberg is able to pull the maxxmimum power your cells can deliver (about 1600 watt) (100W/cell) It's the efficiency of the motor that would make a difference.. A small difference if you ask me. You need more volts to juice your maxx! All and all, the GP2200's are nice, because they fit your chassis. The GP2000's are nice too, but they need a special chassisplate to fit in nice..

The Lehner motors are topnotch motor's. all the crazy speedrecords in the water are made with these motors.

I was thinking of the gp2000's I dont have confidence thay can deliver the current. If I use more voltage I will need a new controller though, what are my options? Im thinking this is gonna end up costing a fourtune and ending up with not a lot more power. Even If I took the 2240 on 18 cells (I asume my 18.97 can handle it??) would it be worth the expense.

As Serum said, I doubt you will find a lot more power using the same cells (in other words, it wouldn't be worth the expense). The Plett, Lehner or most motors mentioned in this post can use all the available battery power, so the only difference is potentially efficiency (which is a minimal difference with these high end motors). So....more voltage is where you need to look to get more power. As Serum said, the gp2200s can deliver the needed power under a load, as well as a weight reduction (even using the same cell count with 8 oz less weight will make a slight difference), and as you increase voltage, you could potentially lower the amp draw as well, which may justify the gp2000 cells. Your truck is powerful enough that an increase in power output that is noticeable enough will likely cost a few bucks. Of course, you could sell the current setup to fund the project, if that is something you considered.

The 2240 would be too much for the 18.97 on 18 cells imo. (keeping in mind that the 18.97 is not a stable controller)

Though i know that a person uses a 2240/8 on a warrior 9918 on 16 cells (i'll take a warrior over a 18.97 though..)

I'm planning on using a 36120 or 36150 (36 cells, 120 or 150A) on the bigger lehner.

the 36120 is allready strong enough. but 'he 150A is 'only' 70 dollars more expensive.


With the high votage setups the current draw will be much smaller, due to the fact that you use a whole other kv rated motor.

The specifications of those GP2000 come from a reliable company. I don't know how much volts they can deliver though, but that they can deliver 100A pretty much says it all.


You just need to consider that 16 cells will put out a maxximum of 1600 watts.

First of all;

I would email Schulze with the gearing ratio of your truck, and ask them if it's okay to use 18 cells. I think that the 18.97 must do what it's supposed to do. And that is handling the bigmaxx on 18 cells with your gearing ratio.

If you want to go on the safe side, go with the lehner. If your planning on driving your truck with the muscles in your butt tentioned, try the bigmaxx on 18 cells. ;)

The gp2000's weigh half what my 3300's weigh, so, in theory (again) I could run 36 cells, lol, with no weight increase. If you can say for sure the 2000's will cope with the draw. The 2200's I could run 22 at the same weight. If this is correct then we could have a good setup.

The draw of a 36 cell system would be significantly lower than the draw of a 16/18 cell system. I don't think you would have any trouble at all with the gp2000 or gp2200 cells' ability to cope with the draw. The 2200s can handle similar load as the 3300s, so these won't have any trouble at all. Enough of the 2000s will reduce the amp draw enough to power the truck without breaking a sweat as well!

And those high voltages give you an ultimate efficiency as well

All you need to figure out, is ho your going to drop in those cells.

20 GP3300's can push your truck faster than you want to. (100km/h, i can't imagine that's your goal)

You could consider 18/20 cells on a 2240/8. (with a 36120 controller)

check this link to see the torquemonster on 21V in action.

It has got twice the torque of the bigmaxximum, that will push a heavy truck around quick.

With 100 amps or more current draw
 

Gp 2200 good
Gp 2000 not good


The 2000's just don't have the power output and cannot sustain 100 amps under load for any amount of time, have melted a few 20 cell packs, Ouch! in high 100+amp Drag applications. 2200's are just fine though

James

thank you for the info........................... people........... I think we are getting somewhere! :L:

Thanks for the heads up on those GP2000's.

Where those cells connected with sollid bars or spotwelded?

Ryan, i think you need to find a balance in what amount of cells fit your chassis best. (15 each side would fit in perfectly)On 30 cells your able to blast your maxx the moon.

The 2240/8 will allready be a blast on 18-20 cells. (could be used up to 24 cells)

You could consider to try a Lehner Wanderer 20xl motor (feigao XL type, other bearings and i heard Lehner is also going to use different magnets as wel, though i don't know if this is true)

The 20XL 7 or 8 would work very well on 20 cells.

Just noticed them on bk's site, says the 20 XL can be run with the 2099 warrior!! $250 or so, or the micro 20120. The motor is only $130, yet the 2240 is $370!!! whats going on?

I may be offering the wanderer motors at an even lower price! Lehner makes the 2240 motors, and they are quite expensive. BK is having the wanderer motors made in large quantity (the motors are made by Feigao, but to BK's specs with German quality bearings and the like). I also can have the items direct shipped to you from BK, so you wouldn't need to pay customs charges like you would if I shipped them from here.

ok, so im thinking the cells we have covered. The motor probably a wanderer 20XL, Rene can you do the math and work out which turn I need to have the same KV as the bigmaxximum (theres a good chap). The other question is the controller? could I run that setup with my existing 16 cell packs? (slower obviously)

Bk is trying hard to blow the competition (hacker/schulze/plettenberg) away with this controller/motor combo. And they have got a strong card in their hands as well! MGM is also a strong player on the controller market, though not yet available in highvoltage controllers.

Well, your looking for more power, so i would use 18 or 20 cells GP3300's. I know it's attractive to go with 16 cells, and you could try that to see what's the difference.

how many cells do you want to use eventually? 24 GP2200's would take a 20XL 8 or 9.. (you need a 36120 controller, so you could use a some hotter motor (8XL) and it would run nicely on 16 cells as well. (slower than the bigmaxx though..)


On 20 cells (and the warrior 9920) the 8XL should do nice, but i don't know how Lehner feels about this. Perhaps Mike can ask BK about this..

The 20XL7 is rated by BK on 2145kv, and Feigao uses another way of measuring, they get a 2386kv range on that same motor. I know that some companies use the motor as dynamo and take the RPM's needed to reach 1V, Lehner measures the motor under load. (better imo)

you have confused me now!

the fiegao figures are not under load, the BK figures are under load i think.

I would stick to 20 cells i think.

The 7Xl would be about the same rpm range on 16 cells. A 9920 controller could take this for sure. (a user on this forum uses the 7XL on 18 cells in his maxx)

But is it worth the change? If you want more power, you need to use more cells!

Mike has got the feigao 7XL motor, thought they are about 90 dollars. Those wanderers are blue in colour, the feigao's are purple, but easy to polish blinging silver.

You can just try this motor on 16 cells in your maxx, you'll be able to loose it on ebay if you don't like it enough and you can buy a more powerfull one, with a beefy controller as well.

I didnt think you could run the feigao 7XL on 20 cells? i thought you needed the BK 20XL series.

The feigao 7XL is the same as the wanderer 20XL 7 (i heard)the only differ 200 rpm/volt, due to their other measuring, i assumed you could use the wanderer specefications with the feigao's


20 cells = wanderer 8XL and if BK thinks it's okay, you should be able to use the 9920 controller. I personally would use the 36120 controller. You have got the option to upgrade to 24-26 cells and the 2240.

And yes; Feigao measures without load, or they spin the motor and see how much rpm's are needed to reach 1 volt. Lehner measures the motor under load.

ok, so wanderer 20XL (8 turn)

I know the 36120 or 20120 would be best but they are twice the price of 9920!