Comparisons on some brushless controllers!!!
 

Yesterday I ran the Traxxas VXL-3S and the results were not good. My set up is:

Mr.C's MBX5T electric conversion
Airtronics MX-3
Airtronics 92836 receiver
Rx pack
Hitec HS-945MG servo
2 2200mAh 11.1V (Parallel 4400mAh testing this while waiting for the 5000mAh packs)
3656 size motor 2600kV
51T spur
15T pinion
NOTE: Almost all ESC will have reverse disabled accept the Actronic and the Schulze's.

The VXL-3S didn't seem to start as good as it did while in the air. On the ground, it cogged really bad. I had to give a little push for it to get going. When I got home, I opened the ESC just to see if there was anything wrong. Found one of the MOSFET was at the point of burning. The VXL-3S had a fan installed and it was cool after the 3mins or so before it stopped. Next I will run the MM with the same set up to see if I can get a different result.

So the velineon controller apparently has heat issues and the programming is not that good. I was not impressed with it compard to my mamba max esc. Not as smooth and the brakes were not as progressive.

Actually the VXL-3S didn't overheat. It just stopped working after 3mins. I just noticed the data from my DPR-II-150 is a bit fuzzy. I will see if I can do something about that for the other controllers. After I test the MM, I will go ahead and try the MGM 16016-3S.

Poor construction maybe? My vxl ruster ran very hot with a 4000 3s lipo and stock gearing. I was not impressed with its performance at all. It seemed very power hungry, but not all that powerful. It heated up the battery way more than a comparable feigao/mm system did, both geared the same, in the same weight vehicle. Runtimes were also about half of the feigao/mm setup. I think that the esc is just ineffecient.

Off the ground the VXL-3S works great, but as soon as it is on the ground it just fails in every aspect you look at it. It basically doesn't seem to switch the MOSFETs fast enough.

Mine runs great, I am running a VXL stampede with stock 3500 motor, stock gearing and both 2s and 3s 5000 mah Lipo's. The take off is about the same as the mamba's, the brakes are awsome. If you want a little, use a little, need a lot, lock them up. Even with the stock traxxas radio, control is awsome. I run it a solid 20 minutes today and the motor was 120* and the esc was 109*

I did notice one thing, if you double pumped the brakes at under 5 mph(roughly), it will jump into reverse

I guess that means I now have two esc's with that same reverse problem (vxl and mgm). guess its a good thing I lock out reverse. so far I am happy with the vxl. mine has been running at 115-120 esc and 130 for the motor. I have it in a mf2 with a 2s trakpower.

The only things I dont like are the size and no drag brake.

am i reading this right, you are running 3s in a truggy? i think that may be causing the heat

I forgot to mention my truck only weighs about 7 pounds. I ran the M.troniks and the MM before getting the VXL-3S and they ran fine. I thought the VXL-3S would do well since it is rated at 200A continuous and 320A peak. My guess it was only made to work with the light Traxxas vehicles. I drove my friend's Rustler and it was really smooth. Do you guys think the MOD1 gears might have something to do with this? Here in NJ is a bit cloudy, but I'll see if I can get some run time with the MM.

Those are good temps, your batteries may be able to handle the load better than my 3s 4000, however mine got hot (190+) on 2s with a 5000 20c battery. Maybe I had a bad esc??!!

I noticed the reverse thing too, only when I was playing in my office, not outside at speed.

I had my VXL-3S set up without reverse. Traxxas should have made a few options on the strength of the brake. You have to be a brain surgeon to get a smooth braking action going. Try your trucks with forward/brake only and see how the braking action is and post the results here.

With most radios, you don't have the range of throw in the braking area as a traxxas. Thats my guess on the lack of control on braking, I know with the stock radio it has equal throw in both directions

I will test the MM in a few minutes. Just waiting for the Rx pack to cherge. I will post the data on the run.

You can change this by reducing the throttle EPA and increasing the reverse EPA. Of course, the trigger throw doesn't change, but the signal would be more equal. Would need to have the ESC reprogrammed though.

Just came back from running the truck with the MM in it. I was waiting for the data to come up. I have to say that the MM did cog just a bit when I started, but once it got going it ran flawless. It ran cool without a fan and it seemed to be putting out more power then the VXL-3S. The batteries were just warm and when I put them on the charger they read 11.25 volts. I could have ran the truck more, but after 5+ minutes I think it shows how good the MM is compared to the VXL-3S. I will test the MGM 16016-3S later today and post the data here.

The traxxas radio's don't have the epa adjustments, I'm not worried I think i'll leave it alone for a bit

Yeah, but isn't there a 70/30 and 50/50 switch?

Just came back from running the truck with the MGM 16016-3S. The MGM is silky smooth. I only have to change the brake delay and the freewheel. It took a good second or so for the brakes to kick in. I ran a little over 5 minutes as well. The only thing I noticed is right where the power wires connect to the ESC, it ripped the shrink wrap. I also noticed that the motor got really hot. The batteries were just warm and so was the ESC. I put the batteries on the charger right now and it showed 11.41V. The data shows that the MGM was a little more efficient than the MM. Next I will try the Schulze future-18.97KWF.

How did you get 167 amps? If thats a Mr constructor truck, Does it have a center diff? or, is it like the TC3 (spur towards the rear)?

That is a Mr. Constructor truck and the spur is a lot like the TC3 in the rear, but Mr. C put a slipper clutch there as well. Awesome truck. Here are 2 videos of it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6duAnWLQlJY (Forgot the crystal LOL)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cpe_frO--Vw (That's my daughter playing soccer with her uncle, she's a ball hugger LOL)

The 167A are just spikes from full throttle. The batteries that I'm using are amazing. They are 25C rated and can handle 30C without a sweet and 50C bursts. I know it is similar to TP and FP, but with a big difference, they don't puff. They run cooler and deliver the power much better. I will be getting the 5000mAh packs hopefully by Wed.

what cells are those?

Thats what i figured. I got mine in a Kyosho twinforce with a 2250 and 19/51 gearing, Even with 6s i can't get more than 124 amps with a center diff

The Schulze future-18.97KWF ran awful. Only 9 seconds and it stopped. Lets just say it has a little heating issue. One good thing I should mention, it is as smooth as the MGM on start ups.

Are you using the eagletree? I too have not been able to go beyond 124 amps with the eagle tree, IIRC it is only rated for 100 amps. I don't think that lutach is using an eagletree but some other power analyzer....


Bye

I'm using a BNB Products DPR-II-150. It is rated for 150, but it's reading beyond that all the time. Blaine from BNB also said, "The best way to measure high current is to add a calibrated shunt across the DPR's current sensor." Which I have no idea what it means.

Yeah, a micro model

What exactly is a DPR-II-150? Any links?

A shunt is simply a very low and very precise resistor placed in series between the source and the load. Usually looks like a thick wire. When current flows through it, a small voltage drop is generated, which can be measured with a simple voltmeter. The trouble is selecting the right size shunt value so that you can get a good reading, yet small enough not to suck up too much of your voltage. And then there is the power dissipation factor. I wouldn't want to drop more than 0.1v at 200A. Even at 0.1v and 200A, the shunt would have to be rated for at least 20w.

BTW: Eagletree does make an add-on sensor that measures up to 300A, but isn't explicitly said to be compatible with the micro e-logger. IIRC, it is for the other recorder unit.

Brian,

It is BNB Products, I typed BNP. Here is the link: http://www.bnbproducts.com/

I have to admit, I was a little scared trying my Schulze 18.97KWF. Good thing it only thermaled. I reset it and it is working fine.

lol, no wonder I couldn't find it! Judging by how it's built, it looks like adding a shunt across the solder points of the red wires should work. Although, you'd have to know the value of the existing shunt so that you calculate the total resistance (both shunts would be in parallel). The easiest way to do this would be to find out what the existing one is and get another one (maybe even from BNB?). Then, all you'd have to do is mentally multiply whatever reading you get by two to get the real current.

I see. Man I wish I had gone to Electronic Engineering School.

Me too! : )

Thanks, I'll look into getting one

I will say something strange have you thought about using 2-3 eagletree's in parallel?
Should work fine and later you can play with data from both to figure out total draw.

Ok, here is the situation. The motor that I was using for some reason got demagnetized. I will restart the comparisons with a Aveox 1412 motor. I don't know that Kv of the motor, but I will only be running 11.1V and 14.8V. My daughter just came back from PA and I'll wait until school starts to do this.

1412/1 - Kv 2932
1412/1.5 - Kv 1945
1412/2 - Kv 1466
1412/3 - Kv 1011
1412/4 -Kv 729
1412/8 -Kv 528.8
1412/16 - Kv 183

Data from www.aveox.com

With 11-15V it would be easy to find out which one you have.

It seems to be the 1412/1. It took me a while to go from motor to motor, but the one without the label seemed to balloon the tires more then the other Aveox's I have. The other ones are the 1412/1.5 and the 1412/3.

I'll be running a 13T pinion and the 51T spur, but I have 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20 and 22T pinions as well. Which one should I use for the comparison? Just want to get some inputs before starting again.

Today I drove the truck and it was a good run. I ran it just over 7 minutes with my other 2200mAh, 11.1V packs in parallel, MGM TMM 160-3s and the Aveox 1412/1y. The MGM didn't get warm at all and the lipos were the same way (Impressive), but the 1412 was a bit hot, not too hot because I could keep my finger on it for over 10 seconds. The real story here are this lipos. This tiny packs deliver some serious power. After the run I put them on the charger and it showed 11.64V and I only put 1806mAh back in them. The only problem is they are only available in 2200Mah sizes. The factory told me they are working on a larger capacity. The graph from the DPR-II-150 shows a max AMPs of 164.34A, but there were a few over 100A+ bursts. The pack didn't get warm at all. The MGM has to be the smoothest controller so far from all the controllers I've been using on this truck. I only wish my Quark 125B didn't burn. I will continue tomorrow, but with the MM and same lipos.

In your data, it looks like you stopped a couple of times. Was that on purpose or did the controller stop?

It was actually to see if everything was OK temps wise, specially for the batteries. I didn't know how they would do.