60 mph mamba brushless setup for e-maxx, would this work?
 

I would like to make my e-maxx hit 60 mph using the mamba maxx esc as a controller. My setup will be:
2 mamba maxx esc
2 Bk wanderer 7XL motors
Dynamite quad pack chassis from ebay
24 IB 4200SHV cells, 12 to each motor
strobe slipper geared 29/51
proline road rage tires

I have the supermaxx knucklehead towers and have lowered the truck almost to the ground. I have ran 45 mph using 970 motors and stock shock towersand had no problems handling the high speed and high centr of gravity. I have now lowered and stiffened the suspension, and I want to go for 60 mph. I also want to use the mamba maxx because of the computer tuning options for the esc. I plan to use the software to tone the torque of the motors. Would this work or am I fixing to see some major fireworks? I already have the batteries, do not suggest lipo, I am not comfortable with them.

What is the preoccupation with dual brushless motors lately? Running two motors won't necessarily make the truck go faster. Especially considering that you are talking about running XL motors with only 12 cells each. The motors won't be turning very high rpms and they'll have to be moving all of that battery weight.

Perhaps a better way to go about it, with the equipment that you mentioned, would be to run a single 7XL on 15 or 16 cells, depending on what your MM can handle. I have one that will do 5S lipo very comfortably.

I will not run more than 12 cells through each esc. The limit is 12 cells (3 lipo) for a reason. Yes people have run more that through them, but my experience with overcelling speed controllers is that while they may take the extra voltage at first, eventually the speed control will fry. Besides, assuming identical motors, 2 motors on 12 cells will be more powerful than 1 motor on 15 or 16 cells. In addition having 2 motors compared to 1 motor means each motor will have half the torque load, and will heat up less.
The reason dual brushless is an attractive idea is it allows a person to step in to the world of high powered brushless at an attractive cost. A user can purchase a lower power brushless at a relative low cost, and then when deciding to add more power, the user can get another one of the lower power lower cost brushless systems, run them together, and have a higher powered system. The idea is that running 2 low powered systems have the power of a high power system, and the user does not have to spend a ton on a low power system and a high power system, when the low power system will be placed in a box doing nothing. It is a much more cost effective method
In my case, I am going straight for higher power, but I am going dual mamba maxx because I run my truck in many different conditions, and so my application demands the use of the mamba maxx's computer tuning abilities.

Besides, I do not think 1 XL can reach 60 mph in an e-maxx.

I would rather put 24 cells on one xl motor.

Oooook, sounds to me like you need to do some research.

Furthermore, I'm not sure if I really like your tone. (maybe this is just me?) You come in here asking for help, then you basically tell everyone what to do. :032: This is generally not a way to ask for help. The folks here are VERY knowledgeable and will help you out. You plan has some major flaws and displays a lack of understanding of BL systems and how to plan one.

Your main point seems to be cost, but you can do what you want even if you buy a Quark and a 10XL, and you'd be saving money over 2 MM systems. However, you want to do it with two MM's, so good luck with that.

One last thing, your "make money fast" signature is pure and simple spam. You might want to remove it before a moderator does it for you.

Sleeb

I would rather use one single XL motor and make the truck as light as possible. it will be more agile than with 24 cells and 2 14oz heavy motors.

Not to mention the stress it will put on the drivetrain; plain simple; it's about the power/weight ratio. one single XL motor is more than enough in terms of power/torque to launch your truck at warp speed in the blink of an eye.

60mph might sound cool, but it takes quite some expensive upgrades to be a solid ride..

Te dynamite chassis is poop, it's a cheap molded chassis. (gpm quality) get the FLM instead, you can put cells on top and bellow the chassis as well. there are special braces available that make it work.

Thanks for suggesting the flm chassis. It looks great. I do know I will be needing to strengthen my drivetrain. I have MIP cvd shafts, an aluminum rear diff case, and will also be buying the steel idlers. I still would really like to do a mamba esc setup with the computer link, besides, castle has great customer service. Based on the issue of weight, I think I will probably sell my IB 4200SHV batteries and charger and purchase 4 3800 2 series LI-MN apogee packs. How well does the voltage cutoff work on the mamba max esc. I see that it does have a setting for a 4 series lithium pack. How well do these fit in the flm chassis with 2 on each sides? I would like to fit them on top of the chassis if possible. So now I need to know if the mamba max could handle a 4 series lithium pack and a Wanderer 7XL motor.

extremexmods, yeah, they limit it to 3S for a reason. The reason is that the internal bec can only handle 3S. Just about everyone that has done a 1/8 scale conversion and is running the MM is doing so on 4S lipo. A 3S setup will draw too many amps for the battery and probably the MM to handle.

I don't run the 7XL in any of my trucks any longer. The 7XL just plain gets to hot for any sort of extended running. As I said before, the MM very comfortably handles 4S lipo. In consideration of your goal here, you'll want to go as light as possible, so you might want to consider lipo rather than li-mn. Li-Mn is heavier than lipo and every ounce counts. Whether you go lipo or limn, you'll need an approprite charger and balancer. Don't forget those and figure about $200 (or more) to get setup.

You're going to need a bec to run the electronics and a fan on the MM to help to keep it cool. For high stress running and to further help to keep temps down, I've found the addition of four 330uf, 35v capacitors to be helpful. My MM rarely gets to over 135*F.

I also go with heavier wiring. Usually some sort of high strand count 12 gauge wires for both the motor and battery connections and either hardwire the motor leads or use good connectors. I've found the 5.5mm connectors to work well, as well as using a dedicated deans plug for each motor lead (although this is a bit bulky). Replacing the wires on the esc requires the use of a good soldering iron. I know that some have managed to do it with a stick iron, but the best thing to use is a good soldering station with a 5mm chisel tip that can transfer lots of heat quickly, so that you aren't on the soldering pads too long with the heat. You should also take note that I have noticed a protective coating on the MM pcbs that covers the solder joints. It's best to scrape this away with an exacto or something. It makes the soldering a lot easier.

The MM is the best bang for the buck controller and even if you fry it and they won't warranty it, the cost is only $50 to get it fixed.

Are you just asking questions about this particular mod or is this your first conversion?

If it is your first leap into a brushless conversion, I would suggest that you do a bit of research before you just start wiring components together.

I was planning to disable the bec and use the traxxas receiver pack/charger combo. For the motors, how do the Wanderer 8XL motors work on 4 series motors when combined with the rc-monster motor clamp/heatsink.
My new setup idea:
2 mamba maxx escs, bec disabled on both
2 Wanderer 8XL motors
2 rc-monster XL can heatsink motor clamps
strobe slipper geared 29/51
flm chassis
4 apogee 2 series 3800 mah Li-Mn packs, 2 to each motor
traxxas receiver pack/charger combo
proline road rage tires
Basically I need to know if this setup would leave me with burned up motors, speed controllers, and batteries. Also, how are the proline road rage tires at very high speeds up to 60 mph? I also need to know the current draw of the Wanderer 8XL on a 4 series lithium. The limit for the apogee packs are 76 amps. I will use 2 sets of 2 2 series packs, each set for one motor.

Sorry, it still seems like twice the expense to me, for no reason. Any added benefit that you get from having the two motors will be negated by the the parasitic effect of the extra weight and the fact that both motor/esc setups won't be running completely in sync with each other. Aside from that, I don't think that you'll ever get that muc power to the ground.

Take a lesson from the drag racing guys. It's all about reducing weight, not necessarily adding power. Many drag racers that I know opt for the MM 4600 or 5700 motor with moderate gearing, rather than the 7700.

Your setup will look cool though.

I havn't done dual in a long time, but I'll throw this out there..

I had two Lehner Basic 5300's on 12 cells each in my hyper7 buggy..
I later went to a single Hacker B50 8s on 16 cells, and the power was about the same, cost less, and weighed less..
I know those aren't very good examples, as both were out of the rpm spec, but from my experience, you're better off with one motor, than two less powerfull motors.

After reading the responses, I have made a major change of plans. I will be doing a single brushless system. I will be using the fastlane machine chassis with 16 cells (2 8 cell flat packs in side by side format). I will use the wanderer 8XL. I would still like to use the mamba maxx esc. I also would like to use the supermaxx differentials. Will these differentials work with the fastlane machine chassis and the driveshaft it comes with?

With the 8XL, you might just want to try starting off with 14 cells. That's about the equivalent of 4S lipo. You're going to be surprised with the performance.

On another note, I can understand your caution when it comes to using lithium polymer. It can be intimidating. You could look to the A123 cells, which are readily available in dewalt 36v battery packs. You get 10 cells in a pack and that would make for a nice 5S2P setup. With a lipodapter, you could use a plain old nimh charger to charge the pack. The A123s won't explode or catch fire like lipo will, but are capable of amazing current levels and with the right charging setup, will charge in about 15 minutes or so.

Now we're talkin'! :) However, I think (personally) that running 16 cells on one MM is really pushing the limits. They way to efficiency on a MM system is voltage, and yes, 16 cells is a good idea....but the reliability of the MM ESC at 16 cells is questionable. Some folks have no problem, others smoke 'em. I think it's just the luck of the draw and manufacturing variances. I'd go for a purpose-built ESC at that point (Quark).

I'm not too sure about the 8XL either. I don't think I'd go lower than a 9XL, and I'd most likely use a 10XL. Generally the larger the truck, the lower KV you want. You gain speed by gearing it up and adding voltage. You are already past the limit on voltage, so your only solution is gearing. This is why a different ESC is needed. Getting to 60 MPH takes a LOT of power, and I'm not sure if the MM will deliver reliably for you.

Sleeb

Would the Warrior 9920 work or would I need the Warrior 12020. Where can I get them and how much do they cost?

I used the 9920 on my 8XL/16 cells powered savage. I did use a fan on it though.

Sounds like the 12020 is better. Can someone tell me where to get one and how much. I would have liked to buy one here but they are not sold here anymore.

It's not said the 12020 will be cooler than the 9920!

I just saw the MGM 16016 (160 amps, 16 cells). Is this a good speed control for my application? Also, if I used the heatsink motor clamp, would I be able to use the 7XL and 16 cells? Assuming the same max rpm as the feigao (50,000 rpm), and a kv rating of 2145 rpm, it should handle just under 24 volts. 16 cells is 19.2 volts. I have heard people used this with 5 series lipo.

The Feigao/wanderer series are most happy (cool temps) around 35,000 rpm. With that voltage, a 9XL would be a better choice. In another thread, MGM is coming out with some very nice new ESC's, so it might be wise to wait for those. :)

Sleeb

Well said. And yes the Dynamite chassis is POOP! Do the FLM. At speed, the added length (not to mention strength) of the FLM will be a HUGE benefit! If your shooting for "WARP" speed the G-Maxx chassis would be even better.

Sleebus: I don't think I would spend extra on the latest speed control if the older model would work. I do not race, I just need something to get the truck running and not let smoke, the older MGM is good enough for me.

Procharged: I do not like the G-maxx chassis because the low ground clearance, my supermaxx towers already lower this thing almost to the ground. Also, everything I hear about G-maxx is that they make great products, but they are easy to bend and not for bashing. Besides, I can't afford them. Fastlane machine is the way to go for me.

The FLM chassis is nice! I own one myself, and for similar reasons.

I already did this 8mos ago w/ my BL Revo. You will get ~45mph w/ the 8XL on 16cells.

Now this is alot of power, and its very fun to drive, but if your big/only goal is to do 60, then you need to ~2x the power. On 5s Lipo/8Xl/MM i did 48-49 mph reliabiably. My conversion parts were light, but this was a stock 2.5 chassis and talons. Dropping weight I could see 50-51 I'm sure. This is the very edge of what a MM can do.

To get to 60, I would say you need ~2500+W for an avg/light Maxx. My 5S setup was ~1800W realisticially. As speed goes up, each increase in power shows diminishing results.

You will need an expensive drivetrain to do this as well. G/l trying to keep the front down. The MM cannot provide enough power unless you get your truck to insanely light weight (~7.5 or less I would think, but just a guess.)

An MGM/Neu may do it. I would try to run as much voltage as possible with a low kv motor and gear tall.

This is not a budget project btw. Face up to spending the $$, or realign your goals w/ your budget.

Making a 60mph truck does not make sense for bashing either. Dragsters do not make good daily drivers. Low 40s is plenty for bashing. Trust us, we've done it, we know. I barely even run my 5S batts, and that's only on the street for speed runs. Even 35 is fast on rough bashing sites like contruction lots.

Johnnymaxxima used 2 7XL motors on 5s lipo to each. Would the same motors with 16 cells to each, full metal transmission, supermaxx differentials, and MIP cvds geared 24/51 be a setup to reach 60? I really do not have the money to get lithium. Is the extended center driveshaft that comes with the Fastlane Machine chassis compatible with supermaxx differentials?

What experience have you got with brushless?

xmods, what you're stating with a dual system with 32 cells (not to mention the supermaxx diffs) sounds expensive and heavy, and not efficient. if you're dropping that kind of change, i'd take the suggestions/advice offered and go with a single, good system.

i would also go with supermaxx cvds and not MIP. they're only $10 more a set, but are much more durable.

Dude, your talking FIVE AND A HALF POUNDS of batteries including bars, and solder. All in all probably TEN POUNDS of truck or more. I don't think you'll see more than 45 Mph with any motor that will actually fit in there.

Nope, one single setup is the way to go; but i think he has got no idea what power is waiting.. :)

Here is what lightweight does with 5S of poor quality lipo's. Good lipo's will give you about 20-25 percent more power..;
http://rc.stuurmijmail.nl/flicks/emaxx%205S.wmv

Get you a mgm 32120 and motor with good kv rating. Not sure with out doing
research. Put 5s on each side and let the fun begin. That would be my plan for a 60 mph truck. Good luck on drive line parts.

I was just looking around and now I see how hard 60 mph is to reach, so I decided to drop my goal down to 50 mph. Could this be reached using 12 cells and the mtroniks genesis truck combo? Mtroniks claims 80kph on their website, which converts to 50 mph. Just how accurate are their claims? I hear their customer service is great. What size feigao motor is this equal to, and what size shaft does it have? The website says 600 size motor, but how does that compare to 540XL? Would this be a good setup for a stock e-maxx? I have decided to stay with a stock length chassis setup so I can keep using my rollcage. I am using the 2 speed transmission, I will not always be in second gear, but will spend most time in first gear and shift in to second only when I decide to go for a short speed run. I am seriously considering this combo, anyone who has it (Mtroniks Genesis Truck esc and Mtroniks Plasma Truck 600 motor) please tell me if I will need 5mm pinions or 1/8" pinions. Also, would this motor work with the rc monster heat sink motor clamp? Also, would this motor fit the stock e-maxx mounting plate? This setup also is attractive to me with the waterproof esc because I live in an area that has lot of rainy days (over 200 per year), and I want to have plenty of days to drive my truck.

Can anyone reply? Thanks.

Promod has been 50 mph on 12cells. He ran a 2240. I not sure exactly how much of a difference that makes.

that was with an XL3100. the 50mph on his 2240 took him 4S.

So what about the mtroniks combo? Is it any good? What pinions would I use?

The Mtronks are nice enough controllers, i have one in my Rustler. Just they are not rated that high amp/volt wise (80A/12cells), and are not that programmable (not like a MM.) The MM is rated higher, easier to find/service and no more expensive. 12cells/80A does not add up (techically multiply ;) ) to a lot of wattage.
To get max speed out of it you can try a huge motor like above, or I've seen people that run high hv L motors wich can go fast, Just they run hot. I thought RCM Mike had an article where they put an 8L into an MT and broke 50 mph on 4S. I have doubts about doing that on 12 cells.

This is still a dragster, its not going to be that reliable for bashing. careful not to fry the motor/esc

Using 12 cells and a Mamba Max esc, could I use the wanderer 6XL? I know for a fact I will stick with a 12 cell setup. I see on the feigao motor chart (same as stats for tbe BK Wanderer) the Feigao 540 6XL has a max amp rating of 110, would this be constant? Also, on the kershaw designs website I see they have motor bearings rated for 70,000 rpm and 100,000 rpm. What would happen in real life with those rpm speeds?

Dude, based on your limited knowledge, cashflow, and experience. I would start with a nice 38-42 MPH setup. Driving an emaxx at 40 MPH is no picnic and takes a lot of control. Use the MM control, 4s lipo, UBEC, and an 8 or 9XL with proper gearing. Baby step this thing or you will end up dissapointed. Promod and any of the other guys that made 60 MPH didn't do it as their first or even second setup. Take some time, do it right and you will be much more satisifed in the end.

My personal opinion (I have a mechanical & electronic engineering background) is that the XL motors and in particular the 540/550 sized motors are too large to spin t those extreme rpms. The balancing on the motors would have to be much more precise and even then there would be problems. Smaller motors can spin faster with better success.

Remember too that hi-rpms are VERY requiring on the ESC as well. Processing at 75,000rpm is far more demanding (and not possible on certain ESC's) that at 25,00rpm.